Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Matthew on January 03, 2014, 12:31:35 PM
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My first question -- your body couldn't handle even one small host once a week?
I would think that changing your diet would fix your system, so it is no longer repulsed by gluten.
You might get the priest to give you a portion of a host.
But the matter for the Sacrament has been set by Christ Himself, so the Church can't change it for any reason.
Likewise, the Church can't make up rubrics (i.e., giving out the chalice to all those who need it for health reasons)
If a person truly can't deal with even the smallest amount of gluten, even after years of treatment/proper dieting, then I suppose such a person would need to accept his cross and make spiritual communions.
You never know -- such a person might end up more attached to Christ than countless others who take Communion for granted.
I hope this helps --
Matthew
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I can't see that having one small fragment of the host (which contains the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ) even if it is the size of a pencil eraser, would endanger someone's life because of an allergy to gluten. It's absolutely insane to me that this would even be a matter of discussion.
If it's such a problem, one can receive the smallest bit of a host, and it would be the same as receiving a full Communion Host.
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At my chapel, there is a young girl who must have an allergy or intolerance to gluten. She goes up to the Communion rail last, and Father allows her to receive the Precious Blood from a small gold chalice. Father does not let her hold it; he holds it up to her lips and pours a small amount into her mouth while holding a purificator under it, and while an altar boy holds a paten under her chin.
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@Dolores What kind of chapel do you attend?
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Many allergens can most definitely endanger one's life, gluten included. It was suspected that I had a problem with gluten because of chronic intestinal bleeding and I had to go gluten free until a surgeon confirmed that that was not the cause. I was not allowed one single bit of gluten at all!
Allergens can be extremely dangerous. Just a small amount of one peanut can cause some people's throats to swell and inhibit breathing. I worked for such a person once and this happened to him. If your body perceives gluten as a toxin, there is no diet that will fix that except for a gluten-free diet.
Re gluten and Holy Communion, there should be no gluten in a consecrated Host. The bread BECOMES the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ at the Consecration. It just still looks like bread to us. Christ said: "This is My Body" not "this contains My Body." Either it is bread or it is Christ. It can't be both.
There was a good discussion of this matter on Angelqueen years ago. One person who was a prolific and well-respected poster said that his wife was extremely allergic to gluten. I remember that he said that if she just had a few crumbs from a knife that had cut a sandwich she'd have to go to the Emergency Room (so she always had to remember to wash her hands after fixing the children's lunches). Yet, she was able to receive Holy Communion (the entire Host) with NO PROBLEM. I think I may have even corresponded with him to be sure that I understood him correctly.
I am not a doctor nor a theologian. I'm just saying I believe what Christ said and the account by the poster confirmed my beliefs. However, if I had ANY doubt about the Host being truly consecrated, knowing what I know about gluten intolerance and if I knew from experience that I have SEVERE reactions to it, I would not endanger my health by receiving Communion THERE but would do my best to find a priest who I trust to truly consecrate the Host and put my faith in Christ's words. And if I still had a reaction, I'd blame the priest and find another.
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What I mean is, I'd assume the priest didn't do something right and I'd find another priest.
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:confused1:
The accidents of the Bread and Wine remain unless a miracle occurs. I'm not saying Our Lord can't or didn't work a miracle, but to expect it seems presumptuous. There is a child who has to receive the tiniest fragment of Host possible, and immediately take antihistamine and drink lots of water. Needless to say, he does not often take Communion. Even with precautions in place, he often wheezes and gets a rash afterwards. If the priest has done something wrong, then Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko must be added to the list of false or defective priests as I saw this twice when Resistance Mass was held in the child's home. Ingestion of gluten for this child is potentially life threatening.
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Frances said it right. If the Host is digested, it becomes unidentifiable and loses the Real Presence.
@nipr Does that chapel allow low-gluten Hosts?
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Now this is the matter:
I was told that low-gluten bread and giving the Chalice for a laic is permissible...
only if the priest is not sede.
Does SSPX allow these things? Since I'm not interested in NO buffoonry and SSPX is between sede and the indult.
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:dancing-banana:SSPX? Low gluten? No. Special accommodation with Wine? I do not know! I've never seen it done.
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@Frances Do they do these in the Resistance? Or SSPV or CMRI?
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I sympathize with anyone who has an allergen to gluten. People should not be advising others to still receive the host if they are allergic to it, you might kill them just for the sake of some stupid comment on Cathinfo.
I sympathize because i have to eat regularly because of a stomach problem, and if I dont I get nasty symptoms, but i fast for 3 hours before I go to mass, sometimes more. Anyone who sees me go to mass knows that I bring food with me and that I eat as soon as possible after mass, not because i am hungry, but because i get symptoms like very bad heartburn that agrivates my condition. It is getting worse and so next time I go to mass I wont be fasting for 3 hours. Instead God will allow me to take "medicines" and food is a medicine in my circuмstance.
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:dancing-banana:SSPX? Low gluten? No. Special accommodation with Wine? I do not know! I've never seen it done.
There is no accomodation with wine. It is the Blood of Christ.
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:dancing-banana:SSPX? Low gluten? No. Special accommodation with Wine? I do not know! I've never seen it done.
It is not wine, it is the Blood of Christ.
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Matthew, regarding fixing gluten intolerance with diet, it really depends on what is causing the intolerance and how much damage was done before it was caught. If it's "simply" a matter of a severely handicapped digestive system, it theoretically can be cured but it takes a lot of time and attention and you have to know what you're doing. Part of the problem is that there are several different "diets" and theories that all supposedly get the digestive system back on track but there's no way of testing them but by individual trial and error. In the end, some people are able to fix their digestive systems and others are not.
There are also differences in severity between an allergy, an intolerance, a sensitivity and celiac disease.
I would think that most people who are simply gluten intolerant or sensitive could still receive Holy Communion. They may have symptoms afterwards but if not severe or life threatening they could offer it as part of their cross.
I wouldn't mess with celiacs or true allergies though. I think, unless someone else can put forth a good argument against it, that it would be good for them to receive the Blood rather than the Body of Our Lord at Holy Communion. There must be room for this adjustment in the Church's discipline.
If a person has only seen or experienced seasonal allergies with a runny nose and a little sneezing they may not realize how an allergy can actually KILL a person. To that body, that substance is a poison. I know someone with a nut allergy so severe that it's not just a matter of not eating them; he gets a reaction even if a package is opened in the same air space and he breathes in molecules of it. It's less severe than if he actually ingests it, but the throat tightens nonetheless. The severity of allergies can sound crazy until you're the one actually having the reaction. (I learned this the hard way! Used to sweep "allergies" under the rug with a bit of an eye roll like it's child's play. No longer!)
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More bad news for me. Can. 852. says the minister is ought to distribute Holy Communion only under the appearance of bread. (Note that the original uses subjunctive tense)
So, what should I do to get Jesus without all of the gluten, as I don't have an access to a Traditional Byzantine parish.
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I have very severe allergies, including food and any type of fragrance. I cannot tolerate incense very well. I have no problems with receiving the Eucharist but the incense......I get horrible itchy hives all over me within moments of smelling it. It's a mortification for me because I am very uncomfortable (some incense bothers me more than others) and anti-histimines do not help at all.
I feel sad for those who have celiac or gluten problems. :sad:
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Are there any loopholes to bypass Can. 852?
Or if there are no loopholes, would a Jesus statue/doll or watching The Passion of Christ suffice?
Or anything to get Jesus without the gluten?
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More bad news for me. Can. 852. says the minister is ought to distribute Holy Communion only under the appearance of bread. (Note that the original uses subjunctive tense)
So, what should I do to get Jesus without all of the gluten, as I don't have an access to a Traditional Byzantine parish.
Pelly, without access to a traditional Catholic Mass and consecration, you cannot receive His Body, regardless of gluten intolerance. If you are able to access a traditional priest - Roman or Byzantine - then you can discuss the gluten issue and he will guide you. Until then, the Church recommends a spiritual Act of Communion, which is quite in-depth.
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I have very severe allergies, including food and any type of fragrance. I cannot tolerate incense very well. I have no problems with receiving the Eucharist but the incense......I get horrible itchy hives all over me within moments of smelling it. It's a mortification for me because I am very uncomfortable (some incense bothers me more than others) and anti-histimines do not help at all.
I feel sad for those who have celiac or gluten problems. :sad:
Can you avoid High Mass and attend low?
Or are you able to sit at the very back of the church, then when you feel ill, you can step out for a minute of fresh air without distracting the faithful?
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I've written to the SSPX in advance but I still didn't get my reply.
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Are there any loopholes to bypass Can. 852?
Or if there are no loopholes, would a Jesus statue/doll or watching The Passion of Christ suffice?
Or anything to get Jesus without the gluten?
You have to be joking.
And that last sentence is very irreverent, bordering on the blasphemous.
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This gluten stuff is all political. It is one of the steps before getting plastic candles with tiny LED light bulbs and then mocking the old practice.
I have been to NOMer masses and listened to the priest disrupt the entire mass by making the announcement to tell EMs (illicit) they are gluten intolerant while in the communion line.
It is a way to impose rights of individuals over reverence and servitude.
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If the rule cannot be bypassed, then I have to take a pill against leaky gut... if it exists.
Also, I still didn't get my letter from the SSPX.
And what if my priest can't speak my language? I suspect the remaining Trad parishes in my country belong to the FSSP.
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Pelly, can you call a trad church (roman or byzantine) and ask to make a phone appontment to discuss with a priest?
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This gluten stuff is all political. It is one of the steps before getting plastic candles with tiny LED light bulbs and then mocking the old practice.
I have been to NOMer masses and listened to the priest disrupt the entire mass by making the announcement to tell EMs (illicit) they are gluten intolerant while in the communion line.
It is a way to impose rights of individuals over reverence and servitude.
Your last statement makes an excellent point!
Crossbro, "cross my heart and hope to die", I used to scoff at the whole gluten thing and was so annoyed by all the products emerging, thinking it was a scam. Over the past few years, I've had many friends say their health improved when they stopped eating wheat products. Then I started to have some minor issues last year, directly attributed to when I ate wheat-based store bought products. I finally investigated and was humbled to learn that wheat has been genetically altered. The information about autopsied pigs (stomachs) was chilling. So now we make our own bread, etc. Now no problems at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_wheat
I do think you have an important point however, in that it can be used to manipulate.
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This gluten stuff is all political. It is one of the steps before getting plastic candles with tiny LED light bulbs and then mocking the old practice.
I have been to NOMer masses and listened to the priest disrupt the entire mass by making the announcement to tell EMs (illicit) they are gluten intolerant while in the communion line.
It is a way to impose rights of individuals over reverence and servitude.
Your last statement makes an excellent point!
Crossbro, "cross my heart and hope to die", I used to scoff at the whole gluten thing and was so annoyed by all the products emerging, thinking it was a scam. Over the past few years, I've had many friends say their health improved when they stopped eating wheat products. Then I started to have some minor issues last year, directly attributed to when I ate wheat-based store bought products. I finally investigated and was humbled to learn that wheat has been genetically altered. The information about autopsied pigs (stomachs) was chilling. So now we make our own bread, etc. Now no problems at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_wheat
I do think you have an important point however, in that it can be used to manipulate.
You notice that simple 40 calorie a slice bread, just basic bread without corn syrup is over $4 a loaf- generally 4x what it costs for a chemical loaf ?
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You notice that simple 40 calorie a slice bread, just basic bread without corn syrup is over $4 a loaf- generally 4x what it costs for a chemical loaf ?
You're not kidding! I'm not sure who would buy some of the products in health food stores, when it's so easy and inevpensive to make your own.
We make our own sourdough bread. The starter is important (a kind person at our parish gave us some) and then you're set.
I wish I could go back to the time when I just bought something and ate it. But we're so much healthier now since we stopped eating the ingredients in big agra packaged supermarket food. Not one cold or flu in years, no medications whatsoever, and excellent yearly MD reports. Of course, we haven't vaccined in decades, while our friends/family who have seem to be sick more often. Correlation? maybe. I don't believe in coincidence.
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I need something to bypass Can. 852, as SSPX seems to refuse the 1983 CIC.
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I just want to add my voice to the others already saying how a gluten allergy can be serious enough (e.g. Several days incapacitated) to warrant avoiding even small fragments of the host.
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I am 8 x more allergic to gluten than the average human being. And, I will tell you that the problems that develop are miserable. I tested adding organic whole and sprouted bread into my diet not long ago after a few years of a gluten free healthy diet, and problems developed after two weeks. I was getting sick(coughing/sinuses) after every meal. Sadly, I don't think my gluten intolerance is going to go away. I have no scruples about holy communion however(other than who ordained the priest).
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I am 8 x more allergic to gluten than the average human being. And, I will tell you that the problems that develop are miserable. I tested adding organic whole and sprouted bread into my diet not long ago after a few years of a gluten free healthy diet, and problems developed after two weeks. I was getting sick(coughing/sinuses) after every meal. Sadly, I don't think my gluten intolerance is going to go away. I have no scruples about holy communion however(other than who ordained the priest).
PG, no reaction when receiving Holy Communion? Even with extreme reaction to gluten, some have a problem w/ HC and some do not. I don't understand why this is so.
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I need something to bypass Can. 852, as SSPX seems to refuse the 1983 CIC.
Pelly, just to clarify (and hoping someone else may jump in and offer advice), you cannot receive even a very small amount of Holy Communion?
And do I understand correctly that the only trad church available to you is SSPX and they haven't been able to help?
Thanks for your patience.
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I think SSPX refuses the Novus Ordo Code of Canon Law, which permits administering under the appearance of wine if health reasons call for it.
There are other chapels around me, but they are way too far and I think they are operated by the indult. And I don't want a broken Host, as breaking It reduces the duration of the Real Presence.
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And I don't want a broken Host, as breaking It reduces the duration of the Real Presence.
Has someone told you this? It strikes me as odd. I can't imagine Our Lord's presence is limited by breaking the Host.
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And I don't want a broken Host, as breaking It reduces the duration of the Real Presence.
Has someone told you this? It strikes me as odd. I can't imagine Our Lord's presence is limited by breaking the Host.
Odd it is! The Church teaches that Jesus is present in the tiniest crumb of the consecrated Host. It is Pelly who has ruled otherwise. The Church teaching on this Presence has been explained to Pelly more than once on the many threads she has started on this same topic. She's been repeating this since she joined in Jan 2013.
She also told us that it isn't possible for her to travel to SSPX Masses because they are too distant from her home. So unless she and her motherhave moved house , or SSPX have opened a new centre in Hungary which is closer to her home, it just does not add up!
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And I don't want a broken Host, as breaking It reduces the duration of the Real Presence.
Has someone told you this? It strikes me as odd. I can't imagine Our Lord's presence is limited by breaking the Host.
Odd it is! The Church teaches that Jesus is present in the tiniest crumb of the consecrated Host. It is Pelly who has ruled otherwise. The Church teaching on this Presence has been explained to Pelly more than once on the many threads she has started on this same topic. She's been repeating this since she joined in Jan 2013.
She also told us that it isn't possible for her to travel to SSPX Masses because they are too distant from her home. So unless she and her motherhave moved house , or SSPX have opened a new centre in Hungary which is closer to her home, it just does not add up!
Ok, good to know it's been hashed out already. Thank you!
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You don't read it fully. I meant if you get a smaller piece of the Host, it dissolves easier.
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Pelly said
And I don't want a broken Host, as breaking It reduces the duration of the Real Presence.
Pelly, is this what you mean? When Miss A receives an unbroken sacred Host, Jesus will remain x units of time, but if I receive half a Host, Jesus will remain with me 1/2x units of time?
If ever a priest underestimates the number of Hosts he will need to distribute Holy Communion to all who present themselves to receive, he is forced to give fractions of the Host. In all my years I have never heard any person ever complain about this. I have never complained, or even thought such thoughts, for the many times it has happened to me in my lifetime.
If you can't have Jesus for more than 1/2x units of time, then you won't have Him at all? Is this what you are saying?
You cannot reduce the Presence of Jesus to your own legalistic "rational" concepts.
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Had to dig it up:
- if I'm bound to communicate under the species of bread, which I shouldn't do, then how do I get a viable substitution?
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Had to dig it up:
- if I'm bound to communicate under the species of bread, which I shouldn't do, then how do I get a viable substitution?
God never asks you to do the impossible pelly. Just make a spiritual communion instead. Since you cant make a material communion, your spiritual communion will have just as much effect as it.
:cool:
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Ugh... I need to ask how do I get Jesus in His full form or something without using a material that is toxic for me.
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I read on Traditio, that:
- no wine, even for those with swallowing difficulties;
- you cannot hop around between rites.
So, I need Jesus in His physical form.
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Since the Canon Law was devised without the knowledge of these problems, I have a question:
- some of the sick have swallowing problems. Was the provision for them left of accidentally or deliberately?
- if there is a future problem not covered by Canon Law, should we look for loopholes?
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Keep trying, Pelly! Never give up! :kick-can:
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And also:
- am I a cafeteria Catholic for supporting wine for the laity/low-gluten bread?
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This gluten stuff is all political. It is one of the steps before getting plastic candles with tiny LED light bulbs and then mocking the old practice.
I have been to NOMer masses and listened to the priest disrupt the entire mass by making the announcement to tell EMs (illicit) they are gluten intolerant while in the communion line.
It is a way to impose rights of individuals over reverence and servitude.
I am happy for you that you have never had to deal with the suffering that can accompany the ingestion of gluten. Political? Where did you get that? And what are you doing at NO masses?
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Pelly, many who react badly to gluten hosts are able to tolerate a fraction without problem. But it's possible you may be one of the few who cannot tolerate even a small amount. It's worth a try!
He does not stay with you any less because of the size of the host, other than dissolution. Perhaps He may stay with you even longer because of your devotion to His True Presence.
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Modern diseases and Masonic agenda is both dangerous to the Church. But what if solving the modern disease problem will require ceding to the Masonic agenda?
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I grabbed this from Fr. Z's blog:
A deacon in our parish has informed me that a parishioner back in the 1950s had a serious allergy to gluten, and the way they accommodated him was for the priest to offer the Chalice to him at Communion time. I have been given to understand that this departure from liturgical law was all properly indulted for this special case, even before Vatican II, and I’m pretty sure the arrangement involved a smaller, additional chalice as described above. The deacon said that people unaware of the circuмstances would wonder what was going on that a sole layman was receiving the Precious Blood while everyone else was receiving the Host.
:surprised: - It seems like that Can. 852 could be bypassed then - legally, for just reasons. Let's celebrate! :cheers:
:incense: - Hey! The decline of the Church had already begun in the 50s with the alterations in the Mass, the Good Friday prayers, etc... all engineered by Bugnini. So, I don't think that indult was licit.
:sad: - Too bad he didn't provide an email address. Then I could ask him in which year did it happen exactly.
In the same decade, an indult was given to a few tube-fed patients. Are these indults licit? And can an SSPX or any other higher bishop give this indult?
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Here is the indult I mentioned: http://ewtn.net/library/Liturgy/zlitur430.HTM
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As a Catholic I am deeply troubled at the erroneous errors being promulgated concerning gluten remaining in the consecrated host as this has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church. Most disturbingly is the fact that this error actually teaches that God is not omnipotent and in addition He erred in that He has left us a (defective) sacrament wherein some of His faithful will become physically harmed when receiving Him in communion. This error was promulgated by Luther who is a known heretic in that he claimed that bread and wine remained after consecration; consubstantiation. The Catholic Church teaches transubstantiation in which the whole substance of bread and the whole substance of the wine at the words of consecration become wholly the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.
The Council of Trent declared anathema to those who hold these erroneous beliefs. Canon 2: If anyone says that in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular change of the whole substance of the bread into the body and the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the appearances only of bread and wine remaining, which change the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be anathema. Please read the canons of the Council of Trent that follow.
Canons concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist (September 5, 1551)
Canon 1.If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ, but says that He is in it only as in a sign, or figure or force, let him be anathema.
Canon 2.If anyone says that in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular change of the whole substance of the bread into the body and the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the appearances only of bread and wine remaining, which change the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be anathema.
Canon 3.If anyone denies that in the venerable sacrament of the Eucharist the whole Christ is contained under each form and under every part of each form when separated, let him be anathema.
Canon 4.If anyone says that after the consecration is completed, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ are not in the admirable sacrament of the Eucharist, but are there only in usu, while being taken and not before and not after, and that the hosts or consecrated particles which are reserved or which remain after communion, the true body of the Lord does not remain, let him be anathema.
Canon 5.If anyone says that the principal fruit of the most Holy Eucharist is the remission of sins, or that other effects do not result from it, let him be anathema.
Canon 6.If anyone says that in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is not to be adored with the worship of latria, also outwardly manifested, and is consequently neither to be venerated with a special festive solemnity, nor to be solemnly borne about in procession according to the laudable and universal rite and custom of the holy Church, or is not to be set publicly before the people to be adored and that the adorers thereof are idolaters, let him be anathema.
Canon 7.If anyone says that it is not lawful that the Holy Eucharist be reserved in a sacred place, but immediately after consecration must necessarily be distributed among those present, or that it is not lawful that it be carried with honor to the sick, let him be anathema.
Canon 8.If anyone says that Christ received in the Eucharist is received spiritually only and not also sacramentally and really, let him be anathema.
Canon 9.If anyone denies that each and all of Christ's faithful of both sexes are bound, when they have reached the years of discretion, to communicate every year at least at Easter, in accordance with the precepts of holy mother Church, let him be anathema.
Canon 10.If anyone says that it is not lawful for the priest celebrating to communicate himself, let him be anathema.
Canon 11.If anyone says that faith alone is sufficient preparation for receiving the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist, let him be anathema. And lest so great a sacrament be received unworthily and hence unto death and condemnation, this holy council ordains and declares that sacramental confession, when a confessor can be had, must necessarily be made beforehand by those whose conscience is burdened with mortal sin, however contrite they may consider themselves. Moreover, if anyone shall presume to teach, preach or obstinately assert, or in public disputation defend the contrary, he shall be eo ipso excommunicated.
Gluten is no longer present, period! After the words of consecration, the whole substance of the bread and the whole substance of the wine has become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. The devil never sleeps. I pray you are able to see how this error is a heretical re-packaged Protestant belief. We are blessed to be Catholics and no one who has celiac disease should ever hesitate in receiving Our Lord in the blessed sacrament.
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The substance of the host changes into Christ, but the appearance of bread remains. I don't know if the Church has ever declared if the effects of gluten are only a part of the substance or if they remain with the appearance of bread.
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The substance of the host changes into Christ, but the appearance of bread remains. I don't know if the Church has ever declared if the effects of gluten are only a part of the substance or if they remain with the appearance of bread.
The gluten is a component of the 'substance', the 'substance' is wholly transubstantiated into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ at the words of consecration. The whole 'substance' of the bread NO longer exists as the consecrated Host is Christ. No component of the bread co exists with Christ. This error of con-substantiation was stated to be anathema by the Council of Trent.
The appearance of bread is sometimes referred to as the accidents. After the consecration, the bread is only present to our senses; touch, taste, feel, look, smell. Our Lord knew we would be unable to consume the flesh of the Blessed Sacrament if He did not leave the veil of the 'appearance' of bread. Please look up the many Eucharistic miracles where the veil has been lifted and the flesh and blood of the Blessed Sacrament becomes manifest. Remember that at every Mass we are witnesses to a miracle being that Christ becomes present in the Blessed Sacrament at the words of consecration.
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As a Catholic I am deeply troubled at the erroneous errors being promulgated concerning gluten remaining in the consecrated host as this has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church. Most disturbingly is the fact that this error actually teaches that God is not omnipotent and in addition He erred in that He has left us a (defective) sacrament wherein some of His faithful will become physically harmed when receiving Him in communion.
I don't consider the Sacrament defective, I consider my body defective.
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As a Catholic I am deeply troubled at the erroneous errors being promulgated concerning gluten remaining in the consecrated host as this has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church. Most disturbingly is the fact that this error actually teaches that God is not omnipotent and in addition He erred in that He has left us a (defective) sacrament wherein some of His faithful will become physically harmed when receiving Him in communion.
I don't consider the Sacrament defective, I consider my body defective.
Wallflower, I was not saying that the Blessed Sacrament is defective. I was explaining that those who erroneously believe gluten remains after the consecration are espousing the belief that Our Lord has left us a defective Sacrament that would physically harm those with celiac disease. The heretic Luther taught that the substance of the bread coexist with Christ(consubstantiation). This error was condemned at the council of Trent. I am appalled at the arrogance of those on line with websites who claim that God did not anticipate those with Celiac disease and therefor the 'church' has addressed this defect and allows low gluten host! Again, the whole 'substance' of the bread of which gluten is a component transubstantiated to become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. It is only thru your senses that you can see, smell, taste and touch the appearance of bread. Christ has said Blesed are those who have not seen and believe. It is an article of our Catholic Faith in which we truly believe and know that what was bread prior to the words of consecration wholly becomes the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ after the words of consecration. Gluten as a component of the substance of the bread and no longer exist after the consecration. This is a ruse of the devil and is a Protestant heretical belief. How sad that so many have been misled and have not availed themselves of the reception of communion because of this error.
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And I am saying that I do not believe Our Lord left us a defective Sacrament even if I do believe the gluten remains as part of the veil.
When I found out about my gluten sensitivity it took me a while to put two and two together and realize that even Communion was affecting me. Perhaps you'd like to think the ... digestive upset is a coincidence? Every time? Perhaps it's all in people heads? I can assure you my head was the last place to catch on.
If the veil of bread is there to our sight, taste, touch, and smell, would that not include our digestion? Taste is the first step of digestion, they are intimately connected. If the veil is there, I assume it's there all the way through the digestive process. Unless you are saying that as soon as Communion hits our stomachs, we are digesting flesh protein?
How to reconcile people's experiences canonically, I don't know. That's pretty obvious. But I think the proper answer ought to be able to explain experience, not dismiss it.
I have never heard anyone say that God didn't anticipate celiac. Obviously, that's a ridiculous thing to say and it's nowhere near my view. To me it is simply one more indication of the imperfection of my body and life on Earth. Sacrifice is everywhere, even in the reception of the Sacraments.
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Substance is the very core essence of matter. Your digestion is digesting the Body of Christ and not bread. The senses are superfluous. Just as you can not take a piece of bread and ascertain the individual ingredients such as the salt, flour, yeast, sugar etc. theses ingredients essentially are the substance of the bread. This very 'substance' of bread no longer exist after the words of consecration. The very 'substance' is transubstantiated, wholly changed into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. Please read the article below concerning the Blessed Sacrament. Each of us receive an identical host as the one seen below each and every time we receive communion. Please pray to the Holy Ghost for understanding.
We are talking here about an extraordinary miracle that has lasted for over twelve centuries now (1,200 years), and is still taking place today, before our eyes: the Flesh and Blood of Christ is still miraculously preserved today in a monstrance that all can see and venerate, at Lanciano, Italy. This is a miracle before which even today's science has to bow, after a minute investigation made by scientists in 1970-71.
The city of Lanciano, founded long before Christianity, was first called Anxanum. Its present name recalls the “Lancia” (lance in Italian) that pierced the heart of Our Lord on the Cross. According to an ancient tradition, Longinus, the Roman centurion who pierced, with a lance, the side of Christ already dead, came originally from Lanciano. He had poor vision, but regained his sight after touching his eyes with his hand dripping with the Blood of Jesus. In consequence of this, he became a convert and died a martyr.
The miracle
One day in the eighth century, in the church dedicated to Saints Legontian and Domitian in Lanciano, a Basilian monk was celebrating Holy Mass in the Latin rite, with a host of unleavened bread. The monk started doubting the real and substantial presence of the Flesh and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the consecrated Holy Species.
After having pronounced the words of Consecration (“This is My Body... This is My Blood”), as Jesus had taught it to His Apostles, the monk saw the host change into a living piece of Flesh, and the wine change into real blood, which thereupon coagulated and split into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size. We quote excerpts from a docuмent kept at Lanciano:
“Frightened and confused by so great and so stupendous a miracle, he stood quite a while as if transported in a divine ecstasy; but finally, as fear yielded to the spiritual joy which filled his soul with a happy face, even though bathed with tears, having turned to the bystanders, he thus spoke to them: `O fortunate witnesses to whom the Blessed God, to counfound my unbelief, has wished to reveal Himself in this Most Blessed Sacrament and to render Himself visible to our eyes. Come Brethren, and marvel at our God so close to us. Behold the Flesh and the Blood of our Most Beloved Christ.'
“At these words, the eager people ran with devout haste to the altar and, completely terrified, began, not without copious tears, to cry for mercy. The report of so rare and singular a miracle, having spread through the entire city, who can count the acts of compunction which the young and old, hastily assembled, sought to make openly...”
The reliquary: the Fesh is enclosed in a round gold-plated silver lunette, between two crystals, in a monstrance of finaley sculpted silver. The Blood is preserved in a chalice of crystal, and affixed to the base of the monstrance.
The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back. The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.
Now, here is something even more amazing: the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus Christ is really and totally present in either the whole consecrated host or a fragment of it, and the same applies for the consecrated wine, which, once consecrated, has become the Blood of Christ. The five globules contained in the reliquary, when weighed either separately or together, totaled the same weight: 15.85 grammes.
Authentification of the Relics
Over the last twelve centuries, different Bishops of the diocese of Lanciano made authentifications of the holy relics. All testified that these facts were miraculous and true.
In 1970-71, and taken up again partly in 1981, there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena. The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision, and they were docuмented with a series of microscopic photographs. These analyses sustained the following conclusions:
The Flesh is real flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (The blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of fresh normal blood.
In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.
It is a miracle similar to that of Lanciano, the one of Bolsena, Italy, that led the Church to institute, in 1264, the great Feast of Corpus Christi, with its beautful processions, where the Living God of the Holy Eucharist is triumphally carried on the streets. Long live Jesus in His Sacrament of Love!
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Serviam, I gotcha. You eloquently fleshed out transubstantiation. But Wallflower states there is indeed a physical reaction. From his/her recount (forgive my possible disrespect Wallflower! I do not know), it took awhile to deduce that the reaction was due to the bread itself, so it could not have been psychosomatic.
I'm not challenging transubstantiation. Since we are told that gluten problems are caused by the genetic modification of wheat - work of the devil - I've just presumed that it also affects some via the wheat of the bread for Holy Communion.
How do we reconcile this?
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No problem I am a she :)
I do have a basic understanding of substance and Transubstantiation. I do not question that at all but any explanation that will make sense to me has to include the answer to the question of why gluten-sensitive people react.
The only other option I can come up with is that if I react to Communion then Transubstantiation did not occur. If that is the case then that would have massive implications on my Faith. I could lose my Faith altogether if I went down that road because what Mass to attend would be reduced to a digestive test. Maybe I could test everyone's Communion and determine the remnant!
You can see how that is a road I am not anxious to pursue. There must be some other explanation that does not deny Transubstantiation but that also explains the reactions. Maybe it's wrong of me but until I see threads like this I do not actively seek to understand it, I prefer to chalk it up to the mystery of the Sacrament.
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No problem I am a she :)
I should have known. You have the gentle nature of a good Catholic woman.
I have a <forum> friend who suffers with this problem. I pray they are following the thread.
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You are much too kind! :)