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Author Topic: How does anyone like The Chosen?  (Read 11385 times)

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Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2024, 11:26:01 AM »
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  • Yes, Our Lord had 2 natures, the divine nature and the human nature, definitely. But his personality was that of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, his personality was divine, not human. For instance, you never see Jesus laugh in the Gospels. He never said, like in The Chosen "The Son of man..... [...], that's me, by the way!" 🤦
    You are confusing the meanings of Persona (πόστασις, prostasis) and Natura (φύσεις, physis). Persona in theological Greek (and Latin) does not meaning what the word "person" means in English. What you have written of our Lord is at best heterodox or at worst heretical. Go back and read the Christological teaching of Council of Chalcedon. Our Lord is fully God and fully human (2 prostasis), without confusion or degradation of the two natures, grounded in a single physis.

    And your explanation for the miracle of the Virgin birth is not Church teaching binding on anyone, but merely pious opinion -- which I happen to share but I know that it is not doctrine, just opinion.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #31 on: February 21, 2024, 01:59:06 PM »
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  • You are confusing the meanings of Persona (πόστασις, prostasis) and Natura (φύσεις, physis). Persona in theological Greek (and Latin) does not meaning what the word "person" means in English. What you have written of our Lord is at best heterodox or at worst heretical. Go back and read the Christological teaching of Council of Chalcedon. Our Lord is fully God and fully human (2 prostasis), without confusion or degradation of the two natures, grounded in a single physis.

    And your explanation for the miracle of the Virgin birth is not Church teaching binding on anyone, but merely pious opinion -- which I happen to share but I know that it is not doctrine, just opinion.
    Oy veh! Even I present the Incarnate Word backwards here!

    It should read:

    Our Lord is fully God and fully human (2 physis), without confusion or degradation of the two natures, grounded in a single prostasis.

    🤦‍♂️
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline songbird

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #32 on: February 21, 2024, 03:45:45 PM »
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  • This is why the world is with war and destruction:  Because the world will not accept the Incarnation

    Offline Dominique

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #33 on: February 22, 2024, 06:51:49 PM »
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  • "his [His] personality was divine, not human"

    That statement is the heresy of the monophysites.  Our Lord was just as human (excepting He did not sin) as He was divine.

     And yes, I have no doubt that Our Lord laughed.  All humans laugh.
    If you look at the Baltimore Catechism, and the catechism of St Pius X, and the catechism of the Summa Theologica, they all say the same thing: "Christ is a divine Person having the nature of God and the nature of man" (Baltimore Catechism No 3, question 83). I repeat, Our Lord had the human nature and the divine nature and His Person was divine, the second person of the Blessed Trinity 
    Laughing can be argued. But it has been argued by many saints that laughing is somewhat of an imperfection, and that Our Lord didn't laugh. Furthermore, if it was important for us to know that Jesus laughed, it would have been in the Gospel. 

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #34 on: February 22, 2024, 07:01:50 PM »
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  • I’ve never heard that laughing is an imperfection.  Wouldn’t crying be as well?  Yet Our Lord did weep.  


    Offline Dominique

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #35 on: February 22, 2024, 07:19:51 PM »
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  • I’ve never heard that laughing is an imperfection.  Wouldn’t crying be as well?  Yet Our Lord did weep. 
    Well, weeping for our sins is not an imperfection I guess. The laughing argument isn't of faith, it's just the opinion of certain saints. Laughing presupposes some surprise or the capacity to be amused by something you didn't know, so I guess that is the argument. St Thomas More and others were of that opinion, which remains an opinion only of course. ☺️

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #36 on: February 22, 2024, 07:33:56 PM »
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  • If you look at the Baltimore Catechism, and the catechism of St Pius X, and the catechism of the Summa Theologica, they all say the same thing: "Christ is a divine Person having the nature of God and the nature of man" (Baltimore Catechism No 3, question 83). I repeat, Our Lord had the human nature and the divine nature and His Person was divine, the second person of the Blessed Trinity
    Laughing can be argued. But it has been argued by many saints that laughing is somewhat of an imperfection, and that Our Lord didn't laugh. Furthermore, if it was important for us to know that Jesus laughed, it would have been in the Gospel.
    You persist in an erroneous notion of "person" that, rooted in Decartes and Kant, equates personhood with subjective behaviour characteristics as the word is used colloquially in English.

    In theology, "Person" means an
    individual substance, separate and distinct from all other substances of the same kind, possessing itself and all the parts, attributes, and energies which are in it. The Personhood of Jesus Christ is the divine substance shared equally and undivided with the Father and the Holy Ghost. It is not Jesus' incarnated behaviour which is grounded in His unfallen human nature.

    The divine and human natures are united without confusion or subordination of one to the other in the one Person of Jesus Christ. He is fully divine and fully human. As St. Paul teaches, our Lord is like us in all things except sin.

    At times you slide variously into monophysitism, miaphysitism, and monothelitism. You have been corrected, Dominique. If you persist in your erroneous claim regarding Christology, you will have to be regarded as a formal heretic.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #37 on: February 22, 2024, 07:38:53 PM »
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  • I’ve never heard that laughing is an imperfection.  Wouldn’t crying be as well?  Yet Our Lord did weep. 

    Always fittingly. Never as a one marred by original sin. The Chosen blurs those lines and not out of ignorance either, I suspect.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus


    Offline Dominique

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #38 on: February 22, 2024, 07:53:08 PM »
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  • You persist in an erroneous notion of "person" that, rooted in Decartes and Kant, equates personhood with subjective behaviour characteristics as the word is used colloquially in English.

    In theology, "Person" means an
    individual substance, separate and distinct from all other substances of the same kind, possessing itself and all the parts, attributes, and energies which are in it. The Personhood of Jesus Christ is the divine substance shared equally and undivided with the Father and the Holy Ghost. It is not Jesus' incarnated behaviour which is grounded in His unfallen human nature.

    The divine and human natures are united without confusion or subordination of one to the other in the one Person of Jesus Christ. He is fully divine and fully human. As St. Paul teaches, our Lord is like us in all things except sin.

    At times you slide variously into monophysitism, miaphysitism, and monothelitism. You have been corrected, Dominique. If you persist in your erroneous claim regarding Christology, you will have to be regarded as a formal heretic.
    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #39 on: February 22, 2024, 07:57:42 PM »
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  • 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
    Quod est demonstrandum. ^ ^ ^
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: How does anyone like The Chosen?
    « Reply #40 on: February 22, 2024, 07:58:32 PM »
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  • Laughing can be argued. But it has been argued by many saints that laughing is somewhat of an imperfection, and that Our Lord didn't laugh. Furthermore, if it was important for us to know that Jesus laughed, it would have been in the Gospel.

    There is pure laughter in guileless delight at the goodness of Creation and Divine Providence. (See also, for a mortal example: Isaac, "he who laughs".) As to the last sentence, Saint John the Evangelist said (paraphrasing) that were all that Christ had done and said to be written down, it would take many more stacks of pages than are already in the Gospels.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus