Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Public Flogging  (Read 1433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline poche

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16730
  • Reputation: +1218/-4688
  • Gender: Male
Public Flogging
« on: January 15, 2015, 01:35:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Raif Badawi, who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in jail, was flogged 50 times. The flogging will be carried out weekly, campaigners say.

    Mr Badawi, the co-founder of a now banned website called the Liberal Saudi Network, was arrested in 2012.

    Rights groups condemned his conviction and the US appealed for clemency.

    On Thursday state department spokeswoman Jen Psaki urged the Saudi authorities to "cancel this brutal punishment" and to review his case.

    In addition to his sentence, Mr Badawi was ordered to pay a fine of 1 million riyals ($266,000; £175,000).

    In 2013 he was cleared of apostasy, which could have carried a death sentence.

    Last year Mr Badawi's lawyer was sentenced to 15 years in prison after being found guilty of a range of offences in an anti-terrorism court, the Associated Press news agency reported.

    'Act of cruelty'
     
    The flogging took place outside a mosque in the Red Sea city of Jeddah after Friday prayers, witnesses said.

    AFP news agency, quoting people at the scene, said Mr Badawi arrived at the mosque in a police car and had the charges read out to him in front of a crowd.

    He was then made to stand with his back to onlookers and whipped, though he remained silent, the witnesses said.

    The sentence was widely condemned by human rights groups.

    "The flogging of Raif Badawi is a vicious act of cruelty which is prohibited under international law," said Said Boumedouha of Amnesty International.

    "By ignoring international calls to cancel the flogging Saudi Arabia's authorities have demonstrated an abhorrent disregard for the most basic human rights principles."

    Saudi Arabia enforces a strict version of Islamic law and does not tolerate political dissent. It has some of the highest social media usage rates in the region, and has cracked down on domestic online criticism, imposing harsh punishments.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30744693

    These middle eastern countries monitor what is being saiid on the internet. When a Middle Eastern Muslim expresses an interest in Christianity they ar taking their lives in their hands.


    Offline PereJoseph

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1411
    • Reputation: +1978/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 07:25:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I wonder why public flogging is considered to be against international law, according to Amnesty International.  Of course, they're basically against every penal instrument, but I do wonder about which convention or declaration they are citing.  (Not that their claim is actually true de jure, of course).


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 11:51:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    I wonder why public flogging is considered to be against international law, according to Amnesty International.  Of course, they're basically against every penal instrument, but I do wonder about which convention or declaration they are citing.  (Not that their claim is actually true de jure, of course).

    I wonder what he said about Islam that got them mad. Could it have been something that is true? So you think he should be flogged for speaking the truth?

    Offline PereJoseph

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1411
    • Reputation: +1978/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 02:13:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: PereJoseph
    I wonder why public flogging is considered to be against international law, according to Amnesty International.  Of course, they're basically against every penal instrument, but I do wonder about which convention or declaration they are citing.  (Not that their claim is actually true de jure, of course).

    I wonder what he said about Islam that got them mad. Could it have been something that is true? So you think he should be flogged for speaking the truth?


    That's funny.  I didn't actually say anything about the case, since I don't know about it.  I still don't know anything about it and therefore won't say anything about it.

    Since I'm a Catholic, obviously I don't believe that people should be punished for speaking against Mohammedanism.  As a general rule, speaking ill of that Satanic religion is a good thing.  No man should suffer for publicly or privately saying that Mohammedanism is not true, Mohammed is a false prophet, Mohammed was a pervert, Mohammed was likely possessed, Sharia law destroys nations and peoples, etc.

    We should distinguish between the justice of one being flogged in an individual case and the justice of flogging as a general penal practice, however.  Those are two quite distinct issues.  I have only addressed the issue of flogging as a general practice, specifically in relation to why Amnesty International would claim that it is prohibited by international law.  Or perhaps they claimed that restricting free speech or something was so prohibited.  I'm not sure what they are claiming, really.

    Offline shin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1671
    • Reputation: +854/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 03:05:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    I wonder why public flogging is considered to be against international law, according to Amnesty International.  Of course, they're basically against every penal instrument, but I do wonder about which convention or declaration they are citing.  (Not that their claim is actually true de jure, of course).


    Don't know whether it's true or not, perhaps they are trying to broaden some law or other to make it true, i.e. to have it covered under 'torture', and therefore..

    After all, the Saudi's aren't the only ones who have this sort of punishment.

    Singapore admirably still has caning for criminals. Without true punishment for crimes the idea of justice is swiftly entirely abandoned as a virtue and vice takes its place as we have seen everywhere with the effeminate now in charge of public morals.


    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-


    Offline Quasimodo

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 159
    • Reputation: +175/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 06:50:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would rather be publicly flogged than incarcerated. I think it would be more humane to flog people for non violent crimes than to lock them in a cage.

    Offline ggreg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3001
    • Reputation: +184/-179
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 07:18:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I've seen Muslim floggings and the flogging is usually not very hard.

    It's humiliating, in that it is public, and sure it would hurt, a bit, but they don't use the cat-o-nine-tails on people.



    Frankly, I would support it if the cops were allowed to do that here in the western world, assuming a Christian state, when dealing with out of control youths, petty criminals and other scuмbaggery.  They used to.  In Spain the Guarda Civil used to give out of control yobs a good pasting up to the late 1970s.  The early British Tourists had to watch themselves and stay quiet when drunk on holiday.

    If my teenaged children came back from the town drunk at 3am with a few welts on their back because they were shouting, screaming and causing a public nuisance and when the cops stopped them they abused the cops then I would think they deserved a damned good flogging.

    They'd sure think twice about doing it again - if it hurt.

    Clearly the current deterents don't work because most market town centres are no-go areas for decent respectable people 4 nights per week when the pubs turn out.  I'd be far safer walking through a Muslim ghetto than Bristol Town centre from Thursday to Sunday night.

    And sure, you can talk about human rights, but what about my right to go out for a walk with my wife and kids on a summer's evening in my town centre.  How have we got to the point where a British market town is a no-go zone between 10pm and 3am?


    Offline ggreg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3001
    • Reputation: +184/-179
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #7 on: January 16, 2015, 12:27:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Husband to be flogged for slapping wife in Saudi Arabia

    Manama: A man in Saudi Arabia charged with slapping his wife was sentenced to 10 days in prison and 30 lashes.

    The court in Al Qateef in the Eastern Province said that the wife could
    witness the flogging in retribution for the physical pain her husband
    caused her, Saudi daily Al Sharq reported on Wednesday.

    The husband will also have to take part in special sessions on marriage
    counseling and on how to treat and deal with spouses, the judge ruled.

    According to the court docuмents, the wife, in her 30s, filed the case
    after her husband slapped her on the face during an argument.
    He admitted the act, arguing that she had been impolite with his relatives, the daily said.


    http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/husband-to-be-flogged-for-slapping-wife-in-saudi-arabia-1.1192906


    Offline ggreg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3001
    • Reputation: +184/-179
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 12:32:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Suggest adding the whipping post to America’s system of criminal justice and most people recoil in horror. But offer a choice between five years in prison or 10 lashes and almost everybody picks the lash. What does that say about prison?

    America has a prison problem. Never in the history of the world has a country locked up so many of its people. We have more prisons than China, and it has a billion more people than we do. Forty years ago America had 338,000 people behind bars. Today 2.3 million are incarcerated. We have more prisoners than soldiers. Something has gone terribly wrong.

    The problem — mostly due to longer and mandatory sentences combined with an idiotic war on drugs — is so abysmal that the Supreme Court recently ordered 33,000 prisoners in California to be housed elsewhere or released. If California could simply return to its 1970 level of incarceration, the savings from its $9 billion prison budget would cut the state’s budget deficit in half. But doing so would require the release of 125,000 inmates, and not even the most progressive reformer has a plan to reduce the prison population by 85 percent.

    I do: Bring back the lash. Give convicts the choice of flogging in lieu of incarceration.

    Ironically, when the penitentiary was invented in post-revolutionary Philadelphia, it was designed to replace the very punishment I propose. Corporal punishment, said one early advocate of prisons, was a relic of “barbarous” British imperialism ill-suited to “a new country, simple manners, and a popular form of government.” State by state, starting with Pennsylvania in 1790 and ending with Delaware in 1972 (20 years after the last flogging), corporal punishment was struck from the criminal code.

    The idea was that penitentiaries would heal the criminally ill just as hospitals cured the physically sick. It didn’t work. Yet despite — or perhaps because of — the failures of the first prisons, states authorized more and larger prisons. With flogging banned and crime not cured, there was simply no alternative. We tried rehabilitation and ended up with supermax. We tried to be humane and ended up with more prisoners than Stalin had at the height of the Soviet Gulag. Somewhere in the process, we lost the concept of justice and punishment in a free society.

    Today, the prison-industrial complex has become little more than a massive government-run make-work program that profits from human bondage. To oversimplify — just a bit — we pay poor, unemployed rural whites to guard poor, unemployed urban blacks.

    Of course some people are simply too dangerous to release — pedophiles, terrorists and the truly psychopathic, for instance. But they’re relatively few in number. And we keep these people behind bars because we’re afraid of them.

    As to the other 2 million common criminals, the 2 million more than we had in 1970, we can’t and won’t keep them locked up forever. Ninety-five percent of prisoners are eventually released. The question is not if but when and how.

    Incarceration not only fails to deter crime but in many ways can increase it. For crime driven by economic demand, such as drug dealing, arresting one seller creates a job opening for others, who might fight over the vacant position.

    Incarceration destroys families and jobs, exactly what people need to have in order to stay away from crime. Incarcerated criminals are more likely to reoffend than similar people given alternative sentences. To break the cycle of crime, people need help. And they would need less help if they were never incarcerated in the first place.

    Flogging, as practiced in Singapore or Malaysia, is honest, cheap and, compared to prison, humane. Caning succeeds in part simply because it is not incarceration. Along with saving tens of billions of dollars a year, corporal punishment avoids all the hogwash about prisons somehow being good for the soul.

    Some would argue that flogging isn’t harsh enough. While this moves beyond the facile belief that flogging is too cruel to consider, if flogging shouldn’t be offered because it’s too soft — if we need to keep people locked up precisely because overcrowded jails and prisons are so unbelievably horrific — then perhaps we need to question our humanity.

    Is there a third way, something better than both flogging and prison? I hope so. But until we figure out what that is and have the political fortitude to adopt it, we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Flogging may be distasteful, but surely there’s little harm in offering the choice. If it takes a defense of flogging to make us face the truth about prison and punishment, I say bring on the lash.

    Peter Moskos, the author of “In Defense of Flogging,” is an assistant professor of law and police science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and is on the faculty of the City University of New York’s doctoral program in sociology.

    Offline shin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1671
    • Reputation: +854/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #9 on: January 17, 2015, 11:45:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Alongside the benefit of less people in prison, is that prisons are safer for the prisoners and guards as there's an actual additional punishment for the incarcerated who are violent or threatening.
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Public Flogging
    « Reply #10 on: January 18, 2015, 12:47:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Update 16 January: the latest round of lashings has been postponed, and the case has been referred to the Saudi Supreme Court by the king's office.

    Last week he was whipped 50 times, and this week he was supposed to be beaten again. Raif Badawi has been sentenced to a total of 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison for offences ranging from cybercrime to disobeying his father and insulting Islam on his "Saudi Liberal Network" website.

    On Friday, Amnesty International said the latest round of lashings would be postponed for medical reasons. And the BBC has learned that the case has been referred to the Saudi Supreme Court for review.

    Badawi's name was trending again on Twitter this week. His wife Ensaf Haidar told the BBC her family was living in "perpetual anxiety".


    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30837435