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Author Topic: Question about the ends justifying the means  (Read 291 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Question about the ends justifying the means
« on: July 18, 2021, 09:39:31 AM »
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    • It is a Catholic principle that the ends never justify the means. With that said, would it be fair to say that the only time that the ends DO justify the means is when that end is Heaven? By gaining Heaven the means used are necessarily good, aren’t they?
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Question about the ends justifying the means
    « Reply #1 on: July 18, 2021, 10:59:39 AM »
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    • I don't understand the question.  If you do evil, then that directly impedes your "gaining of Heaven".
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Question about the ends justifying the means
    « Reply #2 on: July 18, 2021, 12:21:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 18, 2021, 10:59:39 AM
    I don't understand the question.  If you do evil, then that directly impedes your "gaining of Heaven".

    Not all means are evil. So, if I say that what ever means I need to take to assure my place in Heaven I will do, does that contradict the commonly held understanding of the axiom?
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Question about the ends justifying the means
    « Reply #3 on: July 18, 2021, 12:30:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 18, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
    Not all means are evil. So, if I say that what ever means I need to take to assure my place in Heaven I will do, does that contradict the commonly held understanding of the axiom?

    That maxim applies only to evil means.

    What it means (pardon the pun) is that we cannot do something evil in order to obtain some good.

    So, for instance, I cannot rob someone in order to give the money to the poor.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Question about the ends justifying the means
    « Reply #4 on: July 18, 2021, 12:34:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 18, 2021, 12:30:57 PM
    That maxim applies only to evil means.

    What it means (pardon the pun) is that we cannot do something evil in order to obtain some good.

    So, for instance, I cannot rob someone in order to give the money to the poor.
    Ok, I understand what you are saying, thank you. 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Question about the ends justifying the means
    « Reply #5 on: July 18, 2021, 05:49:48 PM »
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    • Seems it's already been answered, but the operative word here is "justify". Only good things can get you any closer to Heaven, and good things need not be justified by their very nature. Something justifies something else if it turns it from a bad thing into a good thing. That the maxim only applies to evil means isn't a clarification or disclaimer attached onto it; it's just that only evil means would even need justifying in the first place.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Question about the ends justifying the means
    « Reply #6 on: July 18, 2021, 06:42:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on July 18, 2021, 05:49:48 PM
    Seems it's already been answered, but the operative word here is "justify". Only good things can get you any closer to Heaven, and good things need not be justified by their very nature. Something justifies something else if it turns it from a bad thing into a good thing. That the maxim only applies to evil means isn't a clarification or disclaimer attached onto it; it's just that only evil means would even need justifying in the first place.
    Thanks for the explanation!
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?
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