Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: jmid on September 02, 2013, 01:01:34 PM
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My cousin, who was married for over 20 years with two children, divorced her husband shortly after her father died. She immediately started dating another man, moved in with him, applied for and received an annulment from the “Church” and is now going to re-marry. We just received an invitation to the “wedding”
I was devastated when I first learned of her leaving her husband. The whole family loved him; he actually converted to the faith from one of the Protestant Sects. I am God father to one of their children.
This annulment and “wedding” raises some questions and emotions in my mind. (Please excuse the rambling)
1. As I understand it, an Annulment means that the marriage never actually took place. I was at her first wedding (I was in the wedding party) , visited their home many times etc. If they were not married, than maybe I’m not married, my parents aren’t married, nobody’s married !?!?!…how the hell are we supposed to know who the heck is married ???? This is just a clear example of Catholic Divorce.
2. This Annulment, in my mind , takes away the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo hierarchy , the “Church” is actually taking part in and is putting its stamp of approval on adultery. Wow, Im just sooo ticked off
3. I can’t go to this ceremony for obvious reasons; my wife is suggesting that we should go to the reception only. I don’t think so because in my mind, how could I celebrate someone choosing to commit a mortal sin? Not attending this fiasco, is going to cause bad blood in the family, and will shut down any chance of some of them converting to Tradition. I will be seen as the “holier than thou” a_ _ hole who just won’t get with the times. After all “The Church” says it is OK who are you to say otherwise ???
4. I still have to decide how to turn down the invitation. Do I just lay it out there? Say nothing? Go out of town? I’m still working this out…..the other thing that ticks me off is her putting us this position, I mean can’t she just go to Vegas, or have a small wedding with just her immediate family, instaed of making us choose?? uRRRRg
Please pray for me to have the courage to do what’s right !!!
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Erm... as far as I understand it. A marriage can be enacted without a priest in emergencies ( I got that from the dimonds website). So if it has been contracted, then it is indossulable, and she is cheating on her husband.
Or committing adultery, whatever you choose to call it.
I had a relative who did the same thing, she divorced her husband with whom she had 2 kids, I was at her wedding as a child, i was young and loved this member of my family and i cried as they made their vows.
now everytime i think of it i feel stupid because she broke it off in the end.
now she is with someone else and had plans to marry but they are on hold because of domestic issues and they don't get along.
moral of the story is, she cant choose a man properly, she had problems with our father as i also have and i am his most hated son, but she has a narcissism complex and is the furthest thing from catholic.
So this person you talk about is not Catholic, they just claim the name for social advantage, but there is nothing Catholic about them.
I say cut her off, she will only try to poison you with her BS.
Don't go to the wedding, say "I went to one of your weddings before and you broke it off with that man, Im not taking you seriously on this issue because i think you wont stick with whoever you move on with and the fact is because i am a catholic by beliefs tell me that i cant go to your wedding because i commit a sin by doing it, because its wrong what you did and i wont go and celebrate adultery, that's the way God sees it so im not going."
and then say
"BTW, how many times are you going to get married, why do you call yourself a catholic if you don't believe in what it stands for, and do you think you can suck me into your atheist filth by getting me to agree with your lifestyle?? No. Get real. Im not talking to you until you want to become Catholic."
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My cousin, who was married for over 20 years with two children, divorced her husband shortly after her father died. She immediately started dating another man, moved in with him, applied for and received an annulment from the “Church” and is now going to re-marry. We just received an invitation to the “wedding”
I was devastated when I first learned of her leaving her husband. The whole family loved him; he actually converted to the faith from one of the Protestant Sects. I am God father to one of their children.
This annulment and “wedding” raises some questions and emotions in my mind. (Please excuse the rambling)
1. As I understand it, an Annulment means that the marriage never actually took place. I was at her first wedding (I was in the wedding party) , visited their home many times etc. If they were not married, than maybe I’m not married, my parents aren’t married, nobody’s married !?!?!…how the hell are we supposed to know who the heck is married ???? This is just a clear example of Catholic Divorce.
2. This Annulment, in my mind , takes away the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo hierarchy , the “Church” is actually taking part in and is putting its stamp of approval on adultery. Wow, Im just sooo ticked off
3. I can’t go to this ceremony for obvious reasons; my wife is suggesting that we should go to the reception only. I don’t think so because in my mind, how could I celebrate someone choosing to commit a mortal sin? Not attending this fiasco, is going to cause bad blood in the family, and will shut down any chance of some of them converting to Tradition. I will be seen as the “holier than thou” a_ _ hole who just won’t get with the times. After all “The Church” says it is OK who are you to say otherwise ???
4. I still have to decide how to turn down the invitation. Do I just lay it out there? Say nothing? Go out of town? I’m still working this out…..the other thing that ticks me off is her putting us this position, I mean can’t she just go to Vegas, or have a small wedding with just her immediate family, instaed of making us choose?? uRRRRg
Please pray for me to have the courage to do what’s right !!!
I'd have nothing to do with it.
As you say it is a joke when a marriage of 20 years is declared a non-marriage. A clear example of Catholic Divorce. Therefore I would treat it as exactly that. If your cousin had gotten divorced you would not go to the wedding or reception. In reality this is no different so be consistent.
Should you tell her why? Personally I would not. She is not going to listen, she is not going to cancel the wedding or divorce the new husband, presumeably she is in her 40s so this is a last chance hurrah. There is no upside for you or her. In your shoes I would just make my excuses. "I have married a wife, bought me a cow". Or in her new "husband's" case you can probably reverse that.
Sad times. We just have to deal with them.
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jmid, whatever you do, don't listen to the "Catholic" advice of someone who says he's going to "turn his membership badge in" (that's ggreg)
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I think that you should have nothing to do with it. In these cases of bogus annulments there is really no difference between them and divorce and I think they should be treated like divorce because the conciliar church gives annulments so often that many of them have to be bogus. I wonder if a woman who gets a bogus annulment and then remarries commits sin or is the sin wholly on the Novus Ordo entity that gave the bogus annulment? I think the woman who gets the annulment sins also, but I am not sure because I am not qualified to answer that question.
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I would think she does. Few people married for 20 years could, with clear conscience, believe they were never married. People know whether they were married or not.
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I think that you should have nothing to do with it. In these cases of bogus annulments there is really no difference between them and divorce and I think they should be treated like divorce because the conciliar church gives annulments so often that many of them have to be bogus. I wonder if a woman who gets a bogus annulment and then remarries commits sin or is the sin wholly on the Novus Ordo entity that gave the bogus annulment? I think the woman who gets the annulment sins also, but I am not sure because I am not qualified to answer that question.
An annulment doesn't depend on how long a couple has been married but on whether or not the conditions for validity existed.
Probably the conditions for validity did exist, but you're not in a position to know for certain. Still you should warn the person that annulments do not dissolve valid marriages, and if they are based on false ideas of what constitutes validity and invalidity then they are bogus.
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Thanks guys for the replies
TCat , your so right, I was there for her first Wedding, how many more are there going to be??
Greg- The reply is the crux of the issue in my mind, I think your correct, she is never going to listen , its just what excuse do I give? If I go with my true thoughts that will only make it worse. If she just divorced and remarried , then it would be easy to say, "Hey you know we are Catholic and can't attend" But by the Church giving it's blessing makes that really difficult, trying to explain all the Traditional arguments makes it sound like I'm being more "Catholic than the Pope"
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This from a NO website
There are three basic requirements for a valid Catholic wedding:
The couple must be capable of being married—that is, they must be a woman and a man who are free of any impediment that would prevent marriage.
The couple must give their consent to be married — that is, by an act of their will they irrevocably give and accept one another in order to establish marriage (Canon 1057).
They must follow the canonical form for marriage—that is, they must be married according to the laws of the Church so that the Church and the wider community will be certain about the validity of their marriage.
- See more at: http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/rules-requirements.htm#sthash.r6Ov5H7x.dpuf
The new church doesn't even follow it's own rules !!! But Anyway they did fulfill these requirements, I'm curious as to what reason the NO gave to dissolve a Valid marriage??
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:surprised:
Don't go to this "wedding" or reception. Tcat is right. I have a cousin on whom I spent over $500 in wedding gifts. When I received an invitation to wedding number four, I simply declined with no explanation, and reserved a campsite for that weekend in a place 120 miles away. I'd arrange for some other "commitment" on that day. If others don't like it, too bad. It is wrong to hold you accountable for hearts already hardened. How likely these people would convert if you DID go? If you see her at other family functions :alcohol:, be civil, polite, "vewy nithe" and refuse to discuss the matter. I have numerous relatives in similar situations. After awhile, most cut off contact of their own volition.
Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword. (Mt. 10:34)
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...its just what excuse do I give?
I think Frances's comments above are best as far as this is concerned.
Of course, you could also tell them that you have an appointment with a traditional priests that day to make a general confession.
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Thanks guys for the replies
TCat , your so right, I was there for her first Wedding, how many more are there going to be??
Greg- The reply is the crux of the issue in my mind, I think your correct, she is never going to listen , its just what excuse do I give? If I go with my true thoughts that will only make it worse. If she just divorced and remarried , then it would be easy to say, "Hey you know we are Catholic and can't attend" But by the Church giving it's blessing makes that really difficult, trying to explain all the Traditional arguments makes it sound like I'm being more "Catholic than the Pope"
Why not win a free holiday at the time of the wedding?
I'm sure you can think of something.
If you really want to be honest, just politely and calmly say that you really liked her husband number 1 and you would find it too upsetting and troubling to sit there and think about how their 20 year marriage was not really a marriage at all, (as you sensibly said, if it wasn't then what marriage is?), and moreover it would confuse the heck out of your kids and make them doubt the credibility of Catholic teaching on marriage. She presumably can understand that according to 2000 years of history annulments were not handed out like confetti. In fact, Britain went through hundreds of years of pain and suffering, martyrdom and torture over a King being refused an annulment. What was the point of all that?
At least this MIGHT sew a seed of doubt in her and she could repent before she dies. I doubt it though.
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:surprised:
Don't go to this "wedding" or reception. Tcat is right. I have a cousin on whom I spent over $500 in wedding gifts. When I received an invitation to wedding number four, I simply declined with no explanation, and reserved a campsite for that weekend in a place 120 miles away. I'd arrange for some other "commitment" on that day. If others don't like it, too bad. It is wrong to hold you accountable for hearts already hardened. How likely these people would convert if you DID go? If you see her at other family functions :alcohol:, be civil, polite, "vewy nithe" and refuse to discuss the matter. I have numerous relatives in similar situations. After awhile, most cut off contact of their own volition.
Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword. (Mt. 10:34)
Yes, this is the best advice.
Annulling the marriage is ridiculous when children are involved. If the marriage doesn't exist. Then the children were born out of wedlock?
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The Novus Ordo hierarchy doesnt have respect for the holy Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman or the Holy orders.
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The Novus Ordo hierarchy doesnt have respect for the holy Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman or the Holy orders.
The Novus Ordo hierarchy doesn't have respect for any of the Holy Sacraments! But their distain for these two in particular is very strange.
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Not really strange at all. If you can allow Catholics to get divorced and remarried and still feel "right" with the Church then they'll keep paying those Dollars, Pesos, Euros and Pounds when they attend mass, which many will to salve their consciences.
If they get divorced and re-marry outside the church; more than likely the income stream dries up from those Catholics. People don't contribute or attend where they don't feel welcome.
The number of divorced and remarried Catholics putting money in the plate every Sunday must greatly outnumber all the Traditionalists in the world of every colour. And it probably outnumbers all the Traditionalists and the Conservatives lumped together as well.
That is a lot of money. There are lawsuits to settle, they need the cash. Make no mistake, money drives a LOT of decisions.
As for Holy Orders I don't want to even discuss their possible motivations having read Stephen Brady's RCF and Randy Engel's accounts of what goes on in the seminaries, and episcopal palaces around the world. If we weren't so used to it by now, and unfortunately we're all acclimatised and somewhat jaded, it would turn our stomachs daily.
I had to give Engel's book away after reading it cover to cover and the person I gave it to could not finish it.
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:really-mad2:
An older lady-friend of mine found herself alone after 34 years of marriage and seven adult children. Her husband ran off with a 23 year old co-ed. How he got the marriage annulled, I do not know. Bribery?
He came to a sad-end only 18 months after the "wedding." He had a stroke, his second "wife" left him, his children disowned him. He died alone in a hospital after refusing a priest sent by his first and legitimate "ex-wife."
:sad:
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Length of marriage is not a factor. The conditions at the time of marriage are. My parents were married only a short time, had been divorced for almost twenty years, my mother is not Catholic and could have cared less (but she did fill out the forms they sent her) and they denied my father's petition.
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Ggreg
You are so right, iys all about the Benjamins, they (the NO Hierarchy) Could care less about saving souls and avoiding scandal.
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Length of marriage is not a factor. The conditions at the time of marriage are. My parents were married only a short time, had been divorced for almost twenty years, my mother is not Catholic and could have cared less (but she did fill out the forms they sent her) and they denied my father's petition.
After 34 years and seven children I am amazed anyone can honesty remember the conditions at the time of their marriage.
Sometimes I forget the names of my clients and have to wing-it for a few minutes when they call me; before it pops into my head.
Can anyone remember 1979? JP2 was the new Pope and I was playing Atari Space Invaders with my brother and bought myself a pair of Nike training shoes for running which none of my school friends had ever seen. That's about it.
If valid marriage is a contract between two people then the length they remain together should have an implication on the validity. If two business people had been sharing profits for 30 years and then went before judge and suggested there was never a contract; he would laugh them out of court. A contract would be implied by the length of time they had been in business.
The only way I could see a 34 year marriage with 7 children being invalid is if there was an objective impediment, like a prior marriage, or one partner had spent 34 years chained in a basement dungeon.
Asking two biased people at least one of whom wants to split, how they felt 34 years ago and basing a decision on that is just silly.
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I was reading the other day about how even if one of the spouses doesn't have an explicit understanding of what marriage is, even that isn't enough for an annulment. In the normal practices of the Church, it really seems like the main cause of annulment was mistaken identity (like marrying the wrong person out of twins) or where someone truly wasn't free to marry in the first place.
The idea that someone can receive an annulment because they didn't 'get it' when they made their vows seems to be thoroughly conciliar, so far as I can tell.
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I know on one hand that the NO hands out annulments like candy and many of them must be based on false principles. But at the same time there are scads of people getting married without proper formation and intentions. So there are also many, many people whose annulments are real. It's a vicious cycle that has opened the door to horrendous abuse. But unless a person knows the intimate details of another's formation and mind at the time of marriage, it is difficult to know which annulments are real in the eyes of God and which are just Catholic divorce.
After 20 years of marriage and a couple of children it really seems like just an excuse to run off with someone else. Although the length of marriage is not an absolute indicator of validity, I do agree with ggreg that it makes a case for validity and should require strong evidence otherwise.
It's a lot like the birth control issue, we know by the overall numbers that Catholics are definitely contracepting, but there's no way of knowing that on an individual level unless they talk about it. You risk a lot of damage and it generally isn't advisable to approach anyone about it based on pure looks because who knows what other factors may be involved.
I would just make my excuses and bow out without saying much, but maybe I'm a coward, I don't know. Maybe there will be a time in the future during a heart to heart that the door will open for you to mention your reservations. I would not be 100% opposed to such a conversation, you never know if it will plant a seed for conversion if it is needed, but I would choose the time and method very carefully.
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When I have a chance, I'll post what I was reading about the other day-- but I do not think that an anullment can be granted simply because one or both parties was not properly catechized in Catholic marriage-- in fact, I believe I read the opposite, that EVEN IF one or both parties do not understand that marriage is forever, that is not grounds for an annulment. More later.
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When I have a chance, I'll post what I was reading about the other day-- but I do not think that an anullment can be granted simply because one or both parties was not properly catechized in Catholic marriage-- in fact, I believe I read the opposite, that EVEN IF one or both parties do not understand that marriage is forever, that is not grounds for an annulment. More later.
I would be interested to see this. I was thinking along the lines of Catholic couples who intend to contracept. I thought they do not contract a valid marriage but I can't say where I got this idea, whether from a solid source or not, it's just always been in my mind. If true it would include a large portion of the NO population.
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But at the same time there are scads of people getting married without proper formation and intentions.
That must have pretty much always been the case.
Plenty of people throughout history have been CINO and blasé about the whole thing. They just happened to live in countries and periods of history where 'marriage' was Catholic marriage and divorce/annulment was impossible for all but the richest few and women had no option to leave their husbands or do much about a philandering one.
In the middle Ages did the love-struck star-crossed lovers, the peasant farmhand and the milkmaid, the sailor and the barmaid really have a proper formation and intentions? Could they have explained the primary and secondary purpose of marriage to you or I or passed a basic penny Catechism test? I doubt it very much and this is why.
In Catholic England when Henry wanted his 18 year marriage to Catherine annulled the VAST majority of the wholly Catholic population went along with it, and then another five "wives" and four divorces (or beheadings) in short order.
There were not protests in the street condemning Henry for being a degenerate. He was a well liked King. 99% of people just accepted it. He was the King, it was his business. Why rock the boat?
One would suppose there should be some sort of angst if most Catholic married couples at that time really had a 'proper formation and intentions' about their own marriages. After all this is why good Catholics object to annulments and divorce now because every marriage annulled or broken denigrates the perceived value of what marriage is. We "Get It" Middle-agers were certainly smart enough to understand this too.
The proper intention is really summarised in the marriage vows. If you don't like them, don't say them. But it is nuts for most adults to take those vows and say they did not understand what they were doing.
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There are reasons other than psychic disturbance (or whatever they call it) that people get valid annulments. I know of two (under the 1917 Code) that were received in the NO Tribunals. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
"Valid annulment"--LOL
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When I have a chance, I'll post what I was reading about the other day-- but I do not think that an anullment can be granted simply because one or both parties was not properly catechized in Catholic marriage-- in fact, I believe I read the opposite, that EVEN IF one or both parties do not understand that marriage is forever, that is not grounds for an annulment. More later.
I would be interested to see this. I was thinking along the lines of Catholic couples who intend to contracept. I thought they do not contract a valid marriage but I can't say where I got this idea, whether from a solid source or not, it's just always been in my mind. If true it would include a large portion of the NO population.
I have not forgotten about this. I revisited the book today a little, and am now a bit confused. The commentators seem to distinguish between the permanency of marriage, and the indissolubility of it; and that being ignorant to the former may be grounds for annulment, but ignorance to the latter is not. I'm really not sure yet, I'll have to keep reading. In my mind, I can't seem to distinguish between the two, I see permanency and indissolubility as the same thing.
I may post some scans later, in case I'm still not sure.
As to birth control, I'm not sure that birth control use per se would be grounds for nullity, it seems more that if one of the parties never intended to have children at all in the first place (thus not contracting a union with the goal of procreation) there would be grounds for nullity, but I don't think having a 'limit' on children or even being unsure about children would nullify the marriage: I think only if one couple positively willed to never have children would that come into effect.
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It's all very subjective. Like putting someone on trial and asking them to testify for and against themselves.
If they used the pill immediately after getting married wouldn't an objective action like that reveal more about their state of mind than their witness statement 10 or 20 years after the event.
Some people get married, have a child or two, and find the whole pregnancy child birth thing so awful they make up their mind never to have another or get sterilised. I've met married couples like this who have been married 40-50 years!
I doubt many people get married thinking "I will definitely never have any children and I have told my partner this". Lots of people don't know, don't think and don't discuss it much, so their state of mind on the day they were married is impossible to assess.
All you can assess is what they witness years afterwards and AFTER a civil divorce has taken place when they either warn to get an annulment, don't care either way because they are not a Catholic or positively want to STOP the annulment.
In the UK you cannot even start the annulment process before your civil divorce is final.
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Yes, I see the difference between an intention to use contraception which is still an openness to life, just a limited one, and the decision not to have any children at all. It makes more sense and dismantles my theory that many annulments are actually valid because I think most people do actually want to have one or two kids. I guess maybe there's a part of me that wishes the situation were not as dire as it is.
ggreg, I think proper formation can mean different things in different times. We need book study now because we (mostly) are not learning by example. The vast majority of marriages around us end and we have few examples of what marriage through thick and thin actually looks like. We don't gain insight on the cycles a marriage can go through so at the first sign of an ebb we panic and think it must be over.
In other times when divorce and annulments weren't so common they would have learned by example. Yeah maybe the King was a mess but probably everyone else in their lives, family and friends, gave good examples of marriage. Even bad marriages would have been good examples, if that makes sense, because with very few exceptions those couples would still have been seen by society as married and even if they separated it wasn't license to fool around. Very few people would have known anyone who got an annulment so it would have no need to even be in anyone's vocabulary. You would have known ahead of time that if you drew a short straw with a bad marriage, you were still expected to tough it out. That being the reality of your time and society is probably a better formation than any book learning we can do from the sewer we're camped out in.
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I agree with Tcat. Good advice. Just be honest and answer the family and you will good about yourself, standing up for truth.
When couples marry, the church has files that are kept, separate from what the couples get. The record is the comments of the priest if he feels that the marriage is ok, or if he feels otherwise. Those records could be obtained by either couple and I am not sure if it goes beyond that, like a best man?
When annulments are processed, there is a price to pay. In 1998, I knew of an annulments that cost $1,000. or no go, til paid.
And yes, a reason for annulment is in writing.
My mom, a widow, Roman Catholic, decided she wanted to marry a twice divorced protestant. Things were getting hot, so mom decided to see the priest how to get hooked. The New Order priest in 1987, told my mom, go to a minister and get your marriage blessed. (get a load of that!) So, this priest and my mom decided on getting it rigged! The NO priest said, and once that is done, you can not have the sacraments, while I get the annulments for him. He can join the church, and when the annulment is approved, then come to confession and all it done. My mom did this, had my aunt's minister marry not just my mom, but my brother and his lady friend, married in my aunt's house. Even the minister did not want to be seen doing this in his unitarian church. What a scandal! I was new order at the time and I was stupid and congratulated my mom and my aunt told me, you can believe that they are truly married. In 1996 my husband and I and family went traditional and it hit me like a ton of bricks that my mom and brother and his wife of New Order did such a thing. I realized that all considered were excommunicated in the eyes of God.
I told my mom my thoughts. Mom, what was the reason for annulment. She said, Larry, the man she married, did not know that divorce is wrong and he knows different. I replied, if that is the case and he knows better, than he would not be available for marriage, right? Mom was not happy with that reply. Then I asked, and you re-married when? She did not recall the date. I thought, hm, that is right, I told her, you have been celebrating your anniversary as the date when you married at Aunt Betty's house. So, why did you re-marry? Wasn't the first one good enough? Then she looked at me and said it was her business. So, I told our children that this man Larry is not your step dad in the eyes of God. I refuse to call him dad, and just Larry. My mom and larry know how we feel and so does my brother and the rest of the family. They got very mad with me when there was the 20th anniversary. I got the invite and I told my sister we will not be mailing any card(we live many miles apart) she said, well, we have a money tree. I said, we will give no acknowledgement, for the marriage was rigged. Wow! So, I still hear from my sister, but the others don't email or call. ANd that was 9 silblings in my family. Thank God for the distance, but as a traditional catholic, I have a heavy burden to pray for them.
My one sister was married for 12 years, before she found out that her husband was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, and after 2 sons were born. She was able to prove annulment by the testimonies of my sisters in-laws. They said they knew that he was strange before they married and he married on a lie, a lie that he kept secret and if my sister would have known the truth, would she have married him, and the answer was no. That is a true annulment. Very sad! Her priest gave no consolation. NO priest said, "oh well. and that was it. Very sad.
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My cousin, who was married for over 20 years with two children, divorced her husband shortly after her father died. She immediately started dating another man, moved in with him, applied for and received an annulment from the “Church” and is now going to re-marry. We just received an invitation to the “wedding”
I was devastated when I first learned of her leaving her husband. The whole family loved him; he actually converted to the faith from one of the Protestant Sects. I am God father to one of their children.
This annulment and “wedding” raises some questions and emotions in my mind. (Please excuse the rambling)
1. As I understand it, an Annulment means that the marriage never actually took place. I was at her first wedding (I was in the wedding party) , visited their home many times etc. If they were not married, than maybe I’m not married, my parents aren’t married, nobody’s married !?!?!…how the hell are we supposed to know who the heck is married ???? This is just a clear example of Catholic Divorce.
2. This Annulment, in my mind , takes away the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo hierarchy , the “Church” is actually taking part in and is putting its stamp of approval on adultery. Wow, Im just sooo ticked off
3. I can’t go to this ceremony for obvious reasons; my wife is suggesting that we should go to the reception only. I don’t think so because in my mind, how could I celebrate someone choosing to commit a mortal sin? Not attending this fiasco, is going to cause bad blood in the family, and will shut down any chance of some of them converting to Tradition. I will be seen as the “holier than thou” a_ _ hole who just won’t get with the times. After all “The Church” says it is OK who are you to say otherwise ???
4. I still have to decide how to turn down the invitation. Do I just lay it out there? Say nothing? Go out of town? I’m still working this out…..the other thing that ticks me off is her putting us this position, I mean can’t she just go to Vegas, or have a small wedding with just her immediate family, instaed of making us choose?? uRRRRg
Please pray for me to have the courage to do what’s right !!!
Do you know what the basis for the annulment was?
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:really-mad2:
An older lady-friend of mine found herself alone after 34 years of marriage and seven adult children. Her husband ran off with a 23 year old co-ed. How he got the marriage annulled, I do not know. Bribery?
He came to a sad-end only 18 months after the "wedding." He had a stroke, his second "wife" left him, his children disowned him. He died alone in a hospital after refusing a priest sent by his first and legitimate "ex-wife."
:sad:
sad.
May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed rest in peace. Amen.
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Length of marriage is not a factor. The conditions at the time of marriage are. My parents were married only a short time, had been divorced for almost twenty years, my mother is not Catholic and could have cared less (but she did fill out the forms they sent her) and they denied my father's petition.
After 34 years and seven children I am amazed anyone can honesty remember the conditions at the time of their marriage.
Sometimes I forget the names of my clients and have to wing-it for a few minutes when they call me; before it pops into my head.
Can anyone remember 1979? JP2 was the new Pope and I was playing Atari Space Invaders with my brother and bought myself a pair of Nike training shoes for running which none of my school friends had ever seen. That's about it.
If valid marriage is a contract between two people then the length they remain together should have an implication on the validity. If two business people had been sharing profits for 30 years and then went before judge and suggested there was never a contract; he would laugh them out of court. A contract would be implied by the length of time they had been in business.
The only way I could see a 34 year marriage with 7 children being invalid is if there was an objective impediment, like a prior marriage, or one partner had spent 34 years chained in a basement dungeon.
Asking two biased people at least one of whom wants to split, how they felt 34 years ago and basing a decision on that is just silly.
How old were they at the time of the wedding?
Is it concievable that one of the parties could have felt coerced to go through with the ceremony?