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Author Topic: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary  (Read 1940 times)

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Offline cassini

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Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
« on: December 15, 2023, 06:35:26 AM »
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  • The following occurred to me after two years of sorrow since my wife Elizabeth passed away, a sorrow I never thought possible until it happened.

    Recently, on Sundays, I have started to say the rosary of Our Lady of Seven Sorrows as distinct from the 'normal' 5-decade rosary. I discovered this rosary of seven Hail Marys over seven 'decades' on a pamphlet. What surprised me was the third sorrowful 'mystery' was 'The Loss of the Child Jesus in the Temple,' whereas in the five joyful mysteries of the 5-decade rosary we find 'The Finding of the Child Jesus in the Temple.'

    Did heaven chose the titles of all these 'mysteries' or were they put together by the Church over time? Having gone through the loss of my spouse I can only imagine the sorrow of Our Lady at the loss of her spouse St Joseph. It seems to me the sorrow of his loss to Our Lady must have been second only to the loss of her Son Jesus.

    With two 'mysteries' of the finding of Jesus in the temple, one of joy, one of sorrow, is one allowed to change the sorrowful one in the seven sorrows to the 'sorrowful death of St Joseph?'

     

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #1 on: December 15, 2023, 06:46:30 AM »
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  • The following occurred to me after two years of sorrow since my wife Elizabeth passed away, a sorrow I never thought possible until it happened.

    Recently, on Sundays, I have started to say the rosary of Our Lady of Seven Sorrows as distinct from the 'normal' 5-decade rosary. I discovered this rosary of seven Hail Marys over seven 'decades' on a pamphlet. What surprised me was the third sorrowful 'mystery' was 'The Loss of the Child Jesus in the Temple,' whereas in the five joyful mysteries of the 5-decade rosary we find 'The Finding of the Child Jesus in the Temple.'

    Did heaven chose the titles of all these 'mysteries' or were they put together by the Church over time? Having gone through the loss of my spouse I can only imagine the sorrow of Our Lady at the loss of her spouse St Joseph. It seems to me the sorrow of his loss to Our Lady must have been second only to the loss of her Son Jesus.

    With two 'mysteries' of the finding of Jesus in the temple, one of joy, one of sorrow, is one allowed to change the sorrowful one in the seven sorrows to the 'sorrowful death of St Joseph?'

     

    Cassini,

    Without weighing in on the "allowed" issue, I make a suggestion: add your reflection on Our Lady's loss of her husband, St. Joseph, to her losing of the child Jesus in the Temple on that mystery/decade.

    I add the Publican's prayer to the Hail Mary's when I say the Sorrowful Mysteries:

    "God be merciful to me a sinner"
    "Deus propitius esto mihi peccatori"


    DR
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #2 on: December 15, 2023, 08:39:34 PM »
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  • Firstly, there are not seven decades (like the Franciscan rosary) but seven septets (seven groups of seven beads).

    Secondly,It is not surprising since some manufacturer of the medals substituted a medal of the "Finding in the Temple" from the Dominican rosary when they didn't have the proper medal depicting Mary and Joseph inquiring of a beggar if he'd seen Jesus. It took me years to find the proper medals for this rosary.

    Thirdly, in 1233 Mary herself approved  her seven sorrows when she authorized the founding of the Servites (Servants of Mary) by giving the Seven Holy Founders the habit she wished them to wear in honour of her seven main sorrows.

    As Mary Approved of the devotion to her sorrows I don't don't thing we should add, delete or substitute any sorrow any more than we'd change, add delete or substitute a mystery in the Dominican, Franciscan, or any other rosary.  Many devotions can be prayed in our own words as long as the meaning remains the same, however, that has never applied to the Rosaries.
    In the 1950's the Redemptorists and the Servites got together and published The Way of the Cross.  The Redemptorists contributed the Via Crucis by St. Alphonsus and the Servites contributed the Via Matris. 

    Below I've taken photos of the Servites Via Matris from that book with the traditional pictures for each sorrow (note the third sorrow picture).
    NOTE:  the last picture of a declaration by Pope Piux XII is of significant importance to anyone
     praying the Via Matris at home.
    You can click on each picture to enlarge of easy reading.




















    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Philip

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #3 on: December 17, 2023, 06:36:20 AM »
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  • Miseremini,

    Thank you for this information.  Do you have any more on the beggar?  Having just checked my Dolours Rosary the relevant medal does indeed feature a beggar which I had never noticed before despite saying the chaplet Wednesdays, Fridays and after confession.

    In this 19thC publication there is no mention of him but the third septet is clearly about the Blessed Mother's loss for three days.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #4 on: December 17, 2023, 10:10:59 AM »
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  • 19thC publication
     

    Wow, how about that. But surely this leaves a lot of serious questions to be answered.
    Why is there no Glory be to the Father in the seven?
    How much of all those conditions and indulgences did Our Lady dictate?
    Did the Church confirm all these indulgences?
    Where does this leave the five decades rosary?
    I never heard of any indulgences attached to it.
    Most Catholics say this 5 rosary, I have been saying it all my life,
    especially on the first Saturdays in the church after Mass.
    Are there any indulgences to be gained from it?
    How come few Catholics are made aware of the seven sorrow rosary?
    How many souls could have been helped from Purgatory
     if the seven sorrows was the known rosary asked for at Fatima?
    Surely the Seven Sorrow indulgences would make the five decade rosary redundant
    unless it carried the same indulgences?


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #5 on: December 18, 2023, 08:49:05 PM »
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  • Wow, how about that. But surely this leaves a lot of serious questions to be answered.
    Why is there no Glory be to the Father in the seven?
    How much of all those conditions and indulgences did Our Lady dictate?
    Did the Church confirm all these indulgences?
    Where does this leave the five decades rosary?
    I never heard of any indulgences attached to it.
    Most Catholics say this 5 rosary, I have been saying it all my life,
    especially on the first Saturdays in the church after Mass.
    Are there any indulgences to be gained from it?
    How come few Catholics are made aware of the seven sorrow rosary?
    How many souls could have been helped from Purgatory
     if the seven sorrows was the known rosary asked for at Fatima?
    Surely the Seven Sorrow indulgences would make the five decade rosary redundant
    unless it carried the same indulgences?

    I can see you are not one to question things, cassini!!!
    The 'Glory be' is suppressed by the Church in some Masses and Offices in times of mourning eg Passiontide, Mass and Office for the Dead.
    Indulgences are not granted by Our Lady but by the Church, using the power of the Keys. We can be certain that prayers are approved by the Church if they carry indulgences.
    The five decade Rosary is also highly indulgenced. It is by no means redundant but, on the contrary, one neglects it to his own peril. No prayer has been so highly and repeatedly praised by the Church and the daily recitation of the Rosary was the specific request by Our Lady at Fatima who revealed herself to the children as 'Our Lady of the Rosary'.
    Our Lady said of Francisco, when Lucia inquired, that he too would go to Heaven, but that he would have to say many Rosaries first.
    I recommend that you get yourself a copy of the Raccolta, which is a collection of all the Church's indulgenced prayers:
    https://angeluspress.org/products/raccolta
    Consider joining the Rosary Confraternity. You will find all the information you need here, and also some information about indulgences attached to the Rosary: https://dominicansavrille.us/what-is-the-rosary-confraternity/

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #6 on: December 19, 2023, 05:46:31 AM »
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  • I can see you are not one to question things, cassini!!!
    The 'Glory be' is suppressed by the Church in some Masses and Offices in times of mourning eg Passiontide, Mass and Office for the Dead.
    Indulgences are not granted by Our Lady but by the Church, using the power of the Keys. We can be certain that prayers are approved by the Church if they carry indulgences.
    The five decade Rosary is also highly indulgenced. It is by no means redundant but, on the contrary, one neglects it to his own peril. No prayer has been so highly and repeatedly praised by the Church and the daily recitation of the Rosary was the specific request by Our Lady at Fatima who revealed herself to the children as 'Our Lady of the Rosary'.
    Our Lady said of Francisco, when Lucia inquired, that he too would go to Heaven, but that he would have to say many Rosaries first.
    I recommend that you get yourself a copy of the Raccolta, which is a collection of all the Church's indulgenced prayers:
    https://angeluspress.org/products/raccolta
    Consider joining the Rosary Confraternity. You will find all the information you need here, and also some information about indulgences attached to the Rosary: https://dominicansavrille.us/what-is-the-rosary-confraternity/

    Thanks for reply Plenus. When I read about the 7 rosary I loved it.
    I have started to say the 7 rosary on Sunday rather than repeat the glorious mysteries of the 5 rosary.
    Maybe I will say them on alternative days.

    Offline Philip

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #7 on: December 19, 2023, 06:36:33 AM »
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  • The Raccolta, and other pre-Vat2 sources, confirm the indulgences that were granted to the Seven Dolours rosary.  

    The most highly indulgenced rosary was the Franciscan Crown as Tertiaries could gain a plenary indulgence every time it was recited, later extended to all those present at its recitation in Franciscan churches.

    AFAIK the earliest grant of a plenary indulgence for the 5/15 decade Marian Rosary was Pius XI, 4 Sep 1927, to those who recited it before the Blessed Sacrament after confession and communion. 

    The new rules on indulgences kept the plenary indulgence for the Marian Rosary when recited in a church or in family or group.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #8 on: December 19, 2023, 02:51:51 PM »
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  • AFAIK the earliest grant of a plenary indulgence for the 5/15 decade Marian Rosary was Pius XI, 4 Sep 1927, to those who recited it before the Blessed Sacrament after confession and communion.
    A plenary indulgence was actually grated a couple hundred years earlier.
    From the Raccolta 1857


      ROSARY

    St. Dominic, the founder of the order of Friar Preachers, having recourse to the Blessed Virgin in order to stem the flood of the Albigensian heresy, which was spreading itself like a plague over many countries, but especially over France, instituted, by special revelation from her, in the year 1206, and afterwards very effectually promulgated, the devotion of the holy Rosary, which ever since has produced now for many ages the most marvellous results in the Christian world. In order to animate all the faithful often to have recourse to the Blessed Virgin by using this devotion, Pope Benedict XIII. granted, by his Brief, Sanctissimus, of April 13, 1726, to all who say with contrition the whole Rosary of fifteen decades, or the third part of it of five decades -
    i. An indulgence of 100 days for every Pater noster and every Ave Maria.
    ii. A plenary indulgence to all who shall say the third part of it once every day for a year; on any one day in the year, after Confession and Communion.
    The present Sovereign Pontiff Pius IX., by a decree of the S. Congr. of Indulgences of May 12, 1851, confirmed these Indulgences, and granted besides -
    iii. An indulgence of seven years and seven quarantines to every one who with contrition shall say a third part of the Rosary in company with others, either in public or private.
    iv. A plenary Indulgence, on the last Sunday in every month, to all who are in the habit of saying with others, at least three times a week, the said third part of the Rosary; provided that on that Sunday they shall, after Confession and Communion, visit a church or public oratory, and pray there for a time according to the mind of his Holiness.
    To gain these Indulgences it is requisite that the Rosaries should be blessed by religious of the order of Friar-Preachers, and that, during the recital of the Rosary, meditation be made on the mysteries of the Birth, Passion, Death, Resurrection, &c. of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the decree of the S. Congr. of Indulgences of August 12, 1726, approved by the above-named Pope Benedict XIII. Note, moreover, that our holy Father declared, in his Constitution Pretiosus, of May 16, 1727, § 4, that simple people who could not meditate might obtain the Indulgence by merely saying the Rosary devoutly.
    Observe also that all persons enrolled in the Confraternity of the Rosary, wherever It has been canonically erected, gain many other Indulgences when they say the Rosary, or do any other pious work. See the Brief of the venerable Pontiff Innocent XI., Nuper pro parte, of July 31, 1679; also another Brief of Pius VII., Ad augendam, of February 16, 1808, and the above-named decree of Pope Pius IX., of May 12, 1851.

    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #9 on: December 19, 2023, 03:10:00 PM »
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  • From the same Raccolta 1857

     CHAPLET OF THE SEVEN DOLOURS.
    It was about the year 1233 that seven holy men of noble birth, by name Bonfiglio, Monaldio, Bonagiunta, Manetto, Amadeo, Uguccio, and Alessio Falconieri, withdrew from the city of Florence into the solitude of Mount Senario, receiving afterwards from the Church the appellation of the "Seven Blessed Founders." For it was in that solitude that, passing their days in the constant exercise of prayer, penitence, and other virtues, they, by a special revelation from the Blessed Virgin, instituted the Order called "Servants of Mary," taking for the object of their institution, meditation on the bitter pains she suffered in the Life, Passion, and Death of her Son Jesus, and, undertaking to promulgate this devotion amongst Christian people. One of the devout practices which they made use of for their purpose was a Chaplet or Rosary of Seven Divisions, in remembrance of the seven principal Dolours of the Blessed Virgin, which were to form the subject of the reciter's meditation according to his ability; the prayers to be said during such meditation being one Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's for each division, with three more Ave Maria's at the end of all, in honour of the tears shed by the same most holy Virgin in her Dolours.
    This devout prayer, so acceptable to our most holy Sorrowful Mother, and so useful to Christian souls, was propagated throughout the Christian world by these Servants of Mary and it afterwards received much encouragement from Pope Benedict XIII., who, in order to induce the faithful to adopt it more and more, granted by his Brief Redemptoris, of Sept. 26, 1724 -
    i. An indulgence of DAYS for every Pater noster, and the same for every Ave Maria, to every one who, having Confessed and Communicated, or at least made a firm resolution to Confess, should say this Chaplet in the churches of the Order of the Servants of Mary.
    ii. The same indulgence of 200 days to be gained by all who shall say it any where on Fridays, during Lent, and on the Feast and Octave of the Seven Dolours of our Blessed Lady, and -
    iii. An indulgence of 100 days, on any other day.
    Lastly, the same Pope added -
    iv. An indulgence of seven years and seven quarantines to any one who says this Chaplet either alone or in company with others.
    Afterwards Pope Clement XII., " that the faithful might often recollect and sympathise with the Dolours of Mary," confirmed by his Bull of Unigeniti, Dec. 12, 1734, the before-named Indulgences, adding also the following:
    v. A plenary indulgence and remission of all sins to every one who shall say this Chaplet daily for a month together, and shall then, after Confession and Communion, pray for holy Church, &c.
    vi. An indulgence of 100 years, every time it is said, to all who say this chaplet, being truly penitent and having confessed, or having at least made a firm resolution to confess their sins.
    vii. An indulgence of 150 years, every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Feast of Obligation of the Holy Church, after Confession and Communion.
    viii. A plenary indulgence all who say it four times a week, on any one day in the year when, after Confession and Communion, they shall say the said Chaplet of Seven Dolours.
    ix. An indulgence of 200 years * also to those who shall say it devoutly after their Confession.
    x. An indulgence of ten years to those who keep one of these Chaplets about them, and are in the habit of saying it frequently, every time that, after Confession and Communion, they shall hear Mass, be present at a sermon, accompany the Blessed Sacrament to the sick, make peace between enemies, bring sinners to Confession, &c. &c.; or whenever, saying at the same time seven Pater noster's and seven Ave Maria's, they shall do any spiritual or temporal good work in honour of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Blessed Virgin, or their Patron Saint.

    All these Indulgences Mere confirmed by decrees of the S. Congr. of Indulgences issued at the command of Pope Benedict XIV. on January 10, 1711. and Clement XIII.. March 13, 1763. It is, however, requisite, in order to gain these Indulgences, that these Chaplets should be blessed by the Superiors of the Order of the Servants of Mary, or by other priests of the Order deputed by them; and when blessed, they cannot be sold or lent for the purpose of communicating these Indulgences to others, as in that case they would lose the Indulgences. See the above-named Brief of Benedict XIII.
    * In some summaries of these Indulgences, and more particularly in that reprinted in Rome in 1518, we find 150 days and a few lines after, 200 days; but in the Bull above named published at the Office of the Reverend Apostolic Chamber in 1135, we find in both places not days but years.
    WAY OF SAYING THE CHAPLET.
    Act of Contrition.
    O my Lord, Thou who alone art most worthy of my love, behold me standing before Thy Divine Presence all in confusion at the thought of the many grievous injuries I have done Thee. I ask Thy pardon for them with my whole heart, repenting of them purely for love of Thee, and hating and loathing them above every other evil of this life, when I think of Thy infinite goodness. As I would rather have died a thousand times than have offended Thee, so now I am most firmly resolved to lose my life rather than offend Thee again. My crucified Jesus, I firmly purpose to cleanse my soul as soon as possible by Thy most Precious Blood in the Sacrament of Penance. And thou, most tender Virgin, Mother of Mercy and Refuge of sinners, do thou obtain for me the pardon of sin by virtue of thy bitter pains; whilst praying according to the mind of so many holy Pontiffs in order to obtain the indulgences granted to this thy holy Rosary, I hope thereby to obtain remission of all pains due to my sins.
    1. With this confidence in my heart, I meditate on the First Sorrow, when Mary, Virgin Mother of my God, presented Jesus, her only Son, in the Temple, laid Him in the arms of holy aged Simeon, and heard his prophetic word, "This One shall be a sword of pain to pierce thine own heart,'' foretelling thereby the Passion and Death of her Son Jesus.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    ii. The Second Sorrow of the Blessed Virgin was when she was obliged to fly into Egypt by reason of the persecution of cruel Herod, who impiously sought to slay her well-beloved Son.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    iii. The Third Sorrow of the Blessed Virgin was when, after having gone up to Jerusalem at the Paschal Feast with Joseph her spouse and Jesus her dear Son, she lost Him on her return to her poor house, and for three days bewailed the loss of her beloved only Son.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    iv. The Fourth Sorrow of the Blessed Virgin was when she met her dear Son Jesus carrying on His tender shoulders the heavy cross whereon He was to be crucified for our salvation.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    v. The Fifth Sorrow of the Blessed Virgin was when she saw her Son Jesus raised upon the tree of the cross, and Blood pouring forth from every part of His Sacred Body ; and when then, after three long hours' agony, she beheld Him die.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    vi. The Sixth Sorrow of the Blessed Virgin was when she saw the lance cleave the Sacred Side of Jesus, her beloved Son, and when taken down from the cross, His Holy Body was laid in her purest bosom.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    vii. The Seventh and last sorrow of the Blessed Virgin, Queen and Advocate of us her servants, miserable sinners, was when she saw the Holy Body of her Son buried in the grave.
    One Pater noster and seven Ave Maria's.
    Then say three Ave Maria's in veneration of the tears which Mary shed in her sorrows, to obtain thereby true sorrow for sins and the holy Indulgences attached to this pious exercise.
    V. Ora pro nobis, Virgo dolorosissima.
    R. Ut digni efficiamur promissionibus Christi.

    Oremus.
    Interveniat pro nobis, quaesumus, Domine Jesu Christe, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae, apud tuam clementiam beata Virgo Maria Mater tua, cujus sacratissimam animam in hora tuae Passionis deloris gladius pertransivit. Per te, Jesu Christe, Salvator mundi, qui cuм Patre et Spiritu Sancto vivis et regnas, &c. R. Amen.

    V. Pray for us, Virgin most sorrowful.
    R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

    Let us pray.
    Grant, we beseech Thee, O Lord Jesus Christ, that the most blessed Virgin Mary, Thy Mother, may intercede for us before the throne of Thy mercy, now and at the hour of our death, whose most holy soul was transfixed with the sword of sorrow in the hour of Thine own Passion. Through Thee, Jesus Christ, Saviour of the world, who livest and reignest with the Father and the Holy Ghost for ever and ever. Amen.



    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Philip

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #10 on: December 20, 2023, 12:21:39 PM »
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  • A plenary indulgence was actually grated a couple hundred years earlier.
    From the Raccolta 1857

    Forgive my inprecise language:  I was referring to a plenary indulgence that could be gained on any day, by anyone, for just saying five decades.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #11 on: December 20, 2023, 12:40:45 PM »
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  • I attached the PDF of the Raccolta, 1910 edition......
     
    261. The Rosary of St Dominic.
    This Devotion, called also the Psalter of Mary, consists
    of the continuous recitation of the Ave Maria, said 150
    times (as many times as there are Psalms), divided into fifteen
    decades, each beginning with a Pater noster, while at
    the same time the principal mysteries of the life, death and
    resurrection of our LORD are meditated on.
    To gain the following indulgences beads must be used,
    though in the case of several persons saying the Rosary
    together it 1s sufficient if the person leading the Devotion
    uses them. They must, except in the case of i, have been
    blessed by a Dominican Father or other priest duly authorized.
    Persons incapable of meditating may gain the indulgences
    by merely saying the Rosary devoutly. Such persons should
    however endeavour, in some measure, to acquire the power
    of meditating.
    i. Five Years and five Quarantines, for a third part, five
    decades, of the Rosary (blessed beads not necessary). T.Q.
    ii. 100 Days, to all who say the fifteen, or at least five
    decades for every Pa/er and Ave.
    iii. Plenary, to all who say five decades every day for a
    year, on any one day in the year. I, II, IV.
    iv. Ten Years and ten Quarantines, once a day, to all who
    say five decades in company with others, either in public or
    in private.
    v. Plenary, on the last Sunday of every month, to all who
    are in the habit of saying with others, at least three times
    a week, five decades. 1, I, III, 1v.
    vi. 100 Years and 100 Quarantines, once a day, to all
    associates of the confraternity who devoutly carry a rosary
    about with them.
    260 Leo X, Br. August 20, 1516; ; ; 713; SPI
    IX, Prop. Januarv 2 1848; Pe KHL Mech ye DUE
    61 Sixtus IV, Bl. May 12, 1479; Benedict XIII, April 13, August 13,
    1726, May 26, 1727; Pius IX, May 12, 1851, January 22, 1858; Pius X, July
    31, 1906; June 12, 1907.
    THE ROSARY 239
    vii. Plenary, to all associates who say the Fifteen Mysteries
    in the course of the natural day, for the triumph of the
    Church: 5 T5 ITIH.
    N.B.—The indulgences attached to beads blessed by the
    Canons Regular of the Holy Cross (see No. 193) can be
    gained simultaneously with the Dominican indulgences, i.e.,
    while reciting the Rosary, provided the beads are blessed
    with the two blessings. (Pius X, June 12, 1907.)
    Note. —Indulgences vi and vii, with many others not recorded
    in the Raccolta, can be gained only by members of
    the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary. To enjoy the privileges
    of this confraternity it is only requisite that a person’s
    name be entered on the Dominican Register, and that the
    beads should be blessed as above.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #12 on: December 20, 2023, 02:06:19 PM »
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  • Wow, thanks all for these indulgences I never knew existed. Hopefully I got them anyway.
    Pity we cannot know how long in Purgatory someone gets so we can plan their release.
    The plenary indulgences are the ones we really should be seeking.
    Its a great mystery, isn't it?
    Oh, before I forget, did you know there is a little indulgence when you bless yourself with Holy water?
    And I told Father to tell his flock this ass I do see people leaving Mass without the usual blessing.

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #13 on: December 20, 2023, 03:36:22 PM »
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  • * In some summaries of these Indulgences, and more particularly in that reprinted in Rome in 1518, we find 150 days and a few lines after, 200 days; but in the Bull above named published at the Office of the Reverend Apostolic Chamber in 1135, we find in both places not days but years.
    Amazing...If in fact this rosary was indulgenced in 1135, that's a hundred years before the Servites order was even founded.  Devotions are usually only indulgenced when they are already in common use.  We may never know how old this rosary is.  Perhaps it is because of this devotion that the Servites were founded.  Hummmm?

    We do know however, that devotion to Our Mother's sorrows was the first devotion to and requested by Our Lady herself shortly after her assumption into Heaven, when she appeared to St John the Evangelist and requested it, as told to St. Elizabeth of Hungary and confirmed by St Alphonsus de Legouri.  It was at that time that Mary requested from her Son the four promises to those whose so honoured her.
    As recent as the 1980's when Mother appeared in Kibeho Rawanda she specifically requested that the Seven Sorrows Rosary be prayed.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Question on the Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary
    « Reply #14 on: December 20, 2023, 05:17:18 PM »
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  • Is there a reason to substitute the Seven Sorrows chaplet for the Rosary?  I've been saying both the five-decade rosary and the Seven Sorrows chaplet daily for a couple of years.  I pray the Seven Sorrows specifically for my enemies at the suggestion of a priest.  It started with praying for me enemies daily for seven days as penance, which, given the sins confessed was entirely appropriate.  I asked if I could pray the Seven Sorrows for this intention and he told me that I could.  I've since continued to pray the Seven Sorrows daily for this intention.  I truly think my hatred for certain people has greatly abated over the past two years and I have more pity for them than hatred.