Author Topic: Question For Icterus  (Read 2251 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Question For Icterus
« on: December 22, 2013, 06:55:38 PM »
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  • Hello icterus-- I have only read some of your posts & i agree with U that E rev around S.

    Could U tell us who the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church is at this time?  :confused1:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Online Ladislaus

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #1 on: December 22, 2013, 06:57:08 PM »
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  • There's no such thing as a heliocentrist.   :smoke-pot:


    Online Ladislaus

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 07:12:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    No one has ever presented Any evidence from the Bible, a Pope, Church Council, Father, Doctor, Saint, historian, INQ, Bps Pastoral Letter, nor Catholic Encyclopedia or Dictionary that there is or ever has been such a person as a 'sede vacantist' or a state of affairs known as 'sede vacantism' before the V2 era.


    I vaguely recall that this has happened about 265 times or so in Church history.  Give or take.

    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 07:26:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    There's no such thing as a heliocentrist.   :smoke-pot:


    There are some who believe in helio-centrism but i am not one. Why are u trying to derail this topic?-- start another one if that is what u want to discuss. Me thinks u are afraid that he will agree with U that it is the anti-pope Francis.

    When someone shows that there is a Pope, Church Father, Doctor, Saint, etc who has used the term 'sede vacantism' or 'sede vacantist' ( note the absence of the term 'sede vacante') then i will accept that there is such a state of affairs or person so called.

    This has never been shown BY ANYONE IN ALL MY TIME IN THIS FORUM.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #4 on: December 22, 2013, 07:39:53 PM »
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  • The words state of affairs should more properly read philosophy.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #5 on: December 22, 2013, 07:45:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    There's no such thing as a heliocentrist.   :smoke-pot:


    There are some who believe in helio-centrism but i am not one. Why are u trying to derail this topic?-- start another one if that is what u want to discuss. Me thinks u are afraid that he will agree with U that it is the anti-pope Francis.

    When someone shows that there is a Pope, Church Father, Doctor, Saint, etc who has used the term 'sede vacantism' or 'sede vacantist' ( note the absence of the term 'sede vacante') then i will accept that there is such a state of affairs or person so called.

    This has never been shown BY ANYONE IN ALL MY TIME IN THIS FORUM.


    so what term would you use when it happens that a pope loses his office for heresy , when his election becomes null and void without a declaration?

    Pope Paul IV, Cum ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559:

     

    “6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

    (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
    (ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;
    (iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;
    (iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
    (v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;
    (vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.

    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #6 on: December 22, 2013, 08:02:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: gooch
    Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    There's no such thing as a heliocentrist.   :smoke-pot:


    There are some who believe in helio-centrism but i am not one. Why are u trying to derail this topic?-- start another one if that is what u want to discuss. Me thinks u are afraid that he will agree with U that it is the anti-pope Francis.

    When someone shows that there is a Pope, Church Father, Doctor, Saint, etc who has used the term 'sede vacantism' or 'sede vacantist' ( note the absence of the term 'sede vacante') then i will accept that there is such a state of affairs or person so called.

    This has never been shown BY ANYONE IN ALL MY TIME IN THIS FORUM.


    so what term would you use when it happens that a pope loses his office for heresy , when his election becomes null and void without a declaration?

    Pope Paul IV, Cum ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559:

     

    “6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

    (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
    (ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;
    (iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;
    (iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
    (v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;
    (vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.


    I do not understand the question? Pls note that Paul IV DOES NOT USE EITHER THE TERM 'SEDE VACANTIST' OR 'SEDE VACANTISM'.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #7 on: December 22, 2013, 08:09:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: gooch
    Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    There's no such thing as a heliocentrist.   :smoke-pot:


    There are some who believe in helio-centrism but i am not one. Why are u trying to derail this topic?-- start another one if that is what u want to discuss. Me thinks u are afraid that he will agree with U that it is the anti-pope Francis.

    When someone shows that there is a Pope, Church Father, Doctor, Saint, etc who has used the term 'sede vacantism' or 'sede vacantist' ( note the absence of the term 'sede vacante') then i will accept that there is such a state of affairs or person so called.

    This has never been shown BY ANYONE IN ALL MY TIME IN THIS FORUM.


    so what term would you use when it happens that a pope loses his office for heresy , when his election becomes null and void without a declaration?

    Pope Paul IV, Cum ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559:

     

    “6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

    (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
    (ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;
    (iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;
    (iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
    (v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;
    (vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.


    I do not understand the question? Pls note that Paul IV DOES NOT USE EITHER THE TERM 'SEDE VACANTIST' OR 'SEDE VACANTISM'.


    I know, I'm asking what term would you use to describe the situation Pope Paul IV described.


    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #8 on: December 22, 2013, 08:12:18 PM »
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  • I would call such a person an anti-pope.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #9 on: December 22, 2013, 08:15:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    I would call such a person an anti-pope.

    yes, so are you saying the seat is occupied by an anti pope and that the term sedevacant doesn't make sense?

    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #10 on: December 22, 2013, 08:16:07 PM »
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  • The topic awaits the reply of icetrus. Possibly he has answered the question in another discussion i have not read.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 08:18:23 PM »
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  • edit
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 08:20:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: gooch
    Quote from: roscoe
    I would call such a person an anti-pope.

    yes, so are you saying the seat is occupied by an anti pope and that the term sedevacant doesn't make sense?


    I have nowhere used the term 'sedevacant'

    I am referring to those who are referred to as 'sede vacantIST' or a philosophy referred to as 'sede vacantISM'.

    I hope this clears up any misconception.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #13 on: December 22, 2013, 08:30:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: gooch
    Quote from: roscoe
    I would call such a person an anti-pope.

    yes, so are you saying the seat is occupied by an anti pope and that the term sedevacant doesn't make sense?


    I have nowhere used the term 'sedevacant'

    I am referring to those who are referred to as 'sede vacantIST' or a philosophy referred to as 'sede vacantISM'.

    I hope this clears up any misconception. [/quote
    no I'm confused, you object to the term sedevacant being used to describe the current crisis correct ?
    I believe like yo we have an anti pope, what position would best decribe mine?

    Offline roscoe

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    Question For Icterus
    « Reply #14 on: December 23, 2013, 12:26:59 AM »
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  • I do not believe there is no Pope, but I do not know who he is.  

    There remains no wine drinking emoticon to choose from.  :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


     

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