Author Topic: pregnant girl at mass (Read 32939 times)

catherineofsiena · « **Reply #165 on:** July 07, 2012, 09:57:13 PM »

PW, one of the problems in the Traditional movement is that a certain number of people can be quite harsh with newcomers. Others are fascinated by a newbie while others remain standoffish or indifferent. You will find this in every chapel and website. Your private business is just that; no one needs to approve of you or decide if you have properly atoned. That is between you, God and your priest. Everyone here is a sinner and some worse than you, myself included.

I was not raised in Tradition either. It will take years to fully acclimate so please stop worrying. It's not going to occur overnight. There is a lot to learn and I hope you will find a good priest at Winona or whereever you decide to go that will become your spiritual father and director. This is important protection for single women in the world, particularly if your parents did not do a good job. You are vulnerable. A wise spiritual father will help you make decisions about dating, marriage and other life concerns. It would be wise to check out the chapels and area before moving so you know you will be comfortable. Someone may even guide you towards housing and a job.

Thorn · « **Reply #166 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:09:35 PM »

Philomena, I also meant to write in my last post that Nadir twisted the meaning of your post. She should have written that YOU were ticked off by PW's inappropriate words. You didn't tick off PW, & I think Penitent took your advice & words to heart.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #167 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:11:23 PM »

Dear Penitent Woman,

God Bless you.

You have sinned, but you appear to be a deeply penitent woman.

That is a wonderful grace that God has given to you.

Quote from: Our Lord

I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.

(Saint Luke XV:7).

You have been given an excellent piece of advice by Capt McQuigg and by Matthew:

Stop attending the Novus Ordo.

The Traditional Latin Mass is the true Catholic Mass.

Pray to Our Lady.

Also, keep posting on CathInfo.

There are many people here who will try to help you.

God Bless you.

Sede Catholic.

Nadir · « **Reply #168 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:23:07 PM »

Quote from: Thorn

Nadir - so weird how things turn out! I was going to PM you to get more info on your marmalade recipe as I have an overbearing lemon tree & a friend gave me a bunch of grapefruit & oranges from her pruned trees. Guess I'll look elsewhere.

No need to take offense. Actually what you have written in your response makes a lot of sense and is excellent advice for PW. Yes many of us were messed up and she has found the pearl of great price. And to think that may not have happened if it were not for her distress due to her pregnancy - and now she has a beautiful daughter. God can make good come our of anything.

So feel free. I too am very straightfowrward and say what I think. Why not post on the Lemons forum?

Philomena · « **Reply #169 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:31:56 PM »

Quote from: Thorn

Philomena, I also meant to write in my last post that Nadir twisted the meaning of your post. She should have written that YOU were ticked off by PW's inappropriate words. You didn't tick off PW, & I think Penitent took your advice & words to heart.

Thank you, Thorn. If Nadir thinks I was "ticked" by PW's post, that would be incorrect, and couldn't be further from the truth.

Flannery understood my post when she wrote: "Philomena, thank you for your recent posts standing up for decency of language. I was going to write something similar but you took the words right out of my mouth! There's no call for immodest and unladylike language and you were the first one to speak up with fortitude. God bless you"!

I only wrote 3 posts addressing PW, and all anyone has to do is go back and read them; in tone and content they were written in charity, in order to offer her some helpful advice.

Nadir · « **Reply #170 on:** July 08, 2012, 12:31:13 AM »

Quote from: Philomena

Quote from: Nadir

I was also shocked that Philomena would tick you off for using inappropriate words in descibing your dilemma, and cannot for the life of me think what she means. But I am not going back to check.
Again your humilty shone through. It will be a lucky, or should I say blessed, man who marries you!

I do not think I "ticked" her off. My post was written with charity and concern for her own soul as well as those of us reading. As I indicated in the post it was intended to offer her help and sound Catholic advice, without a single harsh tone or ill-intention whatsoever.

.... When I wrote my post, I was referring to a post of hers she has since had deleted. And yes it contained very graphic description of fornication. My post to her was completely appropriate, and as I already stated it was written with charity and keeping her well-being in mind.

Dear Philomena,
I believed that I had read every post, I have found nothing sordid. Maybe the offending post has been deleted. I therefore stand corrected, and ask you to to forgive my hasty words.

Philomena · « **Reply #171 on:** July 08, 2012, 09:11:38 AM »

Dear Nadir, yes that post was deleted. You did not speak in haste, I did not take it that way. All is good between us

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #172 on:** July 08, 2012, 09:14:33 AM »

SpiritusSanctus, thank you for the information on Spiritual Communion.
I am in a bit of a panic this morning. I can't afford internet so I have to try to route my computer through my phone and videos don't always work right. It feels a little disrespectful to watch mass on a phone itself. :-/ It is hard to trust and to put changes into practice. TLM is out for me today because I just don't have the money for gas to get there this week.

My little one has never missed mass in her life. :cry: I know that to a traditionalist the NO doesn't count, but I need to pray for more clarity so that I can understand it as sacrilegious and wrong, myself. When I go to mass I always leave feeling very good. It would be very hard to stay home today and not have that feeling. I am wondering if the feeling is all in my head and is really a pride thing, or if God gives me this feeling of grace even if I at the wrong mass, as to slowly guide me the right direction?

Thorn, thank you for taking the time to write back to me. I am glad I was able to give you a better understanding and I apologize for misreading your intentions. I appreciate your prayers. I agree that I need to be careful about time spent in forums. My "new" life as a mother working to repent and change my lifestyle has left me feeling very isolated and a little lonely. I need to remember to give my thoughts to the Lord first and foremost.

Sede Catholic, Thank you so much for the kind and welcoming words. :) It means so much to me to have so many strangers lifting me up in prayer.

Philomena, I am glad things are cleared up. I appreciate your guidance.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #173 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:32:23 AM »

I want to also say that I really am taking the advice of seeking spiritual counsel from a traditional priest to heart. The idea of needing fatherly guidance really does resonate with me, and I need to make this happen. I am starting to see the value of having fatherly spiritual direction before seeking a husband. Maybe one will lead to the other.

I have hesitated to take this step for a number of reasons. Please pray for me that I have courage to make contact this week, and pray that I receive good counsel and that my heart stays open so I may submit to his holy guidance.

Thank you.

P.S. Is this there a way to tell if a poster is male or female if their screenname doesn't make it obvious? I am afraid I am going to accidentally address someone the wrong way.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #174 on:** July 08, 2012, 11:22:01 AM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

When I go to mass I always leave feeling very good. It would be very hard to stay home today and not have that feeling. I am wondering if the feeling is all in my head and is really a pride thing, or if God gives me this feeling of grace even if I at the wrong mass, as to slowly guide me the right direction?

I can't say for certain about which one it is. But I think over time, you will understand why the Novus Ordo is wrong. Most Traditional Catholics here didn't realize it overnight, it took them a while to get it. I didn't grow up during Vatican II, so the NO was all I ever knew until I attended my first TLM in 2007. I haven't been back to the NO since 08 or 09, and I don't miss it. The TLM is the Mass that I love.

Quote

Please pray for me that I have courage to make contact this week, and pray that I receive good counsel and that my heart stays open so I may submit to his holy guidance.

Will do.

Quote

Is this there a way to tell if a poster is male or female if their screenname doesn't make it obvious? I am afraid I am going to accidentally address someone the wrong way.

I try to look at their posting style and behavior, sometimes that will make it obvious what sex they are.

And you probably already figured it out, but just to clarify, I'm a male.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #175 on:** July 08, 2012, 03:24:27 PM »

Thanks.

Yes, I knew you were man.

Thorn · « **Reply #176 on:** July 08, 2012, 03:31:18 PM »

Nadir, you just don't get it, do you? You falsely accused me of being cruel & hard on Penitent & I responded with a left-handed comment to you to let you know that, w/o being overt; to which you chirped back, "No need to take offense."!! I'm not supposed to be offended by being accused of cruelty? You call me cruel, then turn around & cruelly accuse me!! No, don't apologize. Let's leave it go. Penitent didn't think I was too hard on her so what's your problem? Penitent is thirsting for the truth & I wanted to see who she really was. Wallflower, I simply wanted to get to the bottom of the problems I was having with Penitent's story. I wasn't prying or asking for the nitty-gritty or asking inappropriate questions. She had a seemingly endless list of bad happenings & I just wanted to know if him beating her was being added to the list. So yes, you could say I did cross-examine her. Since she was so steeped in the NO & current American culture all her life & innocent of traditional behavior, she apparently answered inappropriately. In a way I can see that good has come of this, as people saw ( I didn't, as the post was deleted) the ugly, devastating face of those unfortunate people in the NO & what has been put in their minds. This is what passes for normal behavior & talk in our country now. A spiritual tragedy that looks like that recent tsunami that washed away all those cars, buildings, etc. We are living in a cesspool & we go on our merry way.

My final (hopefully) words to Penitent is: ( prepare for the blunt truth again- but I believe you can take it) You don't go to church to 'feel good'. That's pure NO. You go to give worship & honor to Almighty God who deserves it & even demands it in the Commandments.
Many of us want God to conform to our will, but we must strive hard to conform to God's will. You may have a long, hard road ahead of you, but you can do it.
I, too, wanted to dance with the devil & I am still paying the price. But when you conform your will to God, there really is joy & peace that really does surpass understanding. You will be lonely because you are choosing to follow the narrow road & not too many people want to travel that road. So accept that too & offer it up. Don't worry about it, as later you will have a new circle of friend & new experiences. Life is good & exciting! Just give it all you've got & leave the rest to God to handle. Pray to the Blessed Mother throughtout the day as she knows exactly what you're going thro. God Bless.

Nishant · « **Reply #177 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:06:52 AM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

Quote from: Nishant2011
Really, PW, why do you imagine a mostly anonymous (or at the least totally unknown to you anyway) layman or laywoman is qualified to teach you anything? You'll also find as many opinions as there are heads, which I think will only leave you even more worried at what to truly do. Talk to a priest, he is the person appointed by God for precisely such a thing, he will also be competent to do it properly, and take care only to follow the advice he gives you.

I don't mean to teach me about the faith. I just like to know what people who think that holding my head high is self-righteous think that I should do and how I should conduct myself. That is what brought me here. Searching treatment of unwed mothers in the Traditional Catholic Church. I wanted to know what to expect.

First, I find a website where the priest says people should not even attend a baby shower of an unwed mother. Next, I found this board. If I should wear a scarlet letter, then I want to hear it. I don't know why I always want to hear from harsh people.

All right, PW. Fair enough. Am also glad to hear you decided to give seeking the advice of your confessor another go. God bless you.

ggreg · « **Reply #178 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:48:32 AM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

I think it will just have to be accepted that for some men, my situation or one like it would be a deal breaker. That stings to me, I guess, but maybe there is a reason for it.

FAR from all good Catholic men would think like that. I'm a lifelong Traditionalist and I would have been happy to marry a single mother; especially one who had learned from her mistakes. All things being equal would I choose a single mother over an identical woman with no children? No, that would be somewhat perverse, but all things never are equal and two directly comparable women rarely exist. I might well choose a 23 year old single mother who took her faith seriously over a more naive, less intelligent and less passionate, less pious woman.

In fact, at 43 and with 5 children and very happily married, I could tell you that some of the women I have the greatest respect for are single mothers. I know several women whose husbands have left them and I admire them enormously for their fortitude and courage to work hard and raise their children. Like you they each have one child.

Most ladies I didn't ask out I found too boring and lacking in strong opinions. The most important thing for me when getting married was to find someone who could stand up to me as I tend to be very dominant with women.

Trads vary from country to country. The ones who are outwardly very strict, almost to the point of obsession, and very focused on externals are probably wise for you to avoid as they will see your situation mostly from a negative perspective.

You only need to marry one man and there are Catholics who will say to themselves that people are multi-faceted and every cloud has a silver lining.

My advice and I know the world of Tradom better than most having been in it from the start, would be to consider a man who was around 30-35 years old (more likely to have an income which would let you stay at home and homeschool your children) and who goes to the indult masses rather than the SSPX.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #179 on:** July 09, 2012, 09:10:14 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

FAR from all good Catholic men would think like that. I'm a lifelong Traditionalist and I would have been happy to marry a single mother; especially one who had learned from her mistakes. All things being equal would I choose a single mother over an identical woman with no children? No, that would be somewhat perverse, but all things never are equal and two directly comparable women rarely exist. I might well choose a 23 year old single mother who took her faith seriously over a more naive, less intelligent and less passionate, less pious woman.

The outward piety of an unwed mother, or any woman for that matter, does not speak necessarily to her fitness as a wife. A woman's holiness walks hand-in-hand with her chastity and her fidelity. Without the latter, the former is all too often a veneer designed to attract a man.

Quote from: ggreg

In fact, at 43 and with 5 children and very happily married, I could tell you that some of the women I have the greatest respect for are single mothers. I know several women whose husbands have left them and I admire them enormously for their fortitude and courage to work hard and raise their children. Like you they each have one child.

Apples and oranges. We're talking about unwed mothers, not about a woman whose lawful husband has abandoned his family, nor would I expect that anyone in her parish or chapel to treat her with anything other than love, sympathy and respect. She continues to maintain the vow of her matrimony despite the abandonment of her spouse.

Quote from: ggreg

Most ladies I didn't ask out I found too boring and lacking in strong opinions. The most important thing for me when getting married was to find someone who could stand up to me as I tend to be very dominant with women.

Good idea. A spouse that challenges your position of spiritual and temporal dominion over the family is such a treasure. You tend to be dominant with women because God intended men to be dominant over women. That is not to say that that domination need be harsh; indeed the harmony of a household is found in man and woman fulfilling those roles for which their gender was intended. It is the confusion of those roles that leads to all strife in the family.

Quote from: ggreg

Trads vary from country to country. The ones who are outwardly very strict, almost to the point of obsession, and very focused on externals are probably wise for you to avoid as they will see your situation mostly from a negative perspective.

Of course. People that are outwardly very strict aren't simply concerned with maintaining as upright appearance as possible for the prevention of scandal in the face of an ungodly world, including an institution that claims the same identity while being a systematized factory of child rape. It's only because they're superficial.

Quote from: ggreg

You only need to marry one man and there are Catholics who will say to themselves that people are multi-faceted and every cloud has a silver lining.

You mean Catholics that say that not everyone has to agree? That principles pursuant to the faith aren't important? That we can embrace situations that put us in danger of occasions of sin because of a misconstrued understanding of Providence? God will help keep us in grace if we cooperate with Him by not placing ourselves in situations where the opportunity to sin is disproportionately high. Are you really trying to tell me that a woman that has engaged in illicit sɛҳuąƖ behavior outside of marriage is not significantly more likely to commit sins against chastity or fidelity than a woman that has been totally innocent of men? Be serious.

Quote from: ggreg

My advice and I know the world of Tradom better than most having been in it from the start, would be to consider a man who was around 30-35 years old (more likely to have an income which would let you stay at home and homeschool your children) and who goes to the indult masses rather than the SSPX.

Translation: Seek a milktoast meal-ticket that subscribes to socially conservative modernism.