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Author Topic: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial  (Read 2693 times)

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Offline nctradcath

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Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
« on: September 25, 2023, 06:47:15 AM »
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  • Dear Moniel,

    I have an impoverished traditional Catholic friend that is in hospice and dying. I am going to call local funeral homes to see pricing about cheapest option for burials that are not cremation. Both of us live in NC. Can you offer any guidance about questions to ask? Poor as a Church mouse would fit his situation as he has been truly crippled for years. Thank you for any help. 

    Jesus and Mary, 
    David

    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #1 on: September 25, 2023, 07:00:12 AM »
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  • He has received the sacraments of Confession and Extreme Unction. Please Cathinfo members pray for his passage to Judgment safely. Thank you again. 


    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #2 on: September 25, 2023, 08:33:46 AM »
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  • Poor as a Church mouse would fit his situation as he has been truly crippled for years. 

    But he does have you to advocate for him in his time remaining, priceless indeed. :pray:
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #3 on: September 25, 2023, 09:29:47 AM »
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  • But he does have you to advocate for him in his time remaining, priceless indeed. :pray:
    Indeed.  David, I will pray for him as I am about to start my daily rosary.

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #4 on: September 25, 2023, 11:02:21 AM »
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  • Dear David, I will pray that your friend has the grace of a happy and holy death.  You are being very wise to look into the arrangements ahead rather than wait until the time of death.

    A first thing to realize is that unless the funeral director is himself a traditionalist Catholic, or has handled arrangements for another traditionalist family, he is not going to know what that means.  When you say “traditional Catholic” he will assume that the deceased was a member of the local diocesan parish and that the funeral will be there, and that it will be a 1969 Missal Mass of Christian burial in the vernacular, with flowers allowed.  Another consideration is if there is a traditional chapel in the area, or a traditional priest not too far away (let’s say within a 100 mile radius) available for the Mass and burial.  In the latter case the Mass would likely need to be at the mortuary chapel, and the funeral home would need a lot of assistance in getting set up for that as they wouldn’t know what to do.

    I don’t mean to be “long winded” but for good context and understanding I’m sharing a lot of details.

    The Church’s directives (both pre and post VII) call for a vigil service the evening before, usually at the mortuary chapel.  Sung vespers from the Office of the Dead (from the breviary) would be the “official norm” but as that was/is rarely available the Rosary is substituted.  In my pre VII experience it was always a priest who led this Rosary but I don’t believe the norms require that, a lay person could lead the Rosary if a priest wasn’t available.  The only difference is that the priest would bless and sprinkle the body with Holy Water, and that is also done at the church the next day and again at the cemetery.  It is the family’s prerogative as to if the casket is open or closed.  I personally believe that it is good for us to “look upon the face of death” but in many states embalming is required if there is going to be a public viewing, and the deceased will need to have their features set (mouth and eyes to be closed, hands set in place with a rosary, etc.), dressing, hair care, cosmetology, which all involve an extra expense.  The next day is the Requiem Mass on the Day of Burial.  The directives call for this to be at least a Sung (High) Mass, but if a cantor or choir isn’t available it would have to be a Low Mass.  This is directly followed by the burial (unless the remains are being shipped out to another area for burial), which includes the blessing of the grave.

    Funeral homes typically have a defined service area, usually 20 – 30 miles, outside of which they add on a mileage charge (where I’m at it’s usually $3.00 per mile outside the service area, one way).  In your shopping also check with funeral homes in neighboring towns.  Do be honest about the family’s financial constraints.  There is a Social Security death benefit but it is only like $250.  You do want to see that it is applied for though (the funeral home usually will do this).  Some states provide a funeral benefit for the indigent, ask what North Carolina offers.  Some people may have a life insurance policy that they don’t know about.  For example, it was common back in the 1950’s (and maybe other eras) for parents to be sold a life insurance policy for new born infants.  Many forget about it and the insurance company will lose contact if address changes aren’t reported.  Not so much banks maybe, but many savings and loan associations and credit unions include a modest life insurance benefit (like around $1,000 perhaps) with their accounts, and some employers do so also.  In case anyone is wondering why, the insurance company offers the benefit for free and it gives them a pool of prospects they will hope to sell additional insurance to, but there is never an obligation to buy more.  If the deceased was a honorably discharged military veteran they can receive a free grave marker from the federal government.  Some may qualify for a no cost plot and marker at national and veterans cemeteries, though the family is usually responsible for transportation expenses to the cemetery.  While more common in Asian and Hispanic cultures than Anglo/European ones from my perspective, family and friends may be asked to contribute toward funeral expenses rather than send flowers, and this information can be included in the obituary notice.

    The body will need to be in a rigid container.  “Cremation” caskets (distinct from basic cardboard cremation containers) may be less expensive than “burial” caskets and that might be an option for a burial.  Reputable funeral homes should offer an economy casket option priced under $1,000, don’t be afraid to ask if you don’t see that on their price list.  You can order a casket online from a third party vendor and by Federal Trade Commission rules a funeral home cannot refuse to accept it or charge you a handling fee.  You can also build your own basic wood casket.

    If it is necessary to absolutely minimize cost, ask the funeral director about a direct burial but say you would like to have a priest present to bless the grave and some family members to witness the burial.  This may be less expensive than what is called a grave side service (the funeral home would expect it to be very short), though there may not be the added elements of a canopy, chairs, and ground cover.  A priest can offer a Requiem Mass later.  If there is a pickup or van available, one could arrange to pick up the casket at the funeral home and deliver it directly to the cemetery themselves.  I’ve seen this done several times, including with a church service, but most families aren’t up for this.

    I hope this information is useful.  Please feel free to contact me with any other questions.




    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #5 on: September 25, 2023, 11:05:58 AM »
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  • A few things that cut down funeral prices:

    1. Having the body buried within 24-48 hours can cut down in the embalming/refrigeration costs. 

    2. Having no reception or a potluck reception at a friend's house.

    3.  Bury in homemade or cheap casket..

    4. Ask a friend with a farm if your friend can be buried there somewhere. 

    Note:  Obviously cremation is not allowed as traditional Catholics.   But here is a link with some explanations in more depth:

    https://people.howstuffworks.com/culture-traditions/funerals/can-you-bury-someone-your-backyard.htm
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #6 on: September 25, 2023, 11:21:27 AM »
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  • Thank you Moniel,

    Jesus and Mary, 
    David

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #7 on: September 25, 2023, 02:33:40 PM »
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  • :pray:
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #8 on: September 25, 2023, 05:48:22 PM »
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  • He has received the sacraments of Confession and Extreme Unction. Please Cathinfo members pray for his passage to Judgment safely. Thank you again.
    Thankfully he's received Extreme Unction so there is a traditional priest available to help instruct the funeral home if necessary.

    From the  Manual of Catholic Prayer 1961:
    "The body is then laid out in seemly fashion, and a light (candle) placed before it.
    A small cross is placed upon the breast in the hands of the deceased, or the hands are folded crosswise, and the body is sprinkled from time to time with holy water.  Until the burial takes place prayer should constantly be offered for the deceased by those who watch the body."

    The above was common pre Vat II and mourners did sprinkle the body with Holy Water with the sprinkler from the bucket placed beside the coffin.

    :pray:
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #9 on: September 26, 2023, 02:34:40 PM »
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  • Is there any means of doing a homemade funeral?  Make a simple coffin, find clothing or visit a thrift shop, use a regular blanket around him.  Hold actual funeral in a home, limit time of wake so that embalming is not needed.  Bury on private land in remote area.  Be sure to bury so that animals cannot dig him up, more than 6’.  Put up a stone or wooden marker.

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #10 on: September 27, 2023, 11:05:11 AM »
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  • Is there any means of doing a homemade funeral?  Make a simple coffin, find clothing or visit a thrift shop, use a regular blanket around him.  Hold actual funeral in a home, limit time of wake so that embalming is not needed.  Bury on private land in remote area.  Be sure to bury so that animals cannot dig him up, more than 6’.  Put up a stone or wooden marker.
    This is a valid option, though most families aren't up to the task.  Whoever is handling this will have a responsibility to know how to properly report the death and arrange for the final disposition of the remains.  The requirements vary with each state and it is important to know what to do and how to do it correctly or there could be legal consequences.  You could contact the North Carolina Board of Funeral Service for more information.

    Type something like "home funerals" or "DYI funerals" into a search bar for resources.  There is a well known book titled "A Manual of Simple Burial" by Ernest Morgan.  Your local library may have it on there shelf.  Without embalming or refrigeration you will want to arrange for a quick burial, within 24 hours if possible.  Even then you will want to keep the remains in a cool environment - dry ice can be used.  A casket can be built in a home workshop, inexpensive options are available online.  A pickup or van can be used for transport.  Make sure you have the necessary paperwork for your state ~ it is generally frowned upon for someone to be driving around with a dead body and not have the paperwork.

    One thought:  visit with a discount cremation service in your area (typically under $1,000 for everything) and see if they will handle the removal and refrigeration, and perhaps the paperwork, but not do a cremation, you will pick up the remains when you are ready.  Some cremation services also do direct burials.

    As mentioned, honorably discharged military veterans can have a no cost space in a national or veterans cemetery, the family is usually responsible for transport, groups like the American Legion or the VFW sometimes can help.  Small rural cemeteries are way less expensive, but many only allow burial of persons with some connection to that community.  Be careful about "bury on private land in remote area", many states have strict regulations ~ understandably we don't want bodies just buried wherever, and once remote lands often become housing developments in the future.  Some states provide funds or cemetery plots for the indigent.  Several CMRI chapels have developed their own cemeteries, and those may be open to other traditional Catholics, IDK.  Back to the required paperwork: In Washington a casketed body or an urn needs to be accompanied to the cemetery by a Burial Transit Permit (issued by the funeral home and signed by a licensed funeral director) or the cemetery will refuse to accept it.  One would need to find out what the alternative is if it is a DYI funeral.

    I have often wondered why more church congregations don't organize a burial committee (some have, and this was more common in times past).  They could contract with a cooperative local funeral home to handle the removal, refrigeration, paperwork, and maybe supply a basic casket.  The church could handle the rest, or also have the funeral home also take the casket to the church in their hearse and then to the cemetery.  The burial committee would also check in to see that the family was okay, bring food over, organize the Rosary, and provide for a lunch after the funeral and burial.  They might even develop a cemetery and provide low-cost plots.  Hopefully they would have funds/margin available to care for families who have no money.  To bury the dead is the Seventh Corporal Work of Mercy.


    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #11 on: December 04, 2023, 09:02:19 AM »
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  • Please pray for Rueben that he recover or safely transition to judgment. He may be in his last agony. He has received last rites from Father Ahern, thank you all. Jesus and Mary, David

    Offline Grace

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #12 on: December 04, 2023, 01:14:09 PM »
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  • He has received the sacraments of Confession and Extreme Unction. Please Cathinfo members pray for his passage to Judgment safely. Thank you again.
    :pray:

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #13 on: December 04, 2023, 01:28:53 PM »
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  • A first thing to realize is that unless the funeral director is himself a traditionalist Catholic, or has handled arrangements for another traditionalist family, he is not going to know what that means.  When you say “traditional Catholic” he will assume that the deceased was a member of the local diocesan parish and that the funeral will be there, and that it will be a 1969 Missal Mass of Christian burial in the vernacular, with flowers allowed.  Another consideration is if there is a traditional chapel in the area, or a traditional priest not too far away (let’s say within a 100 mile radius) available for the Mass and burial.  In the latter case the Mass would likely need to be at the mortuary chapel, and the funeral home would need a lot of assistance in getting set up for that as they wouldn’t know what to do.

    I have pre-need with my local funeral home, and have created a "memorandum of understanding" on file with the funeral director, my estate trustee, and my attorney.  It lists everything in great detail, including the distinction between traditional rites and the Novus Ordo "Mass of Christian Burial", and how I wish the former and not the latter.  The funeral director at the time was a Catholic of somewhat conservative leanings, and he understood entirely.

    You always want to do pre-need, if you can.  When my father died, everything was taken care of, for under $6000.  Everything fell into place like it was supposed to.  Even from a secular standpoint, it's far easier on the family.

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Question for Moniel about cheapest option for burial
    « Reply #14 on: December 04, 2023, 04:37:43 PM »
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  • :pray: