Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Incredulous on September 05, 2023, 11:02:07 AM
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Bp. Williamson has included in his lectures, a discussion of Pope Leo XIII's "difficult deathbed".
Implying that is was spiritually difficult with no specifics.
Did it have to do with his mistaken selection of Cardinal (OTO) Rampolla as his Secretary of State?
Interestingly, we find that the dying Pontiff had prepared a soliloquy which indicates he was very prepared to meet his own death.
If anyone has any insight into the "difficult deathbed" history, please enlighten us.
(https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/posters/pope-leo-xiii-receiving-the-last-rites-on-his-deathbed-1903_u-L-Q1MNXUS0.jpg?artPerspective=n)
(https://i.imgur.com/kvWsbkR.png)
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Does "OTO" here mean "Ordo Templi Orientis" (occult order similar to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ)?
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Does "OTO" here mean "Ordo Templi Orientis" (occult order similar to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ)?
Yes.
Rampolla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWi3vig9o7M)
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roscoe in ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 :laugh1:
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With someone of such profound responsibilities, he may have been troubled by the thought of how he might have made mistakes. He was a bit on the liberal side in some respects, and the Modernists pounced on his Encyclical Providentissimus Deus to exploit some passages that were easily hijacked and misinterpreted.
He was responsible for every bishop he appointed.
I know that THE number one responsibility of a pope is to appoint good bishops. If I were Pope, I would do little else besides personally see to a staunch Traditionalist bishop in every diocese. Then condemning errors that required condemnation. No audiences (except for choosing bishops), no public speeches, no travelling tours, etc. Certainly in every diocese one could find a solid Traditionally-minded priest to elevate to the episcopacy. Too often, however, popes just selected those with the right "credentials," those who studied at the right schools and got the right degrees. Huge mistake. Pope Pius XII did the poorest job of all, appointing nearly every bishop that would give us Vatican II. He went with the guy in each diocese who had the degree from Rome and those with the right "pedigrees". I would pick the most holy and well-educated priest who could be found in each diocese that was a staunch Traditionalist. I would select a St. John Vianney to be a bishop over any of these guys with their degrees. I would personally find and investigate every single potential candidate, and I would remove all the bad ones. If I even sniffed the slightest bit of liberalism, he'd be gone. And I would also be doing an act of charity for him by doing so. Of course, nowadays, the first official act of a Traditionalist Pope would be to immediately depose EVERY SINGLE Conciliar bishop, and then possibly rehabilitating a couple here and there, like a Bishop Schneider. But I think the number that remained of the Conciliars could be counted on one hand.
Pope Pius XII's corpse exploded after his death. Although we know the cause, an absurd alternative preservation method, it could also be seen as a sign from God, as Pius XII allowed Modernism to flourish absolutely unchecked by any countermeasure and appointed nearly every bishop during his lengthy reign that would bring us Vatican II.
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Great points!
I didn’t know this about Pope Pius XII.
My guess on the weaknesses of Pope Leo XIII’s pontificate may be related to nepotism.
The Church was under incredible pressure to make concessions and compromises to European governments.
In this environment it was tempting to trust only family & friends in Vatican administrative assignments.
But that is also a tactic that leads to corruption and security breaches.
Rampolla wasn’t vetted properly and the jew-Brit “flesh pot” converso, John Newman, should have never been made a Cardinal.
By Divine Providence, the Pope was able to forsee the Church infiltration via his penning of the St. Michael prayer (excerpt)
“These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where the See of Holy Peter and the Chair of Truth has been set up as the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered.”
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A mystic of the time, cannot remember which, said that Our Lady was not pleased with Leo because he was too concerned with advancing his family. (Pecci)
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With someone of such profound responsibilities, he may have been troubled by the thought of how he might have made mistakes. He was a bit on the liberal side in some respects, and the Modernists pounced on his Encyclical Providentissimus Deus to exploit some passages that were easily hijacked and misinterpreted.
He was responsible for every bishop he appointed.
I know that THE number one responsibility of a pope is to appoint good bishops. If I were Pope, I would do little else besides personally see to a staunch Traditionalist bishop in every diocese. Then condemning errors that required condemnation. No audiences (except for choosing bishops), no public speeches, no travelling tours, etc. Certainly in every diocese one could find a solid Traditionally-minded priest to elevate to the episcopacy. Too often, however, popes just selected those with the right "credentials," those who studied at the right schools and got the right degrees. Huge mistake. Pope Pius XII did the poorest job of all, appointing nearly every bishop that would give us Vatican II. He went with the guy in each diocese who had the degree from Rome and those with the right "pedigrees". I would pick the most holy and well-educated priest who could be found in each diocese that was a staunch Traditionalist. I would select a St. John Vianney to be a bishop over any of these guys with their degrees. I would personally find and investigate every single potential candidate, and I would remove all the bad ones. If I even sniffed the slightest bit of liberalism, he'd be gone. And I would also be doing an act of charity for him by doing so. Of course, nowadays, the first official act of a Traditionalist Pope would be to immediately depose EVERY SINGLE Conciliar bishop, and then possibly rehabilitating a couple here and there, like a Bishop Schneider. But I think the number that remained of the Conciliars could be counted on one hand.
Pope Pius XII's corpse exploded after his death. Although we know the cause, an absurd alternative preservation method, it could also be seen as a sign from God, as Pius XII allowed Modernism to flourish absolutely unchecked by any countermeasure and appointed nearly every bishop during his lengthy reign that would bring us Vatican II.
Lad,
Can you give more info on Pius XII's corpse exploding? I never heard that before.
I know Montini stunk the place up. But did not know about the former. Thanks.
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Lad,
Can you give more info on Pius XII's corpse exploding? I never heard that before.
I know Montini stunk the place up. But did not know about the former. Thanks.
Yes, here's one treatment of it, but you can find more by Googling for "Pius XII corpse exploded".
https://medium.com/the-collector/explosion-of-pope-pius-xii-e9151906929
We know that the natural cause was the ridiculous embalming job of Galeazzi-Lisi, but still makes me wonder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riccardo_Galeazzi-Lisi
The treatment was completely opposite to the ordinary embalming style. Instead of draining bodily fluids and keeping the cadaver cold, Galeazzi-Lisi covered the corpse with a plastic bag, inside which he placed herbs and spices. Virtually eliminating the air circulation, he dramatically accelerated the anaerobic putrefaction. According to the press, the body literally decomposed before the eyes of the mourners, during the procession from Castel Gandolfo to Rome. Despite Galeazzi-Lisi's efforts, decomposition was unstoppable: the Pope's chest exploded due to gaseous accuмulation, the nose and fingers fell off and the body reportedly turned into an "emerald green" (or black, depending on the source) color. The stench was so acrid that some Swiss Guards fainted, and had to be rotated every 15 minutes.
I personally believe that Pius XII was being poisoned during his last 5-6 years. During that time, he was almost completely debilitated and letting the Curia run the Church, and it's possible that the Holy Week Rites were pushed through with little complicity on his part.
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Deleted because lad already answered.
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There is a detailed description of the failed 'embalming' practices etc in the book 'O Vatican' by Paul Hoffmann.
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Yes, here's one treatment of it, but you can find more by Googling for "Pius XII corpse exploded".
https://medium.com/the-collector/explosion-of-pope-pius-xii-e9151906929
We know that the natural cause was the ridiculous embalming job of Galeazzi-Lisi, but still makes me wonder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riccardo_Galeazzi-Lisi
I personally believe that Pius XII was being poisoned during his last 5-6 years. During that time, he was almost completely debilitated and letting the Curia run the Church, and it's possible that the Holy Week Rites were pushed through with little complicity on his part.
Thank you so much, Lad and Philip. What a story. Much to ponder. The aspect of the story regarding the stench is pretty much the same as with Montini. I tend to think symbolically. Like you, I can read a lot of meaning into this tale. Hmmm.......
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Thank you so much, Lad and Philip. What a story. Much to ponder. The aspect of the story regarding the stench is pretty much the same as with Montini. I tend to think symbolically. Like you, I can read a lot of meaning into this tale. Hmmm.......
Yeah, while we know the natural causes of this problem, everything that happens takes place by God's will. God allowed Pius XII to select Geleazzi-Lisi to by his physician and then request that his organs not be removed, etc.
Pope Pius XII did in fact usher in the Vatican II era:
1) failed to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the manner that Our Lady requested
2) opened the door to evolution (which has led to a massive loss of faith among Catholics)
3) opened the door to the use of NFP as Catholic Birth Control with some ill-advised speculation and complete lack of clarity regarding the principles, just using a vague term "serious reason"
4) set up Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentation (even Roncalli kicked Bugnini out)
5) allowed some bizarre one-off liturgical experiments
6) permitted the first "Ecuмenical" meetings
7) allowed Father Feeney to be persecuted while doing nothing about the rampant heresy regarding EENS, from the likes of Cardinal "No salvation outside the Church? Nonsense" Cushing
8) did nothing to stamp out Modernism and remove Modernists from their teaching positions
9) appointed, during his long reign, nearly every single Bishop would later bring us Vatican II
His was indeed a watershed papacy, and his "after me, the deluge" quote was prophetic, except that he knew it was coming because he had seen it unfold in front of his eyes but took no action to stop it. I think that he was in fact the "Fatima Pope" (having been consecrated a bishop on the exact day of the miracle of the sun), but not for good reasons. He was the Pope of whom Our Lord complained to Sister Lucy that they were following the example of the Kings of France (who refused to make the consecration of France to His Sacred Heart). He was the Pope that was SUPPOSED to make the consecration, but failed to do so. And the aftermath of his papacy was what was being warned about in the Third Secret. Had he simply complied with Our Lady's request to perform the consecration in the manner that she requested, Vatican II and the loss of millions of souls that resulted would not have happened. It's terrible to think about.
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Yeah, while we know the natural causes of this problem, everything that happens takes place by God's will. God allowed Pius XII to select Geleazzi-Lisi to by his physician and then request that his organs not be removed, etc.
Pope Pius XII did in fact usher in the Vatican II era:
1) failed to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the manner that Our Lady requested
2) opened the door to evolution (which has led to a massive loss of faith among Catholics)
3) opened the door to the use of NFP as Catholic Birth Control with some ill-advised speculation and complete lack of clarity regarding the principles, just using a vague term "serious reason"
4) set up Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentation (even Roncalli kicked Bugnini out)
5) allowed some bizarre one-off liturgical experiments
6) permitted the first "Ecuмenical" meetings
7) allowed Father Feeney to be persecuted while doing nothing about the rampant heresy regarding EENS, from the likes of Cardinal "No salvation outside the Church? Nonsense" Cushing
8) did nothing to stamp out Modernism and remove Modernists from their teaching positions
9) appointed, during his long reign, nearly every single Bishop would later bring us Vatican II
His was indeed a watershed papacy, and his "after me, the deluge" quote was prophetic, except that he knew it was coming because he had seen it unfold in front of his eyes but took no action to stop it. I think that he was in fact the "Fatima Pope" (having been consecrated a bishop on the exact day of the miracle of the sun), but not for good reasons. He was the Pope of whom Our Lord complained to Sister Lucy that they were following the example of the Kings of France (who refused to make the consecration of France to His Sacred Heart). He was the Pope that was SUPPOSED to make the consecration, but failed to do so. And the aftermath of his papacy was what was being warned about in the Third Secret. Had he simply complied with Our Lady's request to perform the consecration in the manner that she requested, Vatican II and the loss of millions of souls that resulted would not have happened. It's terrible to think about.
I agree with you!!! Frere Michel's work is a sad account of this most unfortunate papacy.
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Yes, an excellent analysis of the grievous problems of Pius XII’s pontificate which called for Heaven’s response.
Lads’ went where most trads dare not to go. 😉
BTW, Chiesa Viva has offered strong evidence that Lisi had high level masonic connections and was the likely papal assassin.
At the time, the masons were scrambling to install a pope who would position Montini for the papacy.
Not knowing the full extent of his crimes, the Italians still kicked Lisi out of Rome after the Pope’s death.
And not surprisingly, Lisi played the victim’s role :facepalm:
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Yes, here's one treatment of it, but you can find more by Googling for "Pius XII corpse exploded".
https://medium.com/the-collector/explosion-of-pope-pius-xii-e9151906929
We know that the natural cause was the ridiculous embalming job of Galeazzi-Lisi, but still makes me wonder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riccardo_Galeazzi-Lisi
I personally believe that Pius XII was being poisoned during his last 5-6 years. During that time, he was almost completely debilitated and letting the Curia run the Church, and it's possible that the Holy Week Rites were pushed through with little complicity on his part.
This is incorrect. Pius Xii was ill in 1954 but recovered & was healthy until a few months b4 passing. These attacks on Card Rampolla & Pius XII are absurd.
" I have always had a great respect for Card Rampolla"-- Pope St Pius X.
Do the bashers actually expect us to believe them over Il Papa? :laugh1:
I have not yet had a chance to watch the Ytube clip but I imagine it will be some Dimonds( Diamonds) Bravo Shinola...
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This is incorrect. Pius Xii was ill in 1954 but recovered & was healthy until a few months b4 passing.
Not true. I've cited the evidence that he was ill from 1954 on.
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These attacks on Card Rampolla & Pius XII are absurd.
I don't know enough about Rampolla to have any comment, but exactly which criticism I made above about Pius XII was incorrect? They're all factually true and verifiable.
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Pope Pius XII did in fact usher in the Vatican II era:
1) failed to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the manner that Our Lady requested
2) opened the door to evolution (which has led to a massive loss of faith among Catholics)
3) opened the door to the use of NFP as Catholic Birth Control with some ill-advised speculation and complete lack of clarity regarding the principles, just using a vague term "serious reason"
4) set up Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentation (even Roncalli kicked Bugnini out)
5) allowed some bizarre one-off liturgical experiments
6) permitted the first "Ecuмenical" meetings
7) allowed Father Feeney to be persecuted while doing nothing about the rampant heresy regarding EENS, from the likes of Cardinal "No salvation outside the Church? Nonsense" Cushing
8) did nothing to stamp out Modernism and remove Modernists from their teaching positions
9) appointed, during his long reign, nearly every single Bishop would later bring us Vatican II
So, roscoe, please explain which is these points is not true.
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" I have always had a great respect for Card Rampolla"-- Pope St Pius X.
Do the bashers actually expect us to believe them over Il Papa? :laugh1:
So? St. Pius X could have been hoodwinked by him also. Infiltrators excel at acting. St. Pius X didn't have the gift of reading souls like a Padre Pio.
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So? St. Pius X could have been hoodwinked by him also. Infiltrators excel at acting. St. Pius X didn't have the gift of reading souls like a Padre Pio.
And perhaps the statement was falsely attributed to him or taken out of context. Remember, +Sarto's election was the result of a brutal shakeup that ended in the assassination of the Holy Roman Emperor. Rampolla almost got in, but for the veto. I can see the humility of St. Pius X making a comment that might be intended to soften bitter, hard, and fractious hearts - to heal gaping wounds caused by that heroic intervention.
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I can see the humility of St. Pius X making a comment that ...
That too.
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So, roscoe, please explain which is these points is not true.
All of them.... You are sick FE :popcorn: who thinks he is Il Papa
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Not true. I've cited the evidence that he was ill from 1954 on.
If you’ve read this book, you understand Pacelli’s Jєωιѕн side 😉
He was a natural nervous wreck and needed the efficiency of an ambitious Austrian Nun to take care of his household and to “mommy” him.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.2XLCI6PYIz2OIJkKxdM9YgHaD4%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=2e6828269b471aa5ae35514e831ab36626085852a8c8d369c4ac9d308cbd5ab1&ipo=images)
Pope Pius XII knew he was dying and one wonders if he had fatalistically accepted it as all part of the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic plan?
In addition to the charges of his “Duty of State” failures that Lad’s listed, I don’t see where he ever supported Cardinal Siri as his natural successor, who at the time was a favorite of the Holy See.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.NTIyh73Dalxvuh3Bgqm1GAHaE4%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=92dce3650cff9006b9e8e18023a1ad5a73fac909f4cf11d0fa71884b7e366a5e&ipo=images)
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If you’ve read this book, you understand Pacelli’s Jєωιѕн side 😉
He was a natural nervous wreck and needed the efficiency of an ambitious Austrian Nun to take care of his household and to “mommy” him.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.2XLCI6PYIz2OIJkKxdM9YgHaD4%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=2e6828269b471aa5ae35514e831ab36626085852a8c8d369c4ac9d308cbd5ab1&ipo=images)
Pope Pius XII knew he was dying and one wonders if he had fatalistically accepted it as all part of the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic plan?
In addition to the charges of his “Duty of State” failures that Lad’s listed, I don’t see where he ever supported Cardinal Siri as his natural successor, who at the time was a favorite of the Holy See.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.NTIyh73Dalxvuh3Bgqm1GAHaE4%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=92dce3650cff9006b9e8e18023a1ad5a73fac909f4cf11d0fa71884b7e366a5e&ipo=images)
It is in La Popessa where I learned that Pius XII recovered from his 1954 illness. As for his "Jєωιѕн side" , I got nothing from the book that would suggest such. BTW-- It is well known that the Pope supported Card Siri-- quit spreading shinola. If Siri was the favorite of the "Holy See", the Pope IS the "Holy See" :cowboy:
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It is in La Popessa where I learned that Pius XII recovered from his 1954 illness. As for his "Jєωιѕн side" , I got nothing from the book that would suggest such. BTW-- It is well known that the Pope supported Card Siri-- quit spreading shinola. If Siri was the favorite of the "Holy See", the Pope IS the "Holy See" :cowboy:
Ouch Roscoe! :facepalm:
BTW, I happened upon one of your posts from 2008, where you at least admit that commercial jews (including the Pacelli's) were crawling around the Vatican from the Pontificate of Gregory XVI.
"Shinola"... a type of Italian liquor?
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A mystic of the time, cannot remember which, said that Our Lady was not pleased with Leo because he was too concerned with advancing his family.
I think you nailed it.... St. Gemma Galgani ?
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7wlkNDEaCro/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Concerning the book "LA Popessa", do not take that as an authority on anything of Pope Pius XII as well as Mother Pascalina. It was put out by a pseudo-journalist. He just showed up one day in Rome in the early 80's, got the see Mother Pascalina for a relatively short meeting one day, than put out that trash in short order.
You can get the most direct commentary on that incident in Fr Charles Murr's "The Godmother: Madre Pascalina, a feminine tour de force", 2017. He knew her as a seminarian starting in the early 70's until her death. In this book, she clearly denounces "LaPopessa".
While Fr Murr is, yes a Novus Ordo ordained priest, in my reading him and hearing some of his interviews, he comes off as truthful, consistent and serious. I haven't seen any reason to doubt him.
While I know much will be revealed on the last day, the office of the papacy is the most solemn office. It is easy to look back on some things and say"I would have done it this way" and the like.
Just something to consider. The 3 hour fast. Had he not lessened the Midnight requirement, there probably early on have been some good priests as well as many of the faithful that would yes, maintain the Catholic Faith and carry on the by offering or assisting at Holy Mass, but the times would not be so late. 1pm was the traditional latest Mass time. So, no Masses after that. If a traditional priest has 2 or 3 Masses, he would have to start the last one by that time. Under the older law, he could not even take water until finished with his last Mass.
Related, in a way, and pertinent to what the Catholic faithful today also benefit from is Pope Pius XII permitting late afternoon/evening Masses, if the local bishop thought there would be benefit to the faithful.
By his holiness permitting this, possible qualms of conscience was effectively lifted from the tradional priests and faithful. While, yes, epikeia could be invoked, how much more solace to the average Catholic it would provide in these turbulent times.
That is why it is important to charitably correct anyone who might innocently conclude that we have late Masses because of Paul VI's "permission" in the mid-60's for so called Vigil Masses". He brought that out so they could meet there obligation for Sunday assistance at Mass be fulfilled by attendance at their Mass at 4pm or later on Saturday.
That is from the usurper Paul VI. It is totally different from what Pope Pius XII permitted with later in the day Masses.
Pope Pius XII-Saturday is Saturday. Sunday is Sunday.
Paul VI - Saturday late afternoon on is like Sunday.
I know many on the board recognize this.
I just wanted to offer this here.
Joe
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Thanks for your inputs Joe, especially on the Rules of Fasting.
Actually, I admired Mother Pascalina who sounded incredibly competent.
One funny memory from La Popessa was Pope Pius XII coming back to his Vatican apartment after a High Mass and extended papal duties. To relax, the Pontiff turned on classical music (record player?) and let all of his finches out of their cages.
Imagine the scene of all the finches flying about in jubilation to the music. :jester:
Here's a brief video of Fr. Murr being interviewed about his book on her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoH8v9gOcHo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoH8v9gOcHo)
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And perhaps the statement was falsely attributed to him or taken out of context. Remember, +Sarto's election was the result of a brutal shakeup that ended in the assassination of the Holy Roman Emperor. Rampolla almost got in, but for the veto. I can see the humility of St. Pius X making a comment that might be intended to soften bitter, hard, and fractious hearts - to heal gaping wounds caused by that heroic intervention.
:confused:
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I don’t see where he ever supported Cardinal Siri as his natural successor, who at the time was a favorite of the Holy See.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.NTIyh73Dalxvuh3Bgqm1GAHaE4%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=92dce3650cff9006b9e8e18023a1ad5a73fac909f4cf11d0fa71884b7e366a5e&ipo=images)
My understanding == it is well known Card Siri was the favorite of Pius XII. :cowboy:
& BTW Il Papa Is the Holy See :popcorn: