Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: andy on January 17, 2022, 10:52:12 AM
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Fr. Szydlowski FSSPX was arrested in connection with covid sanitary restrictions week ago. Some say, there is 100+ individuals involved, including a few members of Polish army and the priest, who facilitated getting official covid passports without a jab while destroying actual vaccines.
Please say a prayer.
(https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/Smileys/default/pray.gif)
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Hmm...mixed thoughts on this one:
On the one hand, he clearly does not intend to comply, and that’s a great example.
On the other hand, using a fake pass could cause scandal by implying to others who are not privy to the deception that there’s nothing wrong with taking the jab ie., sends the exact opposite message as the (secret) noncompliance.
It’s for that reason I haven’t opted to go that route.
Now, a priest would be conscious of implying consent and thereby causing scandal, so this might be seen as indicating the priest has no moral objection to the abortion shot (ie., he accepts the SSPX position regarding moral liceity), but is only evading it on medical grounds.
Then again, it is Poland, and perhaps he was given a pass on the basis of religious exemption?
In any case, as recent articles on this forum have shown, paper cards are soon to be replaced by QR digital codes on your phone.
Now we understand why Obama wanted to give away all those millions of free cell phones.
https://www.obamaphone.com
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Here’s the story, but doesn’t add much:
(https://i.imgur.com/JhmDwBM.jpg)
https://m.pch24.pl/ks-lukasz-szydlowski-fsspx-zostal-aresztowany-sprawa-dotyczy-rezimu-sanitarnego/
[DeepL translation:]
Fr. Lukasz Szydlowski, FSSPX, who serves in Krakow, was arrested and taken by police to a detention center in Poznan. The official announcement states that the case has a "specific character" and that the charges against the priest are related to "activities under the sanitary regime.
Lukasz Szydlowski was arrested on January 10 in Krakow, where he serves in the local priory of the Brotherhood of St. Pius X. The priest was taken to a detention center in Poznań and is still being held there. It is not known how long he will remain in custody but the FSSPX priests assure that appropriate legal assistance was provided to Fr Lukasz Szydlowski immediately. - In this regard, all matters are being properly handled in accordance with Fr. Lukasz's wishes," reported Fr. Piotr Swierczek, FSSPX, during pastoral announcements.
- Due to the very specific nature of the case, we cannot provide information about the proceedings, but we assure you all that the charges brought against Fr. Lukasz relate solely to matters related to activities under the sanitary regime concerning the so-called Covid-19 - stated the Fraternity's statement, delivered by Fr. Piotr Swierczek.
The priest assured the faithful that the matter had been forwarded to the Superior General of the Confraternity of St. Pius X, and he was to assure of his prayers and give his blessing to Fr. Luke. - The Superior asks everyone to keep a peaceful heart grounded in the trust that Divine Providence and the Immaculate are watching over us all," said Fr. Piotr Swierczek. He also informed that the priests have not been authorized to give any information about Fr. Lukasz Szydlowski's situation.
Source: Facebook.com, FSSPX
WMa
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May God protect this brave priest.
Poland knows communism too well.
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May God protect this brave priest.
Poland knows communism too well.
Why "brave?"
Using a fake covid pass represents the OPPOSITE of bravery (ie., he was afraid to openly resist).
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Can you explain what is FSSPX. I envision half FSSP and half Pius X. Strange
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Can you explain what is FSSPX. I envision half FSSP and half Pius X. Strange
Fraternal
Society of
St.
Pius
X
They are more commonly known by this acronym in Europe, than by SSPX.
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Can you explain what is FSSPX. I envision half FSSP and half Pius X. Strange
I believe this is the correct acronym: Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Pii X, indeed used commonly in Europe.
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Why "brave?"
Using a fake covid pass represents the OPPOSITE of bravery (ie., he was afraid to openly resist).
From what I understand, the covid pass is real, the information is entered into governments databases as well. They just do not do the jab part and destroy the vax.
Now what is father's involvement in this? We do not know. I suspect that he is a recipient of that pretended "jab" he probably needed to perform some priestly duties.
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From what I understand, the covid pass is real, the information is entered into governments databases as well. They just do not do the jab part and destroy the vax.
Now what is father's involvement in this? We do not know. I suspect that he is a recipient of that pretended "jab" he probably needed to perform some priestly duties.
(https://i.imgur.com/rijFK2l.png)
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Why "brave?"
Using a fake covid pass represents the OPPOSITE of bravery (ie., he was afraid to openly resist).
You don't know why he used these and what the laws/regulations in Poland are.
I have no problem in general with what he did.
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From what I understand, the covid pass is real, the information is entered into governments databases as well. They just do not do the jab part and destroy the vax.
So the medical person squirted the syringe down the drain and filled out his certificate? How would anyone get caught doing this? From what you describe, it sounds like no one knew what happened in that room at the pharmacy or wherever except the priest and the person who was supposed to administer the drug but did not.
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(https://i.imgur.com/rijFK2l.png)
But you cannot naively expose yourself for tyranny either.
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But you cannot naively expose yourself for tyranny either.
So the ends justify the means?
I can take a morally illicit shot, so long as I can rationalize the good I can do as a consequence?
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So the medical person squirted the syringe down the drain and filled out his certificate? How would anyone get caught doing this? From what you describe, it sounds like no one knew what happened in that room at the pharmacy or wherever except the priest and the person who was supposed to administer the drug but did not.
It could have been a turn's state evidence where a nurse started talking. Or a setup.
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So the ends justify the means?
There is that double effect principle ...
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It could have been a turn's state evidence where a nurse started talking. Or a setup.
You are ignoring the problem is scandal:
A fake covid pass conveys complicity, Catholics will see the priest travelling freely, know it could only because he took the abortion shot, and say to themselves, "If he can take it, so can I."
That problem can't be sidestepped.
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It could have been a turn's state evidence where a nurse started talking. Or a setup.
This is possible but it seems unlikely. Most people who administer vaccine shots are not undercover police officers working for whatever government agency would prosecute this, which I don't even know what it would be. Your first theory is slightly more probable but not by much, that maybe the nurse was faking everyone and got caught somehow (how, again?) and agreed to turn over a list of everyone they had given a fake passport to in exchange for immunity.
I suspect the real story will come out eventually, probably in the not-too-distant future.
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So the ends justify the means?
I can take a morally illicit shot, so long as I can rationalize the good I can do as a consequence?
He probably doesn't think it's a sin to take the shot. Hasn't the SSPX come out publicly and said as much?
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There is that double effect principle ...
No.
Firstly, because there is still the unresolved matter of whether taking the shot it formal or material cooperation (and if the former, then double effect does not apply).
Secondly, because the Vatican (upon whose rationale the SSPX appeals for the alleged moral liceity, if in fact it is material cooperation) laid out the criterion to be present for moral liceity vis-a-vis the covid vax, and they clearly have not been met. The SSPX cannot appeal to the Vatican to claim moral liceity, but then ignore its conditions, and substitute its own more convenient conditions.
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He probably doesn't think it's a sin to take the shot. Hasn't the SSPX come out publicly and said as much?
That's what I suggested toward the beginning of the thread:
Given the SSPX position, he probably only opposes the shot from a safety risk.
If that weren't the case, then he would be prevented from using a fake covid pass because of the danger of scandal.
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You are ignoring the problem is scandal:
Believe or know, I totally realize that this is a slippery slope.
Being officially jabbed in the system when we are 100% sure that they will go hard after those who try to evade it is not very prudent IMHO. You make yourself a sitting duck by going this route.
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Believe or know, I totally realize that this is a slippery slope.
Being officially jabbed in the system when we are 100% sure that they will go hard after those who try to evade it is not very prudent IMHO. You make yourself a sitting duck by going this route.
That is why we have prelates like +Vigano, et al. telling us to prepare to suffer, pray for patience and perseverance, make reparation, and focus more on loving God rather than the tortures and persecutions (as Fr. Pagliarani reminds us).
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No.
Firstly, because there is still the unresolved matter of whether taking the shot it formal or material cooperation (and if the former, then double effect does not apply).
Secondly, because the Vatican (upon whose rationale the SSPX appeals for the alleged moral liceity, if in fact it is material cooperation) laid out the criterion to be present for moral liceity vis-a-vis the covid vax, and they clearly have not been met. The SSPX cannot appeal to the Vatican to claim moral liceity, but then ignore its conditions, and substitute its own more convenient conditions.
The bad act here is lying not vax itself. Proving that there is a formal cooperation is quite a long shot.
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The bad act here is lying not vax itself. Proving that there is a formal cooperation is quite a long shot.
Then scandal precludes the liceity of the act.
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Then scandal precludes the liceity of the act.
It would be a true scandal if we indeed dealt with a just law.
Can catholic drive 80MPH in 50MPH zone where there is no danger to anyone and not sin?
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It would be a true scandal if we indeed dealt with a just law.
Can catholic drive 80MPH in 50MPH zone where there is no danger to anyone and not sin?
On the contrary, there is never scandal in a properly formed conscience when complying with a just law.
But it is precisely in feigning (or actually rendering) compliance with unjust laws that scandal arises, because others are induced to comply by the example.
And in this case, the scandalous implication is that it’s ok to take the shot.
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m
You are ignoring the problem is scandal:
A fake covid pass conveys complicity, Catholics will see the priest travelling freely, know it could only because he took the abortion shot, and say to themselves, "If he can take it, so can I."
That problem can't be sidestepped.
How would they KNOW that he took the abortion jab? In fact they would be wrong and would not know it but would wrongly suspect it. And there's no other explanation regarding how the priest could "travel" freely? What if he doesn't travel outside of Poland at all?
BTW, in Hungary (and I suspect the same is true of Poland), the chief jab available was the Chinese one that is not abortion-tainted, the Sinopharm. Many people in Hungary were complaining that they couldn't get Pfizer. You can get that and also the COVAXIN / Covishield (which also is not abortion-tainted) there. And if you're jabbed in one EU country, you can move about (most countries in) the EU.
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How would they KNOW that he took the abortion jab? In fact they would be wrong and would not know it but would wrongly suspect it. And there's no other explanation regarding how the priest could "travel" freely? What if he doesn't travel outside of Poland at all?
BTW, in Hungary (and I suspect the same is true of Poland), the chief jab available was the Chinese one that is not abortion-tainted, the Sinopharm. Many people in Hungary were complaining that they couldn't get Pfizer. You can get that and also the COVAXIN / Covishield (which also is not abortion-tainted) there. And if you're jabbed in one EU country, you can move about (most countries in) the EU.
For example, if in Poland a covid pass is required for domestic or international air travel (as in Canada and elsewhere), and this priest travels, the deduction follows.
PS: Obviously, this whole conversation presumes we are talking about an abortion jab. If not, then none of this applies.
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Incidentally, according to this website, the non-abortive Sinopharm jab is not currently available in Poland:
https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/country/poland/
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2 Maccabees 6
The martyrdom of Eleazar
Eleazar, one of the foremost teachers of the Law, a man already advanced in years and of most noble appearance, was being forced to open his mouth wide to swallow pig's flesh. ·But he, resolving to die with honor rather than to live disgraced, went to the block of his own accord, ·spitting the stuff out, the plain duty of anyone with the courage to reject what it is not lawful to taste, even from a natural tenderness for his own life. ·Those in charge of the impious banquet, because of their long-standing friendship with him, took him aside and privately urged him to have meat brought of a kind he could properly use, prepared by himself, and only pretend to eat the portions of sacrificial meat as prescribed by the king; ·this action would enable him to escape death, by availing himself of an act of kindness prompted by their long friendship. ·But having taken a noble decision worthy of his years and the dignity of his great age and the well-earned distinction of his gray hairs, worthy too of his impeccable conduct from boyhood, and above all of the holy legislation established by God himself, he publicly stated his convictions, telling them to send him at once to Hades. "Such pretense," he said, "does not square with our time of life; many young people would suppose that Eleazar at the age of ninety had conformed to the foreigners' way of life, ·and because I had played this part for the sake of a paltry brief spell of life might themselves be led astray on my account; I should only bring defilement and disgrace on my old age. ·Even though for the moment I avoid execution by man, I can never, living or dead, elude the grasp of the Almighty. ·Therefore if I am man enough to quit this life here and now I shall prove myself worthy of my old age, ·and I shall have left the young a noble example of how to make a good death, eagerly and generously, for the venerable and holy laws."
With these words he went straight to the block. ·His escorts, so recently well disposed toward him, turned against him after this declaration, which they regarded as sheer madness. ·Just before he died under the blows, he groaned aloud and said, "The Lord whose knowledge is holy sees clearly that, though I might have escaped death, whatever agonies of body I now endure under this bludgeoning, in my soul I am glad to suffer, because of the awe which he inspires in me."
This was how he died, leaving his death as an example of nobility and a
record of virtue not only for the young but for the great majority of the nation.
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But it is precisely in feigning (or actually rendering) compliance with unjust laws that scandal arises, because others are induced to comply by the example.
And in this case, the scandalous implication is that it’s ok to take the shot.
This is true unless a vast part of the public is aware how absurd and unjust those laws are. Nobody is scandalized by people going grey market to make their living and not paying taxes in the country with effective rate is 60-70%.
If the priest needs to go to hospital to visit sick or travel where unjust restrictions are imposed to enter (jabbed only) and he needs a piece of paper, I am not here to complain.
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I understand what you are saying, Sean.
The Sspx leadership betrayed their own priests.
Right now SSPX is divided between vaxxed and unvaxxed.
There are vaxxed cowards in the pews pretending to be unvaxxed.
(My parents want to see my vax card so bad. I’m not getting vaxxed or having anything shoved up nose by skanky nurse).
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2 Maccabees 6
The martyrdom of Eleazar
Eleazar, one of the foremost teachers of the Law, a man already advanced in years and of most noble appearance, was being forced to open his mouth wide to swallow pig's flesh. ·But he, resolving to die with honor rather than to live disgraced, went to the block of his own accord, ·spitting the stuff out, the plain duty of anyone with the courage to reject what it is not lawful to taste, even from a natural tenderness for his own life. ·Those in charge of the impious banquet, because of their long-standing friendship with him, took him aside and privately urged him to have meat brought of a kind he could properly use, prepared by himself, and only pretend to eat the portions of sacrificial meat as prescribed by the king; ·this action would enable him to escape death, by availing himself of an act of kindness prompted by their long friendship. ·But having taken a noble decision worthy of his years and the dignity of his great age and the well-earned distinction of his gray hairs, worthy too of his impeccable conduct from boyhood, and above all of the holy legislation established by God himself, he publicly stated his convictions, telling them to send him at once to Hades. "Such pretense," he said, "does not square with our time of life; many young people would suppose that Eleazar at the age of ninety had conformed to the foreigners' way of life, ·and because I had played this part for the sake of a paltry brief spell of life might themselves be led astray on my account; I should only bring defilement and disgrace on my old age. ·Even though for the moment I avoid execution by man, I can never, living or dead, elude the grasp of the Almighty. ·Therefore if I am man enough to quit this life here and now I shall prove myself worthy of my old age, ·and I shall have left the young a noble example of how to make a good death, eagerly and generously, for the venerable and holy laws."
With these words he went straight to the block. ·His escorts, so recently well disposed toward him, turned against him after this declaration, which they regarded as sheer madness. ·Just before he died under the blows, he groaned aloud and said, "The Lord whose knowledge is holy sees clearly that, though I might have escaped death, whatever agonies of body I now endure under this bludgeoning, in my soul I am glad to suffer, because of the awe which he inspires in me."
This was how he died, leaving his death as an example of nobility and a
record of virtue not only for the young but for the great majority of the nation.
Well, there it is. I need no more words. My sentiments exactly. Thanks JoeZ!
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Why "brave?"
Using a fake covid pass represents the OPPOSITE of bravery (ie., he was afraid to openly resist).
I tend to agree.
He was helping his flock to not be decimated by the shot, but on the other hand he thought it "prudent" to feign compliance. I can't say that's the route I'd take. But I'm not in his position, so who knows? Maybe my ideal in this situation just isn't realistic for a priest out there in the real world.
What I'm saying is, you have a point, but I'm going to stop short of judging him. Maybe I won't call him a hero though.
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If the priest needs to go to hospital to visit sick or travel where unjust restrictions are imposed to enter (jabbed only) and he needs a piece of paper, I am not here to complain.
If that is what he stated to his congregation, that he was taking the shot like a soldier jumps on a grenade to save his troops, AND the shot had no baby parts in the testing or in it, then that is a different story. But I do not see that said anywhere in the article.
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This is true unless a vast part of the public is aware how absurd and unjust those laws are. Nobody is scandalized by people going grey market to make their living and not paying taxes in the country with effective rate is 60-70%.
If the priest needs to go to hospital to visit sick or travel where unjust restrictions are imposed to enter (jabbed only) and he needs a piece of paper, I am not here to complain.
if there were a vast population aware of how absurd the unjust mandate was, a priest feigning compliance would ENHANCE the scandal.
And in your hospital example, sure, a priest might be able to administer last rights to 200 souls in such contexts throughout his career. But how many more will he harm by scandalizing them into following his apparent example and taking an immoral shot?
Again, I have nothing against this priest. I’m only addressing the argument/problem inherent with n his course of action.
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2 Maccabees 6
The martyrdom of Eleazar
Eleazar, one of the foremost teachers of the Law, a man already advanced in years and of most noble appearance, was being forced to open his mouth wide to swallow pig's flesh. ·But he, resolving to die with honor rather than to live disgraced, went to the block of his own accord, ·spitting the stuff out, the plain duty of anyone with the courage to reject what it is not lawful to taste, even from a natural tenderness for his own life. ·Those in charge of the impious banquet, because of their long-standing friendship with him, took him aside and privately urged him to have meat brought of a kind he could properly use, prepared by himself, and only pretend to eat the portions of sacrificial meat as prescribed by the king; ·this action would enable him to escape death, by availing himself of an act of kindness prompted by their long friendship. ·But having taken a noble decision worthy of his years and the dignity of his great age and the well-earned distinction of his gray hairs, worthy too of his impeccable conduct from boyhood, and above all of the holy legislation established by God himself, he publicly stated his convictions, telling them to send him at once to Hades. "Such pretense," he said, "does not square with our time of life; many young people would suppose that Eleazar at the age of ninety had conformed to the foreigners' way of life, ·and because I had played this part for the sake of a paltry brief spell of life might themselves be led astray on my account; I should only bring defilement and disgrace on my old age. ·Even though for the moment I avoid execution by man, I can never, living or dead, elude the grasp of the Almighty. ·Therefore if I am man enough to quit this life here and now I shall prove myself worthy of my old age, ·and I shall have left the young a noble example of how to make a good death, eagerly and generously, for the venerable and holy laws."
With these words he went straight to the block. ·His escorts, so recently well disposed toward him, turned against him after this declaration, which they regarded as sheer madness. ·Just before he died under the blows, he groaned aloud and said, "The Lord whose knowledge is holy sees clearly that, though I might have escaped death, whatever agonies of body I now endure under this bludgeoning, in my soul I am glad to suffer, because of the awe which he inspires in me."
This was how he died, leaving his death as an example of nobility and a
record of virtue not only for the young but for the great majority of the nation.
Precisely the spirit I was trying to convey, however ineptly. Thank you, Joe.
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BTW, in Hungary (and I suspect the same is true of Poland), the chief jab available was the Chinese one that is not abortion-tainted, the Sinopharm.
In China, they make health drinks for the rich out of macerated aborted baby parts, so I do not swallow the narrative that the Chinese Sinopharm jab is not abortion tainted. In fact, that would be the last country that I would believe has a non-abortion tainted jab.
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Sinovac Biotech Co., Ltd.: Inactivated virus “CoronaVac” Intramuscular
=> HEK 293 used for testing
See list on lozierinstitute.org (https://lozierinstitute.org/update-covid-19-vaccine-candidates-and-abortion-derived-cell-lines/#:~:text=Sinovac)
There are six other Chinese vaccines listed, some using HEK 293.
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But how many more will he harm by scandalizing them into following his apparent example and taking an immoral shot?
[...] I’m only addressing the argument/problem inherent with n his course of action.
Those potentially scandalized are hypocrites anyway - you shall no judge ... - who cares?
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Those potentially scandalized are hypocrites anyway - you shall no judge ... - who cares?
Why would those who are scandalized by a priest (apparently) taking an abortion-tainted shot guilty of hypocrisy?
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Desperate times oft times call for desperate measures. Think of the priests in France when St. Jean Vianney was a boy, or more recently Father Miguel Pro and the Cristeros. They went around in disguise pretending to be something they weren't. Those who didn't know WHY were probably scandalized, but that didn't stop them.
Then think of Christ in company with Magdalen, a public sinner. That caused scandal even amongst the apostles.
And here we sit, thousands of miles away, reading a short translation of an event that doesn't affect us in the least........judging.
God help us.
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Desperate times oft times call for desperate measures. Think of the priests in France when St. Jean Vianney was a boy, or more recently Father Miguel Pro and the Cristeros. They went around in disguise pretending to be something they weren't. Those who didn't know WHY were probably scandalized, but that didn't stop them.
Then think of Christ in company with Magdalen, a public sinner. That caused scandal even amongst the apostles.
And here we sit, thousands of miles away, reading a short translation of an event that doesn't affect us in the least........judging.
God help us.
Knock it off.
The lesson from scripture was already provided, and you’re going to continue arguing the point?
When you need to oppose scripture to defend your position, it a flaming sign that you need to abandon your position.
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This is true unless a vast part of the public is aware how absurd and unjust those laws are. Nobody is scandalized by people going grey market to make their living and not paying taxes in the country with effective rate is 60-70%.
If the priest needs to go to hospital to visit sick or travel where unjust restrictions are imposed to enter (jabbed only) and he needs a piece of paper, I am not here to complain.
Agreed. All these keyboard commandos on here throwing this priest in jail under the bus, I think they would see it differently if they were the ones in a hospital bed, knowing they were going to be dead in a few days, in the state of mortal sin wishing they had a priest to hear their confession and give them Extreme Unction ... in that situation, I'm sure they would have a different calculus to apply to a problem like this. But this Polish priest probably has a better sense of what people need, and he is the one who will answer for how he cared for the souls under his charge, and he is the one who made the decisions he made, which he is now suffering for. If you asked him now if he regretted his decision, I am fairly sure he would say no.
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Agreed. All these keyboard commandos on here throwing this priest in jail under the bus, I think they would see it differently if they were the ones in a hospital bed, knowing they were going to be dead in a few days, in the state of mortal sin wishing they had a priest to hear their confession and give them Extreme Unction ... in that situation, I'm sure they would have a different calculus to apply to a problem like this. But this Polish priest probably has a better sense of what people need, and he is the one who will answer for how he cared for the souls under his charge, and he is the one who made the decisions he made, which he is now suffering for. If you asked him now if he regretted his decision, I am fairly sure he would say no.
Ends justify the means. Got it. I’ll reread the Bible after you edit it.
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Knock it off.
The lesson from scripture was already provided, and you’re going to continue arguing the point?
When you need to oppose scripture to defend your position, it a flaming sign that you need to abandon your position.
I would if the moderator told me that only SeanJohnson's opinion was allowed on CI.
Do you eat pork? Your scripture quote is from the old testament. There are multiple examples both for and against your opinion in the new testament.
The priest rendered to Caesar that which was Caesars.....a piece of paper.
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Why would those who are scandalized by a priest (apparently) taking an abortion-tainted shot guilty of hypocrisy?
Because they are fully aware that a black market for jab certs exists and some might take advantage of it in order to do what is important.
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I would if the moderator told me that only SeanJohnson's opinion was allowed on CI.
Do you eat pork? Your scripture quote is from the old testament. There are multiple examples both for and against your opinion in the new testament.
It’s not my quote, it’s Joe Z’s.
Do you reject the 10 Commandments? They’re from the OT, you know.
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Because they are fully aware that a black market for jab certs exists and some might take advantage of it in order to do what is important.
I’d say that’s quite a stretch to argue that laymen would presume a priest has acquired a fake covid pass, when most would assume the opposite (ie., that a priest is not a criminal).
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This whole thing wasn't a (possible) scandal until the priest got charged and it was made public.
When it was made public, anyone with common sense would realize it was a deception on the part of the priest who was fighting an unjust law.
Prior to that the only people who would have know would have been the VERY FEW that were directly involved with his using the fake papers to minister to them, and he probably told them of the deception so they wouldn't be scandalized or feel guilty that he took the shot for them.
The real scandal is us, spreading it around.
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Do you reject the 10 Commandments? They’re from the OT, you know.
No, Christ didn't change them.
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This whole thing wasn't a (possible) scandal until the priest got charged and it was made public.
When it was made public, anyone with common sense would realize it was a deception on the part of the priest who was fighting an unjust law.
Prior to that the only people who would have know would have been the VERY FEW that were directly involved with his using the fake papers to minister to them, and he probably told them of the deception so they wouldn't be scandalized or feel guilty that he took the shot for them.
The real scandal is us, spreading it around.
False:
If he couldn’t travel without a covid pass, then he’s presumed by all to have been jabbed in order to continue traveling. So the scandal began (for those who don’t accept the moral liceity of the shot, anyway), the moment the law went into effect, and the priest was known/observed to continue traveling.
One does not presume a priest has committed a criminal act or deception in order to continue traveling, particularly when his own congregation is defending the moral liceity of taking the shot.
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No, Christ didn't change them.
The implication being that Christ has abrogated the law against giving scandal?
You are deceived, if that’s what you believe.
Christ’s examples in the NT of eating with tax collectors and publicans, healing on the Sabbath, befriending St. Mary Magdalen, etc. were most certainly not intended to do any such thing, but to point out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
The proof of it is that every manual of moral theology still discusses giving scandal, which they need not do were it true that Christ changed the moral law in that regard.
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Too much time on your hands? If you were on your deathbed, you’d judge him a hypocrite or coward and send him away? Call the authorities and turn him in?
Take the 💰 but not the ✝️? Take both?
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Too much time on your hands? If you were on your deathbed, you’d judge him a hypocrite or coward and send him away? Call the authorities and turn him in?
Take the 💰 but not the ✝️? Take both?
Anyone making this argument should have no problem taking the abortion shot, because the unCatholic argument boils down to this:
The ends justify the means.
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Too much time on your hands? If you were on your deathbed, you’d judge him a hypocrite or coward and send him away? Call the authorities and turn him in?
Take the 💰 but not the ✝️? Take both?
Leaving aside the emotional content and nature of this brief rant, in order to be logically consistent, you must accept the SSPX position on the abortion jab, per Fr. Selegny’s September/2021 article, in which he opined that taking the jab can be charitable and prudent (he has in mind, for example, a priest to give last rites to hospital patients.
Do you?
Even if one were to concede Fr. Selegny’s argument, toward the end of his December/2020 article on the same topic, Fr. Selegny admits that scandal would prevent the liceity of such an act, citing scripture (as Joe Z did above):
“To properly situate this question, it is important to know that all the meat consumed in Antiquity necessarily passed through the temples. Moreover, there is only one word in Greek, mageiros (used exclusively in the masculine), to designate the priest, the butcher and the cook: for those who wanted to abstain from immolated meat, there was no other meat to eat.
Let us add that the sin of idolatry is one of the most serious, since it attacks God himself.
St. Paul answers that it is permissible to eat these meats, unless it scandalizes the neighbor.”
https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/it-morally-permissible-use-covid-19-vaccine-62290
Venenum in cauda (“the sting is in the tail@).
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Agreed. All these keyboard commandos on here throwing this priest in jail under the bus, I think they would see it differently if they were the ones in a hospital bed, knowing they were going to be dead in a few days, in the state of mortal sin wishing they had a priest to hear their confession and give them Extreme Unction ...
The question is:
1) Did he take an abortion tainted shot?
Sean is assuming he did. What are you assuming Mr. Yeti?
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The question is:
1) Did he take an abortion tainted shot?
Sean is assuming he did. What are you assuming Mr. Yeti?
Correction: I do NOT assume he did. In fact, I assume he didn't, otherwise he would not have procured a fake covid pass.
But I'm saying OTHERS who don't know him will reasonably assume he did (and will be scandalized by it, and therefore it is not permissible to go the fake docuмents route).
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I’d say that’s quite a stretch to argue that laymen would presume a priest has acquired a fake covid pass, when most would assume the opposite (ie., that a priest is not a criminal).
A stretch in the west world, perhaps yes. Not in the countries where people routinely ignore nonsense laws.