Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

You seem to be saying, Pepsuber, that a woman should attempt to "fit in" with her society by dressing as they do, so long as it isn't "overly immodest". So in America, a woman should wear a t-shirt with tight blue jeans and sneakers. That argument doesn't make sense to me.

He's not saying that, but in practice, it certainly leads to that.  Catholics need to consciously think about how to resist bad modern fashions, not find ways to conform to them.

Technically, he did:

So as long as a woman (or man) can dress according to the customs of the society in which she lives and not sin by dressing too revealingly or provocatively, she should.

There always have been and there still are objective standards for modesty in
dress. This also applies to men and boys, but moreso for women and girls.

At St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, you find posted on the entrance doors rules
for women to follow, lest they be escorted out of the building by the guards.
There are certain things that are forbidden, without any possibility of exceptions,
like tank tops, shorts, sandals, spaghetti straps (and this is Italy, home of pasta
dishes!), plunging necklines, bare backs, or shawls used to cover such things.
Not too terribly long ago, women were required to wear veils in St. Peter's.
I'm not sure when that was dropped.

I might have a few specifics wrong, but I'm going by memory. The point is,
that even in the modern climate of subjectivism, as +Williamson so aptly
explains lately, the Vatican has retained some semblance of decorum in St.
Peter's. But as far as I know, such rules do not exist elsewhere in diocesan
churches.

SSPX parishes, however, do have rules for dress. They even require men to
wear collar and tie, preferably a suit coat as well (even in the summer heat!),
and no denim anything -- pants, shirt, jacket or vest. In my experience,
SSPX parishes are much more stringent on making their rules known than
other TLM sites, like independent chapels or CMRI, for example.

There are plenty of problems in the traditional movement.

But expecting women to wear long skirts and veils to mass is NOT one of them.

The real problems [are] the infiltration of feminist attitudes in a society that is absolutely opposed to the Catholic conception of the role of women, and the pandering to those attitudes by venal clergy.

Frauds and sellouts in the trad clergy need to be held to account.

On the contrary, the expectation that women wear long skirts and veils to Mass
is most decidedly a concern for most women that I know who go to TLMs.

There are women who believe and comply, and expect the same of others.
There are women who refuse to believe, refuse to comply and don't want to be
told what they should do, and they keep coming back anyway.
There are women everywhere in between, including those who can't make
up their minds, and wear strap tops and skirts above the knee one Sunday,
then long sleeves and mid-calf skirts the next Sunday, as if it's only a matter of
how they "feel" that particular day whether or not they deign to respect the rules.

There is a lot more variation at independent chapels than at SSPX chapels.

But go to your local Novus Ordo parish and don't be surprised to see
women coming to church literally dressed for the bedroom, in negligées.
I saw one particularly offensive example and I mentioned it to the pastor, but
he refused to do anything about it, making a joke and chuckling. But why
should I be surprised, since his pet female dog (I can't use the technically correct
term here lest I be accused of profanity) was named "J-Lo." He made no
secret of joking about his b****, either. Parishoners universally thought it
was cute. I was a lone stand-out, being scandalized. But then, that wasn't my
parish, so why should I care? There is more to the story, but I can't get into
that here. Suffice it to say that I went away convinced that this must be
simply another example of God's wrath on our local churches, another
example of diabolical disorientation, and the loss of faith of entire continents
that was foretold at Fatima in context of unprecedented public, prophetic
revelation confirmed by a publicly foretold miracle for all to see, the first
and only such miracle in the history of the world.

Let those who have ears to hear, hear.

Tele,

I think Pepsuber is pulling our collective legs... or he is totally illogical, one or the other.

In another thread  Pepsuber said that :
... many Amish eat the exact same stuff that others eat. They shop at Wal-Mart, etc. (for example, if you go to the Wal-Mart in Gap, PA, right on the border between Chester and Lancaster Counties, you will see the Amish buggies parked outside).  How's that for logic?

I say: Three cheers for the eccentric dressers! Ready!

I'm trying to spot the illogic and failing. What does the Amish shopping at Wal-Mart have to do with the way Catholics ought to dress? I don't think Catholics should dress in a way that causes people to mistake them for Amish.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

You seem to be saying, Pepsuber, that a woman should attempt to "fit in" with her society by dressing as they do, so long as it isn't "overly immodest". So in America, a woman should wear a t-shirt with tight blue jeans and sneakers. That argument doesn't make sense to me.

You don't find a t-shirt and tight jeans to be immodest? Maybe that's why the argument doesn't make sense to you. :smile:

No, I DO find them to be immodest. I'm pointing out that by saying they should attempt to dress along with their society as long as it isn't "overly immodest", you're implying that t-shirts and tight jeans are ok.

Quote from: Pepsuber

 Tele,

I think Pepsuber is pulling our collective legs... or he is totally illogical, one or the other.

In another thread  Pepsuber said that :
... many Amish eat the exact same stuff that others eat. They shop at Wal-Mart, etc. (for example, if you go to the Wal-Mart in Gap, PA, right on the border between Chester and Lancaster Counties, you will see the Amish buggies parked outside).  How's that for logic?

I say: Three cheers for the eccentric dressers! Ready!

I'm trying to spot the illogic and failing. What does the Amish shopping at Wal-Mart have to do with the way Catholics ought to dress? I don't think Catholics should dress in a way that causes people to mistake them for Amish.

[/quote]

I was quoting you from another Topic, which probably not wise.

I was really beginning to wonder if you are serious about this or if you were just pulling our collective legs. It was obviously not the case.

My rather tongue-in-cheek comment was just to make the point of your illogicality.

What does the Amish shopping at Wal-Mart have to do with the way Catholics ought to dress?

Nothing really. Does Amish parking their buggies outside Walmart mean that  many Amish eat the exact same stuff that others eat? I doubt it very much. You'd have to look in their shopping trolleys, I guess. Even then you wouldn't jump to conclusions. They could be doing a kindly act for a neighbour.

Now you say

I don't think Catholics should dress in a way that causes people to mistake them for Amish.

Yet when Catholics dress like Catholics they are overly modest, if such were possible, of course.

The title of this thread is Selling Out? Rorate Caeli & SSPX Priest. I don't get it?