Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: SeanJohnson on June 24, 2023, 02:35:57 PM
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Does anyone recall this guy?
He was a Chinese who apparently was serious about heading some kind of secession movement in China, and declaring it a Catholic republic or something like that?
The Chicoms took him seriously, and he was never heard from again.
Does anyone recall who I'm talking about?
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Yes, I remember him but not his name. If I recall, he was arrested for reasons related to the Faith.
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Guess we should be praying for him. :pray:
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Pang Jian AKA JacobPius
https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/JacobPius/
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/the-great-monarch-arrives-in-china)!/msg830909/#msg830909
Jacob Pius: Chinese “Traditionalist Catholic” Remains in Jail
06/17/2022LAI MINGXIA (https://bitterwinter.org/author/lai-mingxia/)
https://bitterwinter.org/jacob-pius-chinese-traditionalist-catholic-jailed/ (https://bitterwinter.org/jacob-pius-chinese-traditionalist-catholic-jailed/)
A young Catholic with a sense of humor proposed to establish a traditional Catholic monarchy in a part of China. The CCP was not amused. He was arrested in January 2021 and is still in prison.
by Lai Mingxia*
*Massimo Introvigne contributed details on the non-Chinese movements mentioned by “Jacob Pius”
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/coat-of-arms-of-the-traditional-Catholic-monarchy-of-Yuyencia.jpeg)(https://i.imgur.com/Ft2sK7B.jpg)Proposed coat of arms of the traditional Catholic monarchy of Yuyencia, designed by Jacob Pius. From Weibo.
“Viva Cristo Rey.” The slogan was the symbol of the Cristero ιnѕυrrєcтισn of 1926 against the anti-clerical Mexican Republic, and resonates with conservative Catholics throughout the world to this very day. To hear it repeated in China in the 21st century is another matter entirely.
In 2014, a young man signing “Jacob Pius” surfaced in Chinese social media advocating for the independence of a “country” he called Yuyencia (幽燕西亚), which would include part of present-day Hebei, Beijing, and Tianjin. He supported the creation of Yuyencia with theories about the mythical Chinese first dynasty Xia.
His arguments appeared so far-fetched that many suspected they were proposed tongue-in-cheek, although the young man should have been aware that advocating separatism in China is not a matter for jokes but a crime punished with heavy jail penalties.
In subsequent years, “Jacob Pius” explained that, although other religions will be tolerated, Yuyencia will have Roman Catholicism as the state religion and will be ruled according to the model of traditional Catholic monarchies.
“Jacob” mentioned the 19th and early 20th century French monarchist theorists and the traditionalist Carlist branch of the monarchist movement in Spain as his sources of inspiration. He also stated that present-day Catholicism is largely contaminated by the “modernist heresy” and will not be able to supply the official state doctrine of Yuyencia. This will rather be “traditionalist” Catholicism. Again, this was totally unusual in China—and dangerous, since advocating “counter-revolutionary” ideologies is also a crime.
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/flag-of-the-kingdom-of-Yuyencia.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GQPmZH8.jpg)Proposed flag of the kingdom of Yuyencia.
Some netizens doubted that “Jacob Pius” was serious. Others believed it had derived his ideas from Liu Zhongjing, who emerged on the web in the early 2000 and was known by the nickname “Auntie” (阿姨). His ideology was called “Auntology” and was inspired by German nationalist philosopher Oswald Spengler, who died in 1936. Liu theorized that China, since the Qing, had become a fallen project, and it would be preferable that it disintegrates into autonomous independent states, whose borders can be reconstructed based on ancient Chinese history. Some of his remarks were racist and anti-Islamic, and Liu expressed his admiration for European right-wing and anti-immigration parties.
The fact that he was not put in jail and, while criticized, even invited to debate CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) scholars, is evidence of the limited tolerance that existed before Xi Jinping (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/xi-jinping/)—and at the same time of the fact that Liu’s brand of right-wing extremism was not regarded as really dangerous. When Xi Jinping (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/xi-jinping/)came to power, Liu was smart enough to see the writing on the wall on time and escape to the United States.
“Jacob Pius,” however, remained in China. “Gao Yang” is a Catholic human rights (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/human-rights/) activist who was interviewed by Hong Kong and Western media in 2019 and 2020 under this assumed name, and supplied information about the persecution in Hebei of Catholic “conscientious objectors” who rejected the Vatican-China deal of 2018 (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/vatican-china-deal-of-2018/). Bitter Winter has learned that “Jacob Pius” and “Gao Yang” are one and the same person. His real name is Pang Jian, and he was born in Baoding city, Hebei province (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/province/), in 1991. He is a resident of Gaobeidian, a county-level city (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/county-level-city/) under the jurisdiction of Baoding city, and has published as “Gao Yang” on Hebei history and folklore.
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Pang-Jian.jpeg)Pang Jian, aka “Jacob Pius.” From Weibo.
That Pang Jian alias Gao Yang alias Jacob Pius is a conservative Catholic is true, although where he derived his passion for European Catholic monarchist and counter-revolutionary Catholicism from remains unclear. It is also difficult to distinguish what theories he advocates seriously, and what he just proposes as paradoxes and social experiments of sort.
On these matters, however, the CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) always prefers to be on the safer side. On January 15, 2021, Pang was detained by the Gaobeidian police, and taken to the Gaobeidian Detention Center (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/detention-center/). On January 28, 2021, he was formally arrested and charged with “separatism,” a very serious offense. His friends have no information about his trial, if any, although it is believed it is still in the Gaobeidian prison.
The independence of Yuyencia may have been a joke. But the CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) reaction is deadly serious.
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Great find, Emile. Thank you.
Yes, we must pray earnestly for him.
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Pang Jian AKA JacobPius
https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/JacobPius/
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/the-great-monarch-arrives-in-china)!/msg830909/#msg830909
Jacob Pius: Chinese “Traditionalist Catholic” Remains in Jail
06/17/2022LAI MINGXIA (https://bitterwinter.org/author/lai-mingxia/)
https://bitterwinter.org/jacob-pius-chinese-traditionalist-catholic-jailed/ (https://bitterwinter.org/jacob-pius-chinese-traditionalist-catholic-jailed/)
A young Catholic with a sense of humor proposed to establish a traditional Catholic monarchy in a part of China. The CCP was not amused. He was arrested in January 2021 and is still in prison.
by Lai Mingxia*
*Massimo Introvigne contributed details on the non-Chinese movements mentioned by “Jacob Pius”
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/coat-of-arms-of-the-traditional-Catholic-monarchy-of-Yuyencia.jpeg)(https://i.imgur.com/Ft2sK7B.jpg)Proposed coat of arms of the traditional Catholic monarchy of Yuyencia, designed by Jacob Pius. From Weibo.
“Viva Cristo Rey.” The slogan was the symbol of the Cristero ιnѕυrrєcтισn of 1926 against the anti-clerical Mexican Republic, and resonates with conservative Catholics throughout the world to this very day. To hear it repeated in China in the 21st century is another matter entirely.
In 2014, a young man signing “Jacob Pius” surfaced in Chinese social media advocating for the independence of a “country” he called Yuyencia (幽燕西亚), which would include part of present-day Hebei, Beijing, and Tianjin. He supported the creation of Yuyencia with theories about the mythical Chinese first dynasty Xia.
His arguments appeared so far-fetched that many suspected they were proposed tongue-in-cheek, although the young man should have been aware that advocating separatism in China is not a matter for jokes but a crime punished with heavy jail penalties.
In subsequent years, “Jacob Pius” explained that, although other religions will be tolerated, Yuyencia will have Roman Catholicism as the state religion and will be ruled according to the model of traditional Catholic monarchies.
“Jacob” mentioned the 19th and early 20th century French monarchist theorists and the traditionalist Carlist branch of the monarchist movement in Spain as his sources of inspiration. He also stated that present-day Catholicism is largely contaminated by the “modernist heresy” and will not be able to supply the official state doctrine of Yuyencia. This will rather be “traditionalist” Catholicism. Again, this was totally unusual in China—and dangerous, since advocating “counter-revolutionary” ideologies is also a crime.
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/flag-of-the-kingdom-of-Yuyencia.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GQPmZH8.jpg)Proposed flag of the kingdom of Yuyencia.
Some netizens doubted that “Jacob Pius” was serious. Others believed it had derived his ideas from Liu Zhongjing, who emerged on the web in the early 2000 and was known by the nickname “Auntie” (阿姨). His ideology was called “Auntology” and was inspired by German nationalist philosopher Oswald Spengler, who died in 1936. Liu theorized that China, since the Qing, had become a fallen project, and it would be preferable that it disintegrates into autonomous independent states, whose borders can be reconstructed based on ancient Chinese history. Some of his remarks were racist and anti-Islamic, and Liu expressed his admiration for European right-wing and anti-immigration parties.
The fact that he was not put in jail and, while criticized, even invited to debate CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) scholars, is evidence of the limited tolerance that existed before Xi Jinping (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/xi-jinping/)—and at the same time of the fact that Liu’s brand of right-wing extremism was not regarded as really dangerous. When Xi Jinping (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/xi-jinping/)came to power, Liu was smart enough to see the writing on the wall on time and escape to the United States.
“Jacob Pius,” however, remained in China. “Gao Yang” is a Catholic human rights (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/human-rights/) activist who was interviewed by Hong Kong and Western media in 2019 and 2020 under this assumed name, and supplied information about the persecution in Hebei of Catholic “conscientious objectors” who rejected the Vatican-China deal of 2018 (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/vatican-china-deal-of-2018/). Bitter Winter has learned that “Jacob Pius” and “Gao Yang” are one and the same person. His real name is Pang Jian, and he was born in Baoding city, Hebei province (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/province/), in 1991. He is a resident of Gaobeidian, a county-level city (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/county-level-city/) under the jurisdiction of Baoding city, and has published as “Gao Yang” on Hebei history and folklore.
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Pang-Jian.jpeg)Pang Jian, aka “Jacob Pius.” From Weibo.
That Pang Jian alias Gao Yang alias Jacob Pius is a conservative Catholic is true, although where he derived his passion for European Catholic monarchist and counter-revolutionary Catholicism from remains unclear. It is also difficult to distinguish what theories he advocates seriously, and what he just proposes as paradoxes and social experiments of sort.
On these matters, however, the CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) always prefers to be on the safer side. On January 15, 2021, Pang was detained by the Gaobeidian police, and taken to the Gaobeidian Detention Center (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/detention-center/). On January 28, 2021, he was formally arrested and charged with “separatism,” a very serious offense. His friends have no information about his trial, if any, although it is believed it is still in the Gaobeidian prison.
The independence of Yuyencia may have been a joke. But the CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) reaction is deadly serious.
Thanks Emile!!
I can’t find any updates; anyone else have any luck?
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Thanks Emile!!
I can’t find any updates; anyone else have any luck?
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I doubt we'll ever hear anything about him again. :(
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I doubt we'll ever hear anything about him again. :(
I seem to recall Mith corresponding with him? Any word Mith?
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(https://i.imgur.com/r3kGDrt.png)
Screen grab of a Jan. 21, 2019 Hong Kong television interview of activist and writer Pang Jian, who has been detained since January on suspicion of "splitting the country" in Hebei's Gaobeidian city.
https://pressnewsagency.org/catholic-writer-activist-detained-for-inciting-secession-in-chinas-hebei/
https://www.csw.org.uk/2021/09/27/press/5422/article.htm
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/writer-detained-07052021182111.html
His detention came after he reported on forced demolitions and evictions in rural areas around Beijing, Tianjin and Hebei, his father Pang Jingxian told RFA in a recent interview.
"They have been doing coronavirus testing around here lately, and he went to line up [to get tested]," Pang Jingxian said. "Somehow, I'm not sure exactly how, the police detained him while he was there."
"Then the police came and searched our home, looking through Pang Jian's stuff," he said. "They took it all away, and we didn't hear anything for a while."
Later, police sent a notice of detention and a notice of formal arrest to Pang Jingxian, and were dated Jan. 15 and Jan. 28 respectively, Pang's father said.
"After they notified me, I went to visit him a few times, but we haven't heard anything since then," he said.
According to the notice of detention, Pang Jian was criminally detained on suspicion of "inciting secession" at 11.00 a.m. on Jan. 15, 2021.
Both notices gave his place of detention as Gaobeidian Detention Center.
Chen Taihe, a human rights lawyer, said that the first trial of Pang Jian’s case was to be held in the intermediate court, indicating that the authorities were preparing to impose a heavy sentence.
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Pang Jian AKA JacobPius
https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/JacobPius/
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/the-great-monarch-arrives-in-china)!/msg830909/#msg830909
Jacob Pius: Chinese “Traditionalist Catholic” Remains in Jail
06/17/2022LAI MINGXIA (https://bitterwinter.org/author/lai-mingxia/)
https://bitterwinter.org/jacob-pius-chinese-traditionalist-catholic-jailed/ (https://bitterwinter.org/jacob-pius-chinese-traditionalist-catholic-jailed/)
A young Catholic with a sense of humor proposed to establish a traditional Catholic monarchy in a part of China. The CCP was not amused. He was arrested in January 2021 and is still in prison.
by Lai Mingxia*
*Massimo Introvigne contributed details on the non-Chinese movements mentioned by “Jacob Pius”
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/coat-of-arms-of-the-traditional-Catholic-monarchy-of-Yuyencia.jpeg)(https://i.imgur.com/Ft2sK7B.jpg)Proposed coat of arms of the traditional Catholic monarchy of Yuyencia, designed by Jacob Pius. From Weibo.
“Viva Cristo Rey.” The slogan was the symbol of the Cristero ιnѕυrrєcтισn of 1926 against the anti-clerical Mexican Republic, and resonates with conservative Catholics throughout the world to this very day. To hear it repeated in China in the 21st century is another matter entirely.
In 2014, a young man signing “Jacob Pius” surfaced in Chinese social media advocating for the independence of a “country” he called Yuyencia (幽燕西亚), which would include part of present-day Hebei, Beijing, and Tianjin. He supported the creation of Yuyencia with theories about the mythical Chinese first dynasty Xia.
His arguments appeared so far-fetched that many suspected they were proposed tongue-in-cheek, although the young man should have been aware that advocating separatism in China is not a matter for jokes but a crime punished with heavy jail penalties.
In subsequent years, “Jacob Pius” explained that, although other religions will be tolerated, Yuyencia will have Roman Catholicism as the state religion and will be ruled according to the model of traditional Catholic monarchies.
“Jacob” mentioned the 19th and early 20th century French monarchist theorists and the traditionalist Carlist branch of the monarchist movement in Spain as his sources of inspiration. He also stated that present-day Catholicism is largely contaminated by the “modernist heresy” and will not be able to supply the official state doctrine of Yuyencia. This will rather be “traditionalist” Catholicism. Again, this was totally unusual in China—and dangerous, since advocating “counter-revolutionary” ideologies is also a crime.
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/flag-of-the-kingdom-of-Yuyencia.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GQPmZH8.jpg)Proposed flag of the kingdom of Yuyencia.
Some netizens doubted that “Jacob Pius” was serious. Others believed it had derived his ideas from Liu Zhongjing, who emerged on the web in the early 2000 and was known by the nickname “Auntie” (阿姨). His ideology was called “Auntology” and was inspired by German nationalist philosopher Oswald Spengler, who died in 1936. Liu theorized that China, since the Qing, had become a fallen project, and it would be preferable that it disintegrates into autonomous independent states, whose borders can be reconstructed based on ancient Chinese history. Some of his remarks were racist and anti-Islamic, and Liu expressed his admiration for European right-wing and anti-immigration parties.
The fact that he was not put in jail and, while criticized, even invited to debate CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) scholars, is evidence of the limited tolerance that existed before Xi Jinping (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/xi-jinping/)—and at the same time of the fact that Liu’s brand of right-wing extremism was not regarded as really dangerous. When Xi Jinping (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/xi-jinping/)came to power, Liu was smart enough to see the writing on the wall on time and escape to the United States.
“Jacob Pius,” however, remained in China. “Gao Yang” is a Catholic human rights (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/human-rights/) activist who was interviewed by Hong Kong and Western media in 2019 and 2020 under this assumed name, and supplied information about the persecution in Hebei of Catholic “conscientious objectors” who rejected the Vatican-China deal of 2018 (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/vatican-china-deal-of-2018/). Bitter Winter has learned that “Jacob Pius” and “Gao Yang” are one and the same person. His real name is Pang Jian, and he was born in Baoding city, Hebei province (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/province/), in 1991. He is a resident of Gaobeidian, a county-level city (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/county-level-city/) under the jurisdiction of Baoding city, and has published as “Gao Yang” on Hebei history and folklore.
(https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Pang-Jian.jpeg)Pang Jian, aka “Jacob Pius.” From Weibo.
That Pang Jian alias Gao Yang alias Jacob Pius is a conservative Catholic is true, although where he derived his passion for European Catholic monarchist and counter-revolutionary Catholicism from remains unclear. It is also difficult to distinguish what theories he advocates seriously, and what he just proposes as paradoxes and social experiments of sort.
On these matters, however, the CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) always prefers to be on the safer side. On January 15, 2021, Pang was detained by the Gaobeidian police, and taken to the Gaobeidian Detention Center (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/detention-center/). On January 28, 2021, he was formally arrested and charged with “separatism,” a very serious offense. His friends have no information about his trial, if any, although it is believed it is still in the Gaobeidian prison.
The independence of Yuyencia may have been a joke. But the CCP (https://bitterwinter.org/Vocabulary/ccp/) reaction is deadly serious.
I hope his persecution will increase the true faith in China and elsewhere. :pray:
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Just asked some people about him and checked some articles, yep, still in jail charges pending. I don't know how religious he really was but his propaganda... obviously too much Paradox Interactive games. Not worth it to get into jail for this historical fantasy larp. Real guts to do independence movement in mainland China so I have respect for that.
https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/yataibaodao/renquanfazhi/sc-07032021191825.html
http://cppc1989.blogspot.com/2022/06/cppc01151.html?m=1
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I hope his persecution will increase the true faith in China and elsewhere. :pray:
I hope so too but I doubt it. It's not even "persecution".
I think only some people who also support the independence movement will sympathise with him to a certain degree.
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Being a Christian living China is persecution.
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Prayers for him. He'd be more valuable if he talked about you-know-who. Catholic states were only once possible because a huge number of Catholic laity and Church leaders were unapologetically anti-you-know-who. No Catholics who are infected with the ideas of this people will set up any Catholic state.
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Just asked some people about him and checked some articles, yep, still in jail charges pending. I don't know how religious he really was but his propaganda... obviously too much Paradox Interactive games. Not worth it to get into jail for this historical fantasy larp. Real guts to do independence movement in mainland China so I have respect for that.
https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/yataibaodao/renquanfazhi/sc-07032021191825.html
http://cppc1989.blogspot.com/2022/06/cppc01151.html?m=1
If you really want to know how really religious he was (is he dead? lost the faith?) there's this:
https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=6045
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If you really want to know how really religious he was (is he dead? lost the faith?) there's this:
https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=6045
I could see a statement of faith. And? Only God knows people's heart.
I think he's alive. Not sure about losing the faith because I wonder if he would be sent to reeducation camp or if the government used his parents to force him to sign certain things opposing to the faith.
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I could see a statement of faith. And? Only God knows people's heart.
I think he's alive. Not sure about losing the faith because I wonder if he would be sent to reeducation camp or if the government used his parents to force him to sign certain things opposing to the faith.
Yes what you say here is correct. I just was wondering about the need for such disparaging remarks in your previous posts. Glad we've cleared that up.
Is it not persecution to be held prisoner without charge, even without the other atrocities that he may be subjected to?
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Yes what you say here is correct. I just was wondering about the need for such disparaging remarks in your previous posts. Glad we've cleared that up.
Is it not persecution to be held prisoner without charge, even without the other atrocities that he may be subjected to?
Ah, I mainly meant not religious persecution. Political persecution it is indeed.