Not really strange at all.  If you can allow Catholics to get divorced and remarried and still feel "right" with the Church then they'll keep paying those Dollars, Pesos, Euros and Pounds when they attend mass, which many will to salve their consciences.

If they get divorced and re-marry outside the church; more than likely the income stream dries up from those Catholics.  People don't contribute or attend where they don't feel welcome.

The number of divorced and remarried Catholics putting money in the plate every Sunday must greatly outnumber all the Traditionalists in the world of every colour.  And it probably outnumbers all the Traditionalists and the Conservatives lumped together as well.

That is a lot of money.  There are lawsuits to settle, they need the cash.  Make no mistake, money drives a LOT of decisions.

As for Holy Orders I don't want to even discuss their possible motivations having read Stephen Brady's RCF and Randy Engel's accounts of what goes on in the seminaries, and episcopal palaces around the world.  If we weren't so used to it by now, and unfortunately we're all acclimatised and somewhat jaded, it would turn our stomachs daily.

I had to give Engel's book away after reading it cover to cover and the person I gave it to could not finish it.

Length of marriage is not a factor. The conditions at the time of marriage are. My parents were married only a short time, had been divorced for almost twenty years, my mother is not Catholic and could have cared less (but she did fill out the forms they sent her) and they denied my father's petition.

 

Length of marriage is not a factor. The conditions at the time of marriage are. My parents were married only a short time, had been divorced for almost twenty years, my mother is not Catholic and could have cared less (but she did fill out the forms they sent her) and they denied my father's petition.

 

After 34 years and seven children I am amazed anyone can honesty remember the conditions at the time of their marriage.

Sometimes I forget the names of my clients and have to wing-it for a few minutes when they call me; before it pops into my head.

Can anyone remember 1979?  JP2 was the new Pope and I was playing Atari Space Invaders with my brother and bought myself a pair of Nike training shoes for running which none of my school friends had ever seen.  That's about it.

If valid marriage is a contract between two people then the length they remain together should have an implication on the validity.  If two business people had been sharing profits for 30 years and then went before judge and suggested there was never a contract; he would laugh them out of court.  A contract would be implied by the length of time they had been in business.

The only way I could see a 34 year marriage with 7 children being invalid is if there was an objective impediment, like a prior marriage, or one partner had spent 34 years chained in a basement dungeon.

Asking two biased people at least one of whom wants to split, how they felt 34 years ago and basing a decision on that is just silly.

I know on one hand that the NO hands out annulments like candy and many of them must be based on false principles. But at the same time there are scads of people getting married without proper formation and intentions. So there are also many, many people whose annulments are real. It's a vicious cycle that has opened the door to horrendous abuse. But unless a person knows the intimate details of another's formation and mind at the time of marriage, it is difficult to know which annulments are real in the eyes of God and which are just Catholic divorce.

After 20 years of marriage and a couple of children it really seems like just an excuse to run off with someone else. Although the length of marriage is not an absolute indicator of validity, I do agree with ggreg that it makes a case for validity and should require strong evidence otherwise.

It's a lot like the birth control issue, we know by the overall numbers that Catholics are definitely contracepting, but there's no way of knowing that on an individual level unless they talk about it. You risk a lot of damage and it generally isn't advisable to approach anyone about it based on pure looks because who knows what other factors may be involved.

I would just make my excuses and bow out without saying much, but maybe I'm a coward, I don't know. Maybe there will be a time in the future during a heart to heart that the door will open for you to mention your reservations. I would not be 100% opposed to such a conversation, you never know if it will plant a seed for conversion if it is needed, but I would choose the time and method very carefully.

When I have a chance, I'll post what I was reading about the other day-- but I do not think that an anullment can be granted simply because one or both parties was not properly catechized in Catholic marriage-- in fact, I believe I read the opposite, that EVEN IF one or both parties do not understand that marriage is forever, that is not grounds for an annulment.  More later.

I would be interested to see this. I was thinking along the lines of Catholic couples who intend to contracept. I thought they do not contract a valid marriage but I can't say where I got this idea, whether from a solid source or not, it's just always been in my mind. If true it would include a large portion of the NO population.

There are reasons other than psychic disturbance (or whatever they call it) that people get valid annulments. I know of two (under the 1917 Code) that were received in the NO Tribunals.  You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
 
"Valid annulment"--LOL

It's all very subjective.  Like putting someone on trial and asking them to testify for and against themselves.

If they used the pill immediately after getting married wouldn't an objective action like that reveal more about their state of mind than their witness statement 10 or 20 years after the event.

Some people get married, have a child or two, and find the whole pregnancy child birth thing so awful they make up their mind never to have another or get sterilised.  I've met married couples like this who have been married 40-50 years!

I doubt many people get married thinking "I will definitely never have any children and I have told my partner this".  Lots of people don't know, don't think and don't discuss it much, so their state of mind on the day they were married is impossible to assess.

All you can assess is what they witness years afterwards and AFTER a civil divorce has taken place when they either warn to get an annulment, don't care either way because they are not a Catholic or positively want to STOP the annulment.

In the UK you cannot even start the annulment process before your civil divorce is final.

I agree with Tcat. Good advice.  Just be honest and answer the family and you will good about yourself, standing up for truth.

When couples marry, the church has files that are kept, separate from what the couples get.  The record is the comments of the priest if he feels that the marriage is ok, or if he feels otherwise.  Those records could be obtained by either couple and I am not sure if it goes beyond that, like a best man?

When annulments are processed, there is a price to pay.  In 1998, I knew of an annulments that cost $1,000. or no go, til paid.

And yes, a reason for annulment is in writing.

My mom, a widow, Roman Catholic, decided she wanted to marry a twice divorced protestant.  Things were getting hot, so mom decided to see the priest how to get hooked.  The New Order priest in 1987, told my mom, go to a minister and get your marriage blessed. (get a load of that!)  So, this priest and my mom decided on getting it rigged!  The NO priest said, and once that is done, you can not have the sacraments, while I get the annulments for him. He can join the church, and when the annulment is approved, then come to confession and all it done.  My mom did this, had my aunt's minister marry not just my mom, but my brother and his lady friend, married in my aunt's house.  Even the minister did not want to be seen doing this in his unitarian church.  What a scandal!  I was new order at the time and I was stupid and congratulated my mom and my aunt told me, you can believe that they are truly married.  In 1996 my husband and I and family went traditional and it hit me like a ton of bricks that my mom and brother and his wife of New Order did such a thing.  I realized that all considered were excommunicated in the eyes of God.
I told my mom my thoughts.  Mom, what was the reason for annulment.  She said, Larry, the man she married, did not know that divorce is wrong and he knows different.  I replied, if that is the case and he knows better, than he would not be available for marriage, right?  Mom was not happy with that reply.  Then I asked, and you re-married when?  She did not recall the date.  I thought, hm, that is right, I told her, you have been celebrating your anniversary as the date when you married at Aunt Betty's house.  So, why did you re-marry?  Wasn't the first one good enough?  Then she looked at me and said it was her business. So, I told our children that this man Larry is not your step dad in the eyes of God.  I refuse to call him dad, and just Larry.  My mom and larry know how we feel and so does my brother and the rest of the family.  They got very mad with me when there was the 20th anniversary.  I got the invite and I told my sister we will not be mailing any card(we live many miles apart) she said, well, we have a money tree.  I said, we will give no acknowledgement, for the marriage was rigged.  Wow!  So, I still hear from my sister, but the others don't email or call.  ANd that was 9 silblings in my family.  Thank God for the distance, but as a traditional catholic, I have a heavy burden to pray for them.

My one sister was married for 12 years, before she found out that her husband was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, and after 2 sons were born.  She was able to prove annulment by the testimonies of my sisters in-laws.  They said they knew that he was strange before they married and he married on a lie, a lie that he kept secret and if my sister would have known the truth, would she have married him, and the answer was no.   That is a true annulment.  Very sad!  Her priest gave no consolation.  NO priest said, "oh well. and that was it.  Very sad.