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Offline Matthew

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Quote on Marriage
« on: October 08, 2011, 10:12:03 AM »
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  • Christian Marriage by Tertullian

    How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another. Side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not.

    These, then, are the thoughts which the Apostle in that brief expression of his has left for our consideration. Recall them to your mind, if ever there should be need to do so. Use them to strengthen yourself against the bad example which certain women give you. In no other way than this are Christians permitted to marry -- and, even if they were, it would not be the prudent thing to do.
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    Offline Zenith

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 04:48:43 PM »
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  • That is beautiful!


    Offline Matthew

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 04:56:46 PM »
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  • It sure makes you think twice about mixed-marriages, doesn't it?

    I know, sometimes they work out, the other spouse converts at some point. But how often does that NOT happen.

    Go for the gold! You deserve it. Go for a marriage of two fervent Catholics -- besides, when you settle for "I guess I'll have to convert someone", you make it that much more difficult for those of your opposite gender to find good Catholic spouses...

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    Offline Waskiewicz

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 08:10:12 PM »
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  • Matthew, I loved the initial quote. I was actually going to post it the same morning in the Have Relationships Become Disposable? thread for Tele since he asked Mater about "one spirit" in marriage. How coincidental is that!

    Quote from: Matthew
    It sure makes you think twice about mixed-marriages, doesn't it?

    I know, sometimes they work out, the other spouse converts at some point. But how often does that NOT happen.

    Go for the gold! You deserve it. Go for a marriage of two fervent Catholics -- besides, when you settle for "I guess I'll have to convert someone", you make it that much more difficult for those of your opposite gender to find good Catholic spouses...




    I think I must be slow on the uptake or just plain confused about what you meant. I can’t see a Catholic ever putting converting someone to the One True Church in the negative connotation. I would never advocate a mixed marriage, but why would we eliminate the possibility of converting someone to Catholicism before marriage?

    Saying that the gold can only be found amongst already fervent Catholics is terribly silly. Whatever “gold” is in a current Traditional Catholic, God could have just as easily given to someone else. I’m positive you know this. I’m also certain you know that He can use us - wretched creatures as we are - to place this gold in others. To enkindle in others the fire of Divine Love: what a grace! That’s probably one of the reasons you’re a parent. :)

    I understand there are very limited Traditional Catholics to marry, and I truly sympathize with all those actively looking. But to anyone who doesn’t see the infinite treasure of converting a soul to Christ, I beg you to reconsider. Do you even comprehend how much your spouse would cherish you?  They can look you in the eyes and truly say, "By the grace of God, you saved me." In addition to which, you’d be doing the work of Christ! You’re becoming like to our own Blessed Mother. By converting a soul, you have become a mother of Christ. What a marvelous title for us little clumps of dirt!

    As St. Augustine beautifully begs in a sermon on St. Matthew 12:50, “For whosoever does the will of My Father, that is in heaven, he is My brother, and sister, and mother”

    Quote
    It isn’t something out of your reach, not something beyond your powers, not something incompatible with what you are. You became children, become mothers too. You were the Mother’s children when you were baptized, then you were born as members of Christ. Bring whomever you can along to the bath of baptism, so that just as you became children when you were born, you may likewise be able, by bringing others along to be born, to become mothers of Christ as well.
    Sermon 72A 8.


    To all: Whether you be in the process of finding a mate or not, I pray with St. Paul in this morning's Epistle, "That you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called. With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in in charity." And as he goes on to speak of the sublime purpose for the diverse graces we are each given in our vocations: "for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edification of the Body of Christ till we all meet in the Unity of Faith." May God bless each and every one of you with fruitful missionary work all the days of your life and may we save our souls in the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ.
    There is only one thing to do here below: to love Jesus, to win souls for Him so that He may be loved.
    The Little Flower

    I will not offer to the Lord my God sacrifices which cost me nothing. I will pay the full price.
    cf. 2 Kings 24:24

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #4 on: October 09, 2011, 09:20:03 PM »
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  • It's best to find a fellow traditional Catholic to marry, but I suppose we cannot completely exclude the possibility of converting someone. A person cannot change another person though by human means. It also depends on whether someone is docile, of good will, and open to the truth. It is rare to find people like that nowadays. They are out there, but it depends on God's will if let's say a virtuous traditional Catholic man by chance meets a modern feminist woman who questions the way things are and becomes receptive to the truth.

    It can be more of challenge (depending on the circuмstances) to bring a person who is used to the Novus Ordo to Tradition. It still depends on whether the person is open to the truth.

    Now I have this question: What are best ways do people here recommend to find and meet a potential traditional Catholic spouse considering the distance between many young traditional Catholics today?
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline Matthew

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 09:45:06 PM »
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  • I should clarify my previous post:

    When I spoke about converting someone, I was referring to marrying them with the hopes they will convert at some point in the future, rather than having a potential spouse convert BEFORE the marriage begins.

    I knew someone years ago -- a traditional Catholic -- who married a protestant man in the Catholic Church. Fast forward several years, and they had 4 children together. The stresses of family life were too much, their "luv luv" infatuation died out, and they grew apart and actually got divorced. Of course, it was no earth-shattering deal for the protestant; he can marry again. As a postscript, he never did convert.

    So when you marry someone with HOPE they will convert, please be aware of the UNHAPPY ENDINGS that happen every day; don't just focus on the few beautiful stories you've heard/encountered about how one spouse led the other to the Church.


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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 09:48:21 PM »
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  • There are a lot of people who treat a sede/sspx marriage as though it were disparity of cult.  

    Pretty wrongheaded.  I guess you have to be very careful about marrying anyone bound to a cult.

    Offline Matthew

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 09:54:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    There are a lot of people who treat a sede/sspx marriage as though it were disparity of cult.  

    Pretty wrongheaded.  I guess you have to be very careful about marrying anyone bound to a cult.


    It's OK, the sedevacantist might not be that cult-like in his behavior...I suppose it depends on the person, and where he/she goes to Mass.

    (Hahaha, I'm sure you were referring to the SSPX side being cultish, but I couldn't resist because either side can be "culty"; if anything, I find that small, independent groups have an easier time forming a castle/seige mentality "Our little remnant here vs. the whole world" and forming a de-facto cult...)
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 10:33:53 PM »
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  • No one should ever presume they can convert someone.  And to encourage someone romantically with the idea of "changing" them is especially presumptuous if  one thinks the change will be religious conversion.

    I'm not saying it never happens or there aren't reasons it can happen - but it is no way to go about finding a spouse.

    Offline Waskiewicz

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #9 on: October 10, 2011, 09:55:19 AM »
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  • Ah, yes. Few are called to convert their future spouse. Finding a nice devout traditional Catholic to marry is the prudent thing and wise in many cases. I would that we all became foolish for the love of Christ in souls. It seems but just, since He became as it were foolish for love of us.

    Quote from: Kephapaulos
    Now I have this question: What are best ways do people here recommend to find and meet a potential traditional Catholic spouse considering the distance between many young traditional Catholics today?


    I think most people recommend the traditional dating sites. If you don't have any candidates of interest at your chapel or through friends etc., I'm not sure of other options. Obviously praying and resignation to the Divine Will are a must! Ask and you shall receive. :)
    There is only one thing to do here below: to love Jesus, to win souls for Him so that He may be loved.
    The Little Flower

    I will not offer to the Lord my God sacrifices which cost me nothing. I will pay the full price.
    cf. 2 Kings 24:24

    Offline Jessa

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 01:30:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Christian Marriage by Tertullian

    How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another. Side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not.

    These, then, are the thoughts which the Apostle in that brief expression of his has left for our consideration. Recall them to your mind, if ever there should be need to do so. Use them to strengthen yourself against the bad example which certain women give you. In no other way than this are Christians permitted to marry -- and, even if they were, it would not be the prudent thing to do.



     very nice! :applause:
    ~Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them.~
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    Offline Raoul76

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    Quote on Marriage
    « Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 04:27:40 AM »
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  • My priest today in his sermon blasted mixed-marriages.  What Matthew said is exactly what he said, and I agree.  In a time like today, with all the modernism and feminism and immorality that is spreading around, you want to heap more potential trouble on yourself with a mixed marriage?

    The priest then read a letter from a Protestant woman, five years after marrying a Catholic, that was pretty interesting.  She says something about how her husband once said he'd never marry a non-Catholic, that he could never fall in love with one, and then he did.  The woman then writes stingingly:  "I wish you had stuck to your guns."  She goes on to talk about how she didn't know how painful it would be to be stuck in a marriage where she feels like she's an outsider and condemned, and yet is going to be obligated to help get the kids to Catholic school and teach the catechism and so on.  She also mentions how it is like a constant invisible wall in their marriage, separating them.  

    I don't see the appeal of living and raising children with someone who is outside the Church.  It's like being with a corpse, in a certain way.  All you have is the hope that they'll convert, but if they don't, you must really start to detach from them; and that is not good for the kids.  Whenever I'm around a Prot all I'm thinking about is converting them; but a marriage shouldn't be a constant struggle of one person to convert the other, that is not a happy situation.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.