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Author Topic: Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses  (Read 2153 times)

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Offline agr749

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Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
« on: April 22, 2014, 09:15:29 PM »
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  • I understand that Vigil (Anticipation) masses are allowed because of the old Jєωιѕн tradition of a day being "sundown to sundown". If this is the case, how come some parishes will offer like a 7 PM or 8:30 PM mass on Sunday? If we're following the sundown to sundown rule, wouldn't this be Monday then?


    Offline Marlelar

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 10:50:44 PM »
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  • Are you talking about Novus Ordo parishes?

    I have not heard of any traditional churches having their Sunday Mass in the evening unless perhaps it would be a small mission church and that is the only time the priest can be there.

    Marsha


    Offline agr749

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 07:22:22 AM »
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  • I was referring to Novus Ordo parishes, but there actually is a "Chaplaincy" that has to use another parish's building that has Latin masses at 4 PM on Sundays here in my hometown. I think that's probably because the host parish has their masses on Sunday morning.

    I believe 4 PM is the earliest time that anticipation masses can be held on Saturday, and if that is the case, wouldn't the 4 PM mass on Sunday count for Monday then?

    Offline TKGS

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 09:13:22 AM »
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  • First, the earliest "Sunday" Novus Ordo I've ever seen is 3:00 pm from a parish somewhere in Florida (I forget where), though 4:00 pm is more generally the earliest one usually sees.

    When I was a child, the pastor at my parish resisted the Saturday anticipation Mass until he was ordered to implement one by the archbishop.  He looked at the docuмent that gave authority for the practice and set the time for the anticipation Mass at 7:00 pm because the sun had set by that time when he implemented it on the first Sunday of Advent in the year he did so.  In the spring, when Daylight Saving Time was to be put into effect and the sun generally did not set until around 8:45 pm, the pastor announced that the "summer schedule" would begin and Mass would start at 9:00 pm.  The caused some issues with certain influential people who contacted the archbishop.  Later the "summer schedule" was cancelled and the pastor told my mother that the archbishop had not even been happy with the 7:00 pm Mass, but had allowed it, but he was not permitted to change to a 9:00 pm Mass time.

    Actually, the Saturday anticipation Mass began because, at or shortly after the Council of 1962-1965, the faithful were encourage to gather Saturday evening to hear the readings in the vernacular and hear Vespers so as to prepare for Sunday's Mass.  These gatherings began to be scheduled and, in some locations, a more liturgical atmosphere was established that looked very much like Mass and some priests even began having a Mass at that time.  Few people could see a reason to attend Mass on Sunday since they had just been to the same Mass the evening before, so bishops began to allow that the "anticipation" Mass (that had not really been authorized to begin with) fulfilled the Sunday obligation.  The Vatican soon confirmed this new practice in violation of its own law.  This is just one more Commandment (i.e., the Third Commandment of God) that the Conciliar church has abrogated.

    I've always wondered about this Sunday evening issue also.  I cannot understand how the Conciliar church can say that Sunday begins on Saturday at 4:00 pm but Monday doesn't therefore begin at 4:00 pm on Sunday.  But this is also the reason the Conciliar bishops (in the United States) have cancelled most Holy Days of Obligation that fall on Saturdays or Mondays.  The time issue is just too confusing and, frankly, arbitrary.

    Church law (i.e., the 1917 Code) specifically sets the beginning of the day at midnight and no Mass can begin for a day before that time.  Even the Holy Week changes of Pius XII specify that the ceremonies that proceed the actual Mass are to be scheduled to begin so that the actual Mass will begin as close to midnight as possible.  There is no tradition in the Catholic Church for celebrating the Mass for Sunday in the evening before.

    For those who say that prior to 1955 Holy Saturday Mass was celebrated on Saturday morning also need to realize that no one thought that attendance of the Holy Saturday Mass (in the morning) substituted for their obligation to attend an Easter Sunday Mass.

    Stay away from the Novus Ordo on Saturdays or on Sundays.

    Offline Dolores

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 11:33:51 AM »
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  • First of all, I don't think that the NO innovation of attending an "anticipated" Mass on Saturday evening has anything to do with Jєωιѕн practices.

    Traditionally (and even today in the NO), Sundays and other major feasts began, from a liturgical perspective, with First Vespers on the evening before.  The Sunday or major feast would then continue, liturgically, until Compline on the feast itself.

    For example, the first service of each "liturgical new year" is First Vespers on the Saturday evening before the First Sunday of Advent.  As we all know, the First Sunday of Advent then continues until Compline on Sunday.

    Likely, it was this fact that the conciliar church used to justify "anticipated" Masses.


    Offline Sigismund

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 08:04:38 PM »
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  • As I understand it, that is correct.  I have never seen and anticipated Divine Liturgy in a Byzantine Church, except for the one I attended some time ago in another city.  We lost our full time priest.  our parish became one of three that the priest had to cover.  Ours was on Saturday evening, the largest church had one on Sunday morning, and the other small church had a Liturgy on Sunday afternoon.  I continued to go, but tended to treat it as my Saturday Mass and went to a Latin rite Mass on Sunday morning.  At my son's parish we have Vespers on Saturday evening.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline poche

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 10:32:41 PM »
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  • The tradition has been to have two vespers for Sundays and solemnities. The one on Saturday anticipates Sunday. That is why we had the old custom of repose from work starting on Saturday afternoon. In the 1790s people who were discovered making their servants working past the first vespers could be prosecuted civilly.  

    Offline Tiffany

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 08:09:49 AM »
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  • Many trad Sunday Masses are late because priest have to travel.


    Offline Tiffany

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    Question about Vigil (Anticipation) masses
    « Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 08:13:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    The tradition has been to have two vespers for Sundays and solemnities. The one on Saturday anticipates Sunday. That is why we had the old custom of repose from work starting on Saturday afternoon. In the 1790s people who were discovered making their servants working past the first vespers could be prosecuted civilly.  


    I had relatives that always made sure I went to church as long as they knew where I was living. That said I didn't understand having an early Sat night and getting ready for Sunday until as an adult I  stayed with a plain family. I remember the Dad saying we don't stay out too late on Saturdays. I remember too one their girls wanted to wash their hair later in the evening and she had to ask the mom first because it meant she would be up later.
    It's not easy to implement. If most people are lucky enough to have Saturdays off it's often the only day to get things done.