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Author Topic: claims of visions or sth else?  (Read 878 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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claims of visions or sth else?
« on: December 28, 2010, 01:24:22 AM »
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  •   What should we do when someone claims to have had visions in the past? or from childhood till adulthood?
       If we see a repentant sinner or a convert who says that his conversion or repentance process was started by those vision should we believe him?
      It is important please answer.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    claims of visions or sth else?
    « Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 01:34:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     What should we do when someone claims to have had visions in the past? or from childhood till adulthood?
       If we see a repentant sinner or a convert who says that his conversion or repentance process was started by those vision should we believe him?
      It is important please answer.


    How can you know for sure?

    I think spouse, we should be open-minded, and try to judge the veracity of what they say by comparing it to what we are certain is true.


    Offline TKGS

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    claims of visions or sth else?
    « Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 07:41:31 AM »
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  • At the very least, I think, we should believe that he believes it is true.  

    If the individual is clearly a repentent traditional Roman Catholic and the content of the visions were 100% orthodox then the visions could possibly even be authentic.

    If the individual today is not a traditional Roman Catholic or is steeped in some sin, then the visions could still be authentic though they may be satanic.

    The only question I would have if someone told me this is, if the visions are authentic why am I being told about them when the subject has not already made it widely known?

    Why is he telling you this information and what does he expect you to do with this knowledge?  By the way, I'm not asking these questions to receive an answer on the forum, I'm saying that these are the kind of questions you have to be able to answer in order to be able to form a judgment about whether he is being truthful or fanciful.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    claims of visions or sth else?
    « Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 12:35:32 PM »
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  •   Thanks alot.

    Offline Dulcamara

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    claims of visions or sth else?
    « Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 05:27:07 PM »
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  • Dreams are also different than visions, too. A person may call dreams "visions" ... but a dream can be nothing more than that... just a dream, even if Our Lord or Our Lady or some other holy person were in them. The bible itself tells us not to give credence to dreams. That's not to say it never happens. Obviously there have been rare exceptions when a person has received authentic messages in their sleep. But be they visions, dreams or anything else, only the Church is qualified to determine whether they're real (not just imagination, or simple dreams), and whether they're authentically something from heaven, or hell.

    Among other things, though, you can sometimes tell if the "vision" or "message" has anything contrary to the faith, or does not sound like something Our Lord or Our Lady (or whoever) would really have said. Obviously, there are certain things or kinds of things that no one from heaven would ever say. Nor do visions typically puff up the visionary (Eg, telling them they're special or great or anything). And usually they sound a lot like the other known visions, with things like "pray for sinners" or some message that a certain devotion should be increased, or something like that. Generally speaking, persons from heaven don't just go around talking to people just to chat, to no purpose.

    Ultimately, aside from the Church looking into them, it is hard to say, except that to some extent, by their fruits you will know them. Is the message contrary to the Faith or virtue or reason or anything we know as Catholics? Or does it puff up the person and make them brag and think they're special or "chosen"? Those are not marks of anything of heaven.

    Lots of people claim visions or messages, but very often they're just victims of their own imagination, or some stronger delusion (like a mental illness), and that's all there is to it. Our Lord has already made it pretty clear what we have to do to save our souls. He has also asked (through Mary) that Russia be consecrated, which the world has not heeded. Finally, Mary has made known far and wide that all of us are to pray the rosary, and especially pray and make sacrifices for the conversion of sinners and for the poor souls. Since we know all of that already, what need would heaven have of having someone coming constantly to talk to someone?

    I think if it were important, it wouldn't have taken someone from heaven anything like "someone's whole life" to tell them what needs to be said, or to encourage them to get on with whatever the purpose of the vision was (encouraging people to pray, to do some devotion, whatever). Certainly, I can't recall any saint's life, where they had visions "just because", that were to no real purpose. Persons from heaven don't typically come just to hear themselves talk.

    The person in question really needs to consult a Catholic priest, not to just spout "information" from visions that COULD, for all they know, be from hell rather than heaven. By "not bothering with formalities" (talking to a priest, getting them approved, etc.), what they are doing by sharing the information of those "visions" is dangerous and irresponsible at best, since it COULD be the devil. And if they are Catholic, and don't want to suffer through being doubted by the Church, well... from what I know everyone whose visions WERE authentic did usually suffer that way, and in other ways, besides, but it was nevertheless necessary, for the good of the faithful, to know for sure where the visions in question came from, even if the visionary had much to suffer in trying to prove them.
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi


    Offline St Jude Thaddeus

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    claims of visions or sth else?
    « Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 08:08:51 PM »
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  • By their fruits, spouse. If the visions turned them towards the Church, or made them better Catholics, its veracity can be accepted. If the visions encouraged them to believe something contrary to the Faith, as Dulcamara just said, then that vision is either not real or was inspired by demonic forces.

    I had a pair of imaginative visions, an intellectual vision, and a corporeal vision. Even though it took me years to understand the corporeal vision, it still played a part in my becoming a Traditionalist Catholic, having been a lapsed Novus Ordo Catholic before. The last two visions, an imaginative one and an intellectual one, were the ones that steered me unequivocally back towards the Church. Gradually I began to reform my life and abandon sinful practices and beliefs. I am still in this process but at least I am on the right path and headed in the right direction. I have also played a part in some others returning to Church and strengthening their faith. Therefore the fruits were good and so I don't hesitate to mention them here.

    BTW, spouse, are you aware of the three classes of supernatural visions, according to the mystics? They are the corporeal, the imaginative, and the intellectual. Here's the Catholic Encyclopedia article if you or anybody else is interested:

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15477a.htm



    St. Jude, who, disregarding the threats of the impious, courageously preached the doctrine of Christ,
    pray for us.

    Offline St Jude Thaddeus

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    claims of visions or sth else?
    « Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 08:10:24 PM »
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  • Ooops, I hit the Quote button by mistake.  :ape:
    St. Jude, who, disregarding the threats of the impious, courageously preached the doctrine of Christ,
    pray for us.