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Author Topic: Selling Out?  (Read 19996 times)

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Offline jmid

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Selling Out?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2012, 07:00:48 AM »
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  • I think all the talk about how to dress at mass is missing the point. Of course we should dress appropriately for mass, but what the good priest is speaking to is accepting people where they are spiritually when they first encounter us.

     Remember 99.9% of the Catholic world doesn't even know that a Traditional movement exists. If we hide from them, then how are we supposed to convert them? That's what he is talking about, not about breaking up whatever is left of Catholic culture.

    I remember when I lived in Idaho, I used to talk to a Protestant about the usual differences between Catholics & Protestants,he was fascinated by our perspective because he never heard it before. He asked me what Church I attended , I told him Immaculate Conception, and he told me, " Wow, my neighbor goes there, and they are the meanest SOBs on the planet. Their kids are mean to the other kids, once they told them that my wife is evil because she wears pants, and blah, blah, blah"
     You get the point, by not showing the love of Christ by being patient, humble, kind to the neighbors around them, they locked themselves off, thinking they are Holier, and more pure then everybody else, they are repelling people away from the Church. That is the "bastion" this particular priest is talking about.

    We have the Truth, we have the liturgy, now we need to have the Charity and Humility to not only reach out, but also to " look past" deficiencies people have when they first come home to one of our chaples. With God's grace they will fall into line.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #16 on: March 31, 2012, 08:09:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sede Catholic
    Rorate Caeli and AQ and FE and that kind of site seem to be full of people who are very dissatisfied with traditional

    Catholicism.


     :applause:
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline bernadette

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #17 on: March 31, 2012, 09:21:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: jmid
    I think all the talk about how to dress at mass is missing the point. Of course we should dress appropriately for mass, but what the good priest is speaking to is accepting people where they are spiritually when they first encounter us.

     Remember 99.9% of the Catholic world doesn't even know that a Traditional movement exists. If we hide from them, then how are we supposed to convert them? That's what he is talking about, not about breaking up whatever is left of Catholic culture.

    I remember when I lived in Idaho, I used to talk to a Protestant about the usual differences between Catholics & Protestants,he was fascinated by our perspective because he never heard it before. He asked me what Church I attended , I told him Immaculate Conception, and he told me, " Wow, my neighbor goes there, and they are the meanest SOBs on the planet. Their kids are mean to the other kids, once they told them that my wife is evil because she wears pants, and blah, blah, blah"
     You get the point, by not showing the love of Christ by being patient, humble, kind to the neighbors around them, they locked themselves off, thinking they are Holier, and more pure then everybody else, they are repelling people away from the Church. That is the "bastion" this particular priest is talking about.

    We have the Truth, we have the liturgy, now we need to have the Charity and Humility to not only reach out, but also to " look past" deficiencies people have when they first come home to one of our chaples. With God's grace they will fall into line.


    I totally agree....I've been around those that are critical of NO Catholics...they become smug and self-satisfied, say uncharitable things...this is about having an understanding of the unusual time we live and the necessity to somewhat overlook deficiencies while trying to welcome and convert...it is easier to attract people by appearing normal by today's standards, than appearing like a weird cult...I've always said a woman can look modest yet elegant, if not stylish.

    Offline PaulLuke

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #18 on: March 31, 2012, 09:22:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: jmid
    Remember 99.9% of the Catholic world doesn't even know that a Traditional movement exists. If we hide from them, then how are we supposed to convert them? That's what he is talking about, not about breaking up whatever is left of Catholic culture.


    I think this is incredibly important. I had never heard about Traditional Catholicism until about a month ago. I hadn't even heard of a Tridentine Mass. And I've always been a practicing (granted, NO) Catholic! It was only on a blog that I heard about the Mass, and when I eventually decided I was interested to try it out I found information on FE, which is what brought me to Traditional Catholicism.

    I have noticed that a lot of people have the holier-than-thou mindset, and this often leads them to form said "bastions." Traditional Catholicism will never just become Catholicism again if we don't allow liberal Catholics to know that there are those who disagree with some, most, or all of Vatican II.

    Offline s2srea

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 09:33:48 AM »
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  • Well I think there's a balance. No one is saying to be uncharitable to newcomers, though yes, it exists. But you can find uncharitable people anywhere. Is it not uncharitable for a NO priest to scold someone who is kneeling during mass(it happened to my friend)? No. But its also not charitable to kick a woman out of mass, I think, if she's wearing pants for the first time to a TLM, and doesn't know better. If she's wearing a hoochie mamma skirt, and tube-top shirt that shows everything, that's different.


    But this priest is really wrong for scolding women in the Trad movement who dress with modesty. Apparently all of us here who were not born into a trad Chapel weren't repulsed by it, right? The people who say they are are using that as a smoke screen. They just don't like Catholocism. There's a saying in my industry, which is sales: "If someone is ready to buy, there's nothing you can do to convince them not to. If someone isn't ready to buy, there's nothing you can say to convince them to."

    And in regards to people seeing this 'holier than thou mindset'; could this be a revealing of someone's pride? Perhaps a form of envy, or jealousy? I think it could, perhaps. St. Thomas recognized that there wasn't just a bilateral level of Catholicism. There is an infinite scale which the soul could climb on its way to interior perfection. It wasn't just, 'on' or 'off'. If one see's the development of a soul who is indeed 'holier', they should try to prevent themselves from scorning that, or from projecting their own negative vision on that person who is, by his very nature, advanced in the spiritual life.




    Offline s2srea

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #20 on: March 31, 2012, 09:39:21 AM »
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  • Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?

    The people at the FishEaters forum, have yet to figure this out, in my humble opinion. They seem to continue on with placing importance on trendiness, being into sports, and being able to sound really a la mode. Its pretty immature actually. Though I find nothing wrong with joking or having a good time, its also okay to be reserved. I find a good mixture of that here. In my limited experience, I've seen little reservation there. There are my 2 cents, which are worth nothing.

    Offline bernadette

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #21 on: March 31, 2012, 09:55:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?  No, that is ridiculous...no wonder people think that the SSPX'ers are cult members...believe you me, I've heard it said by outsiders.....that isn't the type of criticism a traditional Catholic needs.  Since when has being a Catholic meant that we have to dive off the deep end into prudish, stern, sour-faced early American Protestantism?  

    Great Catholic women have always dressed beautifully...I will give Queen Isabella of Spain as an example:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LEZVADmDZ1U/Tlr4vNI_pfI/AAAAAAAAB3g/c2PEoteBkPU/s1600/Isabella+II+of+Spain+1865.jpg

    Beautiful, elegant and stylish for the day...here is a modern photo:
    http://static.photaki.com/spanish-mantilla-clad-women-and-scapular_427860.jpg

    How beautiful...it sure beats this:
    http://nowscape.com/mormon/images/polyg_women_TX.jpg

    Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.

    Offline s2srea

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #22 on: March 31, 2012, 10:04:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: s2srea
    Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women AND men been forced to see perversion in the dress of secularized and sɛҳuąƖized women.

    No one is asked to dress any way, but modestly.

    And your examples are not very good ones. There are guidelines given to us for how to dress, its up to us, with the guidance of our priests, to focus on modesty.

    Why did you use a picture of polygamist mormon's as your example of how trad women dress? Do they dress that way at your Chapel?


    Offline s2srea

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #23 on: March 31, 2012, 10:05:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: bernadette

    Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.


    Perhaps this is a 'reset' of style for society.

    Offline bernadette

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    « Reply #24 on: March 31, 2012, 10:22:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: s2srea
    Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women AND men been forced to see perversion in the dress of secularized and sɛҳuąƖized women.

    No one is asked to dress any way, but modestly.

    And your examples are not very good ones. There are guidelines given to us for how to dress, its up to us, with the guidance of our priests, to focus on modesty.

    Why did you use a picture of polygamist mormon's as your example of how trad women dress? Do they dress that way at your Chapel?


    Some do...not as extreme...but the general idea.  Sure, it was an extreme photo, but let's not be influenced by such perverted a look.

    Offline bernadette

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    Selling Out?
    « Reply #25 on: March 31, 2012, 10:24:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: bernadette

    Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.


    Perhaps this is a 'reset' of style for society.


    Perhaps what is a 'reset'?  There has never been a time in history, when society has reverted back to another age in their mode of dress.


    Offline bernadette

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    « Reply #26 on: March 31, 2012, 10:26:05 AM »
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  • There is an intelligent middle ground that can be reached.  Modesty and style are two different things.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #27 on: March 31, 2012, 11:36:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: s2srea
    Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?  No, that is ridiculous...no wonder people think that the SSPX'ers are cult members...believe you me, I've heard it said by outsiders.....that isn't the type of criticism a traditional Catholic needs.  Since when has being a Catholic meant that we have to dive off the deep end into prudish, stern, sour-faced early American Protestantism?  

    Great Catholic women have always dressed beautifully...I will give Queen Isabella of Spain as an example:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LEZVADmDZ1U/Tlr4vNI_pfI/AAAAAAAAB3g/c2PEoteBkPU/s1600/Isabella+II+of+Spain+1865.jpg

    Beautiful, elegant and stylish for the day...here is a modern photo:
    http://static.photaki.com/spanish-mantilla-clad-women-and-scapular_427860.jpg

    How beautiful...it sure beats this:
    http://nowscape.com/mormon/images/polyg_women_TX.jpg

    Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.


       This has to be one of the dumber posts ever to appear on this forum.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline bernadette

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    « Reply #28 on: March 31, 2012, 11:39:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: s2srea
    Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?  No, that is ridiculous...no wonder people think that the SSPX'ers are cult members...believe you me, I've heard it said by outsiders.....that isn't the type of criticism a traditional Catholic needs.  Since when has being a Catholic meant that we have to dive off the deep end into prudish, stern, sour-faced early American Protestantism?  

    Great Catholic women have always dressed beautifully...I will give Queen Isabella of Spain as an example:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LEZVADmDZ1U/Tlr4vNI_pfI/AAAAAAAAB3g/c2PEoteBkPU/s1600/Isabella+II+of+Spain+1865.jpg

    Beautiful, elegant and stylish for the day...here is a modern photo:
    http://static.photaki.com/spanish-mantilla-clad-women-and-scapular_427860.jpg

    How beautiful...it sure beats this:
    http://nowscape.com/mormon/images/polyg_women_TX.jpg

    Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.


       This has to be one of the dumber posts ever to appear on this forum.


    Point out what is dumb so I can think about it...will you?

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #29 on: March 31, 2012, 11:44:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: s2srea
    Also, to the comment of trad women looking modest yet still being able to be stylish- I would ask then: Is this then a case of style? Apparently so. And if it is, why is this priest, if he is speaking to the same thing, so concerned with style? If people haven't figured it out, there is something about being a traditional Catholic which is innately 'counter-would'. If some of that bleeds out into the 'style' of clothing one wears, what's wrong with that?


    Never before in the history of the Church have Catholic women not dressed in the mode of the day...the "style" of the day if you will...now, suddenly, Catholic women have to dress like they belong on the set of "Little house on the Prairie"?  No, that is ridiculous...no wonder people think that the SSPX'ers are cult members...believe you me, I've heard it said by outsiders.....that isn't the type of criticism a traditional Catholic needs.  Since when has being a Catholic meant that we have to dive off the deep end into prudish, stern, sour-faced early American Protestantism?  

    Great Catholic women have always dressed beautifully...I will give Queen Isabella of Spain as an example:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LEZVADmDZ1U/Tlr4vNI_pfI/AAAAAAAAB3g/c2PEoteBkPU/s1600/Isabella+II+of+Spain+1865.jpg

    Beautiful, elegant and stylish for the day...here is a modern photo:
    http://static.photaki.com/spanish-mantilla-clad-women-and-scapular_427860.jpg

    How beautiful...it sure beats this:
    http://nowscape.com/mormon/images/polyg_women_TX.jpg

    Catholic's have always set the style for society...and the moral standards along with it.


       This has to be one of the dumber posts ever to appear on this forum.


    Point out what is dumb so I can think about it...will you?


       That a Catholic would have any concern whatever for modern fashions.

       If you are perturbed that Catholic women can't show their boobs and thighs, too bad for you.

       Our Lady warned us that these immoral fashions would come.

       Yet it never occurs to you that the reason trads are "stuck in the 1950's" with their attire is because that is as close to the modern times as you can get without violating Catholic norms of modesty and femininity.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."