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Offline jmid

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Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
« on: September 02, 2013, 01:01:34 PM »
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  • My cousin, who was married for over 20 years with two children, divorced her husband shortly after her father died. She immediately started dating another man, moved in with him, applied for and received an annulment from the “Church” and is now going to re-marry. We just received an invitation to the “wedding”
     I was devastated when I first learned of her leaving her husband. The whole family loved him; he actually converted to the faith from one of the Protestant Sects. I am God father to one of their children.
    This annulment and “wedding” raises some questions and emotions in my mind. (Please excuse the rambling)
    1.   As I understand it, an Annulment means that the marriage never actually took place. I was at her first wedding (I was in the wedding party) , visited their home many times etc. If they were not married, than maybe I’m not married, my parents aren’t married, nobody’s married !?!?!…how the hell are we supposed to know who the heck is married ???? This is just a clear example of Catholic Divorce.
    2.   This Annulment, in my mind , takes away the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo hierarchy , the “Church” is actually taking part in and is putting its stamp of approval on adultery. Wow, Im just sooo ticked off
    3.    I can’t go to this ceremony for obvious reasons; my wife is suggesting that we should go to the reception only. I don’t think so because in my mind, how could I celebrate someone choosing to commit a mortal sin?  Not attending this fiasco, is going to cause bad blood in the family, and will shut down any chance of some of them converting to Tradition. I will be seen as the “holier than thou” a_ _ hole who just won’t get with the times.  After all “The Church” says it is OK who are you to say otherwise ???
    4.   I still have to decide how to turn down the invitation. Do I just lay it out there? Say nothing? Go out of town? I’m still working this out…..the other thing that ticks me off is her putting us this position, I mean can’t she just go to Vegas, or have a small wedding with just her immediate family, instaed of making us choose?? uRRRRg  
    Please pray for me to have the courage to do what’s right !!!

    Offline TCat

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 02:00:41 PM »
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  • Erm... as far as I understand it. A marriage can be enacted without a priest in emergencies ( I got that from the dimonds website). So if it has been contracted, then it is indossulable, and she is cheating on her husband.
    Or committing adultery, whatever you choose to call it.

    I had a relative who did the same thing, she divorced her husband with whom she had 2 kids, I was at her wedding as a child, i was young and loved this member of my family and i cried as they made their vows.
    now everytime i think of it i feel stupid because she broke it off in the end.
    now she is with someone else and had plans to marry but they are on hold because of domestic issues and they don't get along.

    moral of the story is, she cant choose a man properly, she had problems with our father as i also have and i am his most hated son, but she has a narcissism complex and is the furthest thing from catholic.
    So this person you talk about is not Catholic, they just claim the name for social advantage, but there is nothing Catholic about them.
    I say cut her off, she will only try to poison you with her BS.
    Don't go to the wedding, say "I went to one of your weddings before and you broke it off with that man, Im not taking you seriously on this issue because i think you wont stick with whoever you move on with and the fact is because i am a catholic by beliefs tell me that i cant go to your wedding because i commit a sin by doing it, because its wrong what you did and i wont go and celebrate adultery, that's the way God sees it so im not going."

    and then say
    "BTW, how many times are you going to get married, why do you call yourself a catholic if you don't believe in what it stands for, and do you think you can suck me into your atheist filth by getting me to agree with your lifestyle?? No. Get real. Im not talking to you until you want to become Catholic."
    Crux Sacra Sit Mihi Lux! Ne Draco Sit Mihi Dux!


    Offline ggreg

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 02:19:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: jmid
    My cousin, who was married for over 20 years with two children, divorced her husband shortly after her father died. She immediately started dating another man, moved in with him, applied for and received an annulment from the “Church” and is now going to re-marry. We just received an invitation to the “wedding”
     I was devastated when I first learned of her leaving her husband. The whole family loved him; he actually converted to the faith from one of the Protestant Sects. I am God father to one of their children.
    This annulment and “wedding” raises some questions and emotions in my mind. (Please excuse the rambling)
    1.   As I understand it, an Annulment means that the marriage never actually took place. I was at her first wedding (I was in the wedding party) , visited their home many times etc. If they were not married, than maybe I’m not married, my parents aren’t married, nobody’s married !?!?!…how the hell are we supposed to know who the heck is married ???? This is just a clear example of Catholic Divorce.
    2.   This Annulment, in my mind , takes away the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo hierarchy , the “Church” is actually taking part in and is putting its stamp of approval on adultery. Wow, Im just sooo ticked off
    3.    I can’t go to this ceremony for obvious reasons; my wife is suggesting that we should go to the reception only. I don’t think so because in my mind, how could I celebrate someone choosing to commit a mortal sin?  Not attending this fiasco, is going to cause bad blood in the family, and will shut down any chance of some of them converting to Tradition. I will be seen as the “holier than thou” a_ _ hole who just won’t get with the times.  After all “The Church” says it is OK who are you to say otherwise ???
    4.   I still have to decide how to turn down the invitation. Do I just lay it out there? Say nothing? Go out of town? I’m still working this out…..the other thing that ticks me off is her putting us this position, I mean can’t she just go to Vegas, or have a small wedding with just her immediate family, instaed of making us choose?? uRRRRg  
    Please pray for me to have the courage to do what’s right !!!


    I'd have nothing to do with it.

    As you say it is a joke when a marriage of 20 years is declared a non-marriage.  A clear example of Catholic Divorce.  Therefore I would treat it as exactly that.  If your cousin had gotten divorced you would not go to the wedding or reception.  In reality this is no different so be consistent.

    Should you tell her why?  Personally I would not.  She is not going to listen, she is not going to cancel the wedding or divorce the new husband, presumeably she is in her 40s so this is a last chance hurrah.  There is no upside for you or her.  In your shoes I would just make my excuses.  "I have married a wife, bought me a cow".  Or in her new "husband's" case you can probably reverse that.

    Sad times.  We just have to deal with them.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 02:23:09 PM »
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  • jmid, whatever you do, don't listen to the "Catholic" advice of someone who says he's going to "turn his membership badge in" (that's ggreg)

    Offline Matto

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 02:43:20 PM »
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  • I think that you should have nothing to do with it. In these cases of bogus annulments there is really no difference between them and divorce and I think they should be treated like divorce because the conciliar church gives annulments so often that many of them have to be bogus. I wonder if a woman who gets a bogus annulment and then remarries commits sin or is the sin wholly on the Novus Ordo entity that gave the bogus annulment? I think the woman who gets the annulment sins also, but I am not sure because I am not qualified to answer that question.

    In a Station of the Metro
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    Petals on a wet, black bough.


    Offline ggreg

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #5 on: September 02, 2013, 02:55:55 PM »
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  • I would think she does.  Few people married for 20 years could, with clear conscience, believe they were never married.  People know whether they were married or not.




    Offline Telesphorus

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #6 on: September 02, 2013, 03:02:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    I think that you should have nothing to do with it. In these cases of bogus annulments there is really no difference between them and divorce and I think they should be treated like divorce because the conciliar church gives annulments so often that many of them have to be bogus. I wonder if a woman who gets a bogus annulment and then remarries commits sin or is the sin wholly on the Novus Ordo entity that gave the bogus annulment? I think the woman who gets the annulment sins also, but I am not sure because I am not qualified to answer that question.



    An annulment doesn't depend on how long a couple has been married but on whether or not the conditions for validity existed.

    Probably the conditions for validity did exist, but you're not in a position to know for certain.  Still you should warn the person that annulments do not dissolve valid marriages, and if they are based on false ideas of what constitutes validity and invalidity then they are bogus.

    Offline jmid

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 03:13:14 PM »
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  • Thanks guys for the replies

    TCat , your so right, I was there for her first Wedding, how many more are there going to be??

    Greg- The reply is the crux of the issue in my mind, I think your correct, she is never going to listen , its just what excuse do I give? If I go with my true thoughts that will only make it worse. If she just divorced and remarried , then it would be easy to say, "Hey you know we are Catholic and can't attend" But by the Church giving it's blessing makes that really difficult, trying to explain all the Traditional arguments makes it sound like I'm being more "Catholic than the Pope"


    Offline jmid

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #8 on: September 02, 2013, 03:22:53 PM »
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  • This from a NO website

    There are three basic requirements for a valid Catholic wedding:
    The couple must be capable of being married—that is, they must be a woman and a man who are free of any impediment that would prevent marriage.
    The couple must give their consent to be married — that is, by an act of their will they irrevocably give and accept one another in order to establish marriage (Canon 1057).
    They must follow the canonical form for marriage—that is, they must be married according to the laws of the Church so that the Church and the wider community will be certain about the validity of their marriage.
    - See more at: http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/rules-requirements.htm#sthash.r6Ov5H7x.dpuf

    The new church doesn't even follow it's own rules !!! But Anyway they did fulfill these requirements, I'm curious as to what reason the NO gave to dissolve a Valid marriage??

    Offline Frances

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 04:18:00 PM »
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  •  :surprised:
    Don't go to this "wedding" or reception.  Tcat is right.  I have a cousin on whom I spent over $500 in wedding gifts.  When I received an invitation to wedding number four, I simply declined with no explanation, and reserved a campsite for that weekend in a place 120 miles away.  I'd arrange for some other "commitment" on that day.  If others don't like it, too bad.  It is wrong to hold you accountable for hearts already hardened.  How likely these people would convert if you DID go?  If you see her at other family functions :alcohol:, be civil, polite, "vewy nithe" and refuse to discuss the matter.  I have numerous relatives in similar situations.  After awhile, most cut off contact of their own volition.
    Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword.  (Mt. 10:34)
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline TKGS

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 05:14:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: jmid
    ...its just what excuse do I give?  


    I think Frances's comments above are best as far as this is concerned.

    Of course, you could also tell them that you have an appointment with a traditional priests that day to make a general confession.


    Offline ggreg

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #11 on: September 02, 2013, 05:40:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: jmid
    Thanks guys for the replies

    TCat , your so right, I was there for her first Wedding, how many more are there going to be??

    Greg- The reply is the crux of the issue in my mind, I think your correct, she is never going to listen , its just what excuse do I give? If I go with my true thoughts that will only make it worse. If she just divorced and remarried , then it would be easy to say, "Hey you know we are Catholic and can't attend" But by the Church giving it's blessing makes that really difficult, trying to explain all the Traditional arguments makes it sound like I'm being more "Catholic than the Pope"


    Why not win a free holiday at the time of the wedding?

    I'm sure you can think of something.

    If you really want to be honest, just politely and calmly say that you really liked her husband number 1 and you would find it too upsetting and troubling to sit there and think about how their 20 year marriage was not really a marriage at all, (as you sensibly said, if it wasn't then what marriage is?), and moreover it would confuse the heck out of your kids and make them doubt the credibility of Catholic teaching on marriage.  She presumably can understand that according to 2000 years of history annulments were not handed out like confetti.  In fact, Britain went through hundreds of years of pain and suffering, martyrdom and torture over a King being refused an annulment.  What was the point of all that?

    At least this MIGHT sew a seed of doubt in her and she could repent before she dies.  I doubt it though.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #12 on: September 02, 2013, 11:09:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :surprised:
    Don't go to this "wedding" or reception.  Tcat is right.  I have a cousin on whom I spent over $500 in wedding gifts.  When I received an invitation to wedding number four, I simply declined with no explanation, and reserved a campsite for that weekend in a place 120 miles away.  I'd arrange for some other "commitment" on that day.  If others don't like it, too bad.  It is wrong to hold you accountable for hearts already hardened.  How likely these people would convert if you DID go?  If you see her at other family functions :alcohol:, be civil, polite, "vewy nithe" and refuse to discuss the matter.  I have numerous relatives in similar situations.  After awhile, most cut off contact of their own volition.
    Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword.  (Mt. 10:34)



    Yes, this is the best advice.


    Annulling the marriage is ridiculous when children are involved.  If the marriage doesn't exist. Then the children were born out of wedlock?  






    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #13 on: September 02, 2013, 11:30:14 PM »
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  • The Novus Ordo hierarchy doesnt have respect for the holy Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman or the Holy orders.  
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline TKGS

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    Relative Receives a Catholic Divorced and Now Wants to Re-Marry
    « Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 06:18:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    The Novus Ordo hierarchy doesnt have respect for the holy Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman or the Holy orders.  


    The Novus Ordo hierarchy doesn't have respect for any of the Holy Sacraments!  But their distain for these two in particular is very strange.

     

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