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Author Topic: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?  (Read 17869 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
« Reply #105 on: March 16, 2022, 08:53:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 16, 2022, 08:43:35 PM
    I'm one who thinks that Pius XII did do it, but too late and imperfectly, ...

    I totally disagree.  He didn't do it.  And the fact that he shorted Our Lady was almost an insult to her.

    Pius XII did nothing but preside over the destruction of the Church.  He's responsible for Vatican II more than any other single individual (apart from Satan himself).

    Not only did he fail to avert it by making a very simple act of consecration, but he ...

    1) installed, during his lengthy reign, nearly every bishop that would go on to bring us the glories of Vatican II,
    2) opened the door (and the floodgates) to evolution and atheistic science in general
    3) opened the floodgates to "Catholic birth control" by condoning NFP (even for "eugenic" reasons)
    4) started tampering with the Sacred Litrugy (set Bugnini in motion, approved the Holy Week changes, promoted Dialog Masses, and allowed liturgical experimentation like the "Mass of the Future")
    5) failed to condemn Cardinal Cushing (and defend Father Feeney), thereby presiding over the complete collapse of faith in EENS and in Catholic ecclesiology ... leading directly to Vatican II
    6) sponsored some of the first Ecuмenical gatherings
    7) many people try to pretend this is just a modern problem, but the Lavender Maffia was becoming well entrenched already during the reign of Pius XII.  Many credible accusations of priestly pedophilia go back to the 1950s.
    8) when he found out about Montini ratting out clerics behind the Iron Curtain (leading to their executions), he punished Montini severely by ... sending him to Milan, only without a Cardinal cap.

    We can probably think of more ... much more.

    Apart from defining the Dogma of the Assumption, which had little practical impact on the Church, what did this man do but destroy and set the stage for destruction?

    Was he spending way too much of his time (scandalously) with the Popessa? (that entire thing was a terrible scandal, whether or not anything sinful happened there.  St. Pius X wouldn't ride in a carriage with his own sister lest he cause scandal among those who didn't know they were related).
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #106 on: March 16, 2022, 09:12:20 PM »
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    • I believe one who consecrates needs Sanctifying Grace.  IF not, they do not abide in God, now does God abide in them.

    It won't happen.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #107 on: March 16, 2022, 09:15:04 PM »
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    • No need to contrive scandal implying he was unchaste.

    I'm not saying that he was a model Pope, as it is clear he not only inherited the Modernists from the laxity of Benedict XV and Pius XI, but also appeared to lack the constitution to stand up to them. Yet, he still did an imperfect consecration in Sacro Vergente Anno. And it being imperfect is why things still turned out the way they did.

    Fr. Jenkins, in the video I posted above, points out that Pius XII was surrounded by Modernist bishops so there would have been no way to get them on-board to meet the demands of Our Lady. If you want to point the finger, point it at Pius XI for failing to do the consecration in 1929, or even Benedict XV for choosing to play ball with the Modernists rather than censuring them like St. Pius X.

    In the end, we can point to what he did and did not do and go crazy speculating on his motivations.

    Further, NOW shows that Pius XII still fits the bill as the "Fatima Pope"


    Quote
    In very truth, Pope Pius XII is the “Pope of Fatima”, and not only because of his consecration of Russia in 1952.

    In 1917, Pope Benedict XV selected then-Mgr. Eugenio Pacelli to become a bishop, and the date picked for the consecration was May 13. It turned out that Pacelli was consecrated “at the very hour” that Our Lady’s first apparition at Fatima took place, by the very Pope whom Jacinta would miraculously see in a vision “in a very large house” as “kneeling before a little table, weeping, with his head between his hands” (see Walter H. Peters, The Life of Benedict XV [Milwaukee, WI: Bruce Publishing, 1959], pp. 141, 217. Disclaimer: commissions earned).

    Not only was Pope Pius XII made a bishop on the same day and hour of the first Fatima apparition, however: In 1944 he introduced the feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary to the universal Roman calendar (August 22), he consecrated the people of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in 1952, as noted, and he personally witnessed a repeat of the miracle of the sun in the Vatican Gardens, not once or twice, but as many as four times, in late October and early November 1950, around the time he solemnly proclaimed the dogma of the Assumption. (The original Miracle of the Sun took place on Oct. 13, 1917, before tens of thousands of people.)

    If anyone deserves the title “Fatima Pope”, it is Pius XII.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #108 on: March 16, 2022, 09:18:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 16, 2022, 09:15:04 PM
    No need to dig up scandal implying he was unchaste.

    No, he created scandal by hanging out with a young nun since 1917 and constantly having her by his side.  He's responsible for all of it, including the scandal.  There's no evidence one way or the other, but he created scandal with that whole situation.  There's plenty of need to call him out for that garbage.

    In a Church with 10s of thousands of priests, he couldn't find one to serve as a suitable personal assistant, or an older nun if he needed a housekeeper?

    What would you say if a Traditional priest dragged a young nun with him from one assignement to another?  Let's say an SSPX had a younger (and attractive) nun who he had as his secretary at a rectory and then when he got transferred, he took her with him.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #109 on: March 16, 2022, 09:20:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 16, 2022, 09:15:04 PM
    Yet, he still did an imperfect consecration in Sacro Vergente Anno.

    That "imperfect consecration" was an insult to Our Lady.  She asked for A and he gave her B.  It might as well be an outright rejection of her request.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #110 on: March 16, 2022, 09:21:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 16, 2022, 09:15:04 PM
    Fr. Jenkins, in the video I posted above, points out that Pius XII was surrounded by Modernist bishops ...

    He APPOINTED MOST OF THOSE MODERNIST BISHOPS.  He could on a whim remove any single one of them.  Come on, now.  He's the Pope, and the Pope is a monarch in the Church, an absolute ruler.

    St. Pius X called bishops into his office regularly to depose them.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #111 on: March 16, 2022, 09:24:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 16, 2022, 09:15:04 PM
    Further, NOW shows that Pius XII still fits the bill as the "Fatima Pope"

    Pius XII was the non-Fatima pope.  This is ridiculous.  He refused to do the consecration as requested by Our Lady and that among all his other actions listed above brought on the destruction of Vatican II.

    Apart from doing the consecration, his chief duty was to find and appoint good Traditionally-minded bishops, and he appointed a gaggle of scuм and villainy to the episcopacy all over the world.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #112 on: March 16, 2022, 09:25:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 16, 2022, 09:18:36 PM
    No, he created scandal by hanging out with a young nun since 1917 and constantly having her by his side.  He's responsible for all of it, including the scandal.  There's no evidence one way or the other, but he created scandal with that whole situation.  There's plenty of need to call him out for that garbage.

    In a Church with 10s of thousands of priests, he couldn't find one to serve as a suitable personal assistant, or an older nun if he needed a housekeeper?

    What would you say if a Traditional priest dragged a young nun with him from one assignement to another?  Let's say an SSPX had a younger (and attractive) nun who he had as his secretary at a rectory and then when he got transferred, he took her with him.
    It's beyond the point here, as you're still talking about the last legitimate Supreme Pontiff who deserves respect, not the accusations of what may or may not have occurred behind closed doors with an assistant.

    Quote from: Ladislaus on March 16, 2022, 09:20:08 PM
    That "imperfect consecration" was an insult to Our Lady.  She asked for A and he gave her B.  It might as well be an outright rejection of her request.
    Hindsight is 20-20, as I already said we are suffering for his insult today. 
    Again, he was already neck-deep in a swamp by the 50s, yet he still followed through with what he did and I'm seeing a consecration of Russia here and the intent to do so, despite the lack of all the bishops and despite nit-picking about it being "the peoples of Russia" rather than just "Russia":

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    We, therefore, in order that our prayers and yours may be more easily answered, and to give you a singular attestation of Our special benevolence, as a few years ago we consecrated the whole world to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mother of God, so now, in a very special way, we consecrate all the peoples of Russia to the same Immaculate Heart, in the sure confidence that with the most powerful patronage of the Virgin Mary the vows will be happily fulfilled as soon as possible, we consecrate all the peoples of Russia to the same immaculate Heart, confident that with the most powerful patronage of the Virgin Mary, the vows which we, you, and all good people make for true peace, fraternal concord, and due freedom for all, and first of all for the Church, will be fulfilled as soon as possible; so that, through the prayer which We raise together with you and all Christians, the saving kingdom of Christ, which is “the kingdom of truth and life, the kingdom of holiness and grace, the kingdom of justice, love and peace” [Preface of Christ the King], in every part of the earth may triumph and be firmly established.

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    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #113 on: March 16, 2022, 09:41:27 PM »
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    • The consecration has not been accomplished!

    1. Where is the triumph of the Immaculate Heart?
    2. Where is the end of Modernism, and Vatican II?
    3. Where is the conversion of Russia?
    4. where is the period of real peace?
    5. Where is the Grace and virtue and the conversion of sinners?

    Pacamama reigns in the eternal city, not Mary!

    In the book of Ecclesiasticus, God both promises and threatens the chosen people. Those who believed in Christ, then and now, got the promises. Those who didn't, then and now, got the doom. Both things happened. The same thing is going to happen with Fatima. We will see the Triumph of Mary, but not until the hard-hearted have brought us the literal, physically annihilation of one or more nations. It's ALL going to happen because it was foretold, good and bad. It always does. Until the real, final consecration happens, we have to consecrate ourselves, our lives, and whatever is in our power, so that WE at least are saved.

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    Offline Comrade

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #114 on: March 16, 2022, 10:18:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Shrewd Operator on March 16, 2022, 09:41:27 PM
    The consecration has not been accomplished!

    1. Where is the triumph of the Immaculate Heart?
    2. Where is the end of Modernism, and Vatican II?
    3. Where is the conversion of Russia?
    4. where is the period of real peace?
    5. Where is the Grace and virtue and the conversion of sinners?

    Pacamama reigns in the eternal city, not Mary!

    In the book of Ecclesiasticus, God both promises and threatens the chosen people. Those who believed in Christ, then and now, got the promises. Those who didn't, then and now, got the doom. Both things happened. The same thing is going to happen with Fatima. We will see the Triumph of Mary, but not until the hard-hearted have brought us the literal, physically annihilation of one or more nations. It's ALL going to happen because it was foretold, good and bad. It always does. Until the real, final consecration happens, we have to consecrate ourselves, our lives, and whatever is in our power, so that WE at least are saved.


    The Consecration did happen but unfortunately it was late. Our Lord even foretold it. It should be of no surprise that they failed. Don't forget that Stalin dies about a year after the consecration. I would call that an answer to our prayers. 

    What if Pius XII got all the bishops except for one? Would it still be imperfect?

    What does conversion of a nation really mean? Especially of a nation that is large and has an extreme negative attitude toward the Catholic Church. If they simply stop persecuting the Catholic Church and stop interfering, that would be a pretty impressive miracle. I think most people think that every Russian would become practicing Catholics and the world would be an utopia.

    I have witness a lot of conversions. Within my small circle alone I have seen over a dozen people convert to the Catholic Faith in last 10 years. 








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    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #115 on: March 16, 2022, 10:31:11 PM »
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    • What does the conversion of a nation really mean!?

    What is truth?

    Bishop Williamson was right. We don't realize how liberal we are.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #116 on: March 16, 2022, 10:35:18 PM »
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    • Quote
    Further, NOW shows that Pius XII still fits the bill as the "Fatima Pope"
    :laugh1: :facepalm:  No, the pope who ACTUALLY fulfills Our Lady's requests, to the letter, will be the Fatima pope.



    Quote
    you're still talking about the last legitimate Supreme Pontiff who deserves respect
    No.  He deserves respect for the good he did and he deserves criticism for the bad he allowed.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #117 on: March 16, 2022, 11:07:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 16, 2022, 09:25:43 PM
    It's beyond the point here, as you're still talking about the last legitimate Supreme Pontiff who deserves respect, ...

    He deserves respect only to the extent that respect is owed to his office.  Do we respect personally the Borgia popes who went from mistress to mistress and destroyed the reputation of the Church?

    Quote
    Stephen VI, the successor of Boniface VI, influenced by Lambert and Agiltrude, sat in judgment of Formosus in 897, in what is known as the Cadaver Synod. The corpse was disinterred, clad in papal vestments, and seated on a throne to face all the charges from John VIII. The verdict was that the deceased had been unworthy of the pontificate. The damnatio memoriae was applied to Formosus, all his measures and acts were annulled, and the orders conferred by him were declared invalid. The papal vestments were torn from his body, the three fingers from his right hand he had used in blessings were cut off, and the corpse was thrown into the Tiber, later to be retrieved by a monk.


    We also had the cases of Liberius and Honorius.

    Not every pope deserves to be honored for their personal conduct while holding office.  Some saints have suggested that if a Pope isn't a saint, he's likely in hell.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #118 on: March 16, 2022, 11:55:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Shrewd Operator on March 16, 2022, 10:31:11 PM
    What does the conversion of a nation really mean!?

    What is truth?

    Bishop Williamson was right. We don't realize how liberal we are.

    Good questions. I agree that we don't realize how liberal we are. Very true! Bishop Williamson is correct.

    Most don't care about being liberal. Fitting in with the world is a good thing to many trads, IMO. It can be tiresome to always be at odds with the modern world. Most give in, to a certain extent. It's simply fallen human nature, which trads don't really don't have a safeguard against.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pope to Consecrate Russia/Ukraine on March 25?!?
    « Reply #119 on: March 17, 2022, 12:18:53 AM »
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    • :laugh2:
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