How many threads on this do you have to start?No thanks, I don't need help posting. I doubt this thread will go anywhere because I do not believe such a real Catholic exists, but I thought I'd put up a big billboard here to see if I am wrong.
You need help.
Does anyone have an example of a real Catholic with children that smokes MJ recreationally and has had no problems with his children living with it?Yep, sure do.
Yep, sure do.
LT, you need more time "in the back 40".
[1] Judge not, that you may not be judged, [2] For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. [3] And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? [4] Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? [5] Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
I can't answer your question because i'm not a busybody who goes around talking to grown men and gathering info about their personal life.
Your thread title is a deliberate straw man against those who argue that it's morally permissible under certain circuмstances (as per Catholic moral theologians). You've never once address the principles but continue to emote and bluster ...You say that because your personality is different than mine, you can't understand how anyone would question your final arbiter of everything in the world, whether something is a sin or not, your "principles", and Jone is your dogmatic docuмent. Your system does not work in the real world because everything is not judged by whether it is a sin or not, really almost nothing we do every day is judged by whether it is a sin or not. Your system will not work with young people, the only ones I am concerned with here. With your "system", when you leave your book room and go out into the real world, you will be like a deer in front of headlights. In the real world your "system" is pretty much useless.
Like I said, we are from two different worlds, different places, having lived totally different lives.
It is not a sin to allow one's daughter to go out on a "date" with a stranger that the parents have never seen.
It is not a sin for your children to go with their friends on Summer break to Florida.
It is not a sin for a husband to go help the neighbors 20 year old daughter whenever she calls
It is not a sin to have one's daughter clean homes of men.
It is not a sin to leave your daughter alone to play with boys
It is not a sin for one's daughter to smoke marijuana at a "party" with "friends" the parents do not even know.
It is not a sin to leave one's door or garage open at night
It is not a sin to swim in black water that is home to Gators, Snapping Turtles and venomous snakes.
It is not a sin to work on electrical appliances with power connected.
All of these examples are dangerous occasions of sin or physical harm. Whether something is a sin or not isn't the sole determinant of whether it is wise to do. Nature never forgives, we have a fallen nature.
I doubt this thread will go anywhere because I do not believe such a real Catholic exists, but I thought I'd put up a big billboard here to see if I am wrong.Not one has come forward to answer the question, where are all the defenders of recreational MJ smoking? It is just as I thought, whomever are smoking recreational (like 3 people at most) are so ashamed of what they do that they will not come out or they have no family.
You made this very revealing statement.
In my experience very few if any SSPX priests (that's where I go) can guide young people in matters of MJ, alcohol, self-abuse, pornography and pre-marital relations, because they have no personal experience whatsoever. That is why I see the young people leave and go into the world as soon as they are able. That is what happened in the 1960's when 80% of Americans went to mass and the Novus Ordo did not exist. The priest didn't have a clue how to deal with it. I see women counselors who never had any children, giving lectures about how to raise children, and college professors who have never had to use their theories in the real world, teaching students . They are only good for teaching those that know little, like children. "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".
If you have not smoked pot you can't know anything but what you read. If you have friends who smoke pot, that is one way to learn about the effects by seeing them and how they live. Do you have any experience with relatives and friends who smoke pot?
History is repeating itself.
Recreational pot use means lazy and immaturity. If you love God and have peace you don’t need pot, cigarettes, alcohol, food and other addictions. Children especially teenagers watch their parents. If you are smoking pot, these children can smell it. They aren’t dumb. They will end up doing pot or worse. Maybe these children who grew up in traditional Catholic homes leave the Church because they are tired of the hypocrisy.
Smoking pot is a sign that one and doesn’t work enough or pray enough to enjoy true recreation. They have too much time on their hands.
You made this very revealing statement.
In my experience very few if any SSPX priests (that's where I go) can guide young people in matters of MJ, alcohol, self-abuse, pornography and pre-marital relations, because they have no personal experience whatsoever. That is why I see the young people leave and go into the world as soon as they are able. That is what happened in the 1960's when 80% of Americans went to mass and the Novus Ordo did not exist. The priest didn't have a clue how to deal with it. I see women counselors who never had any children, giving lectures about how to raise children, and college professors who have never had to use their theories in the real world, teaching students . They are only good for teaching those that know little, like children. "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".
If you have not smoked pot you can't know anything but what you read. If you have friends who smoke pot, that is one way to learn about the effects by seeing them and how they live. Do you have any experience with relatives and friends who smoke pot?
(https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=720,quality=100/system/media_attachments/files/101/690/538/original/0edf510031854dff.png)
In my experience very few if any SSPX priests (that's where I go) can guide young people in matters of MJ, alcohol, self-abuse, pornography and pre-marital relations, because they have no personal experience whatsoever. That is why I see the young people leave and go into the world as soon as they are able. That is what happened in the 1960's when 80% of Americans went to mass and the Novus Ordo did not exist. The priest didn't have a clue how to deal with it. I see women counselors who never had any children, giving lectures about how to raise children, and college professors who have never had to use their theories in the real world, teaching students . They are only good for teaching those that know little, like children. "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".
If you have not smoked pot you can't know anything but what you read. If you have friends who smoke pot, that is one way to learn about the effects by seeing them and how they live. Do you have any experience with relatives and friends who smoke pot?
If there weren't traditional Catholics here in support of recreational pot smoking, then this thread would likely not have been started.You may feel differently if you or a loved one ever get a cancer which is incurable by western means but very curable through the use of MJ.
Some of the traditional Catholics here find it offensive that some of us do not agree that recreational pot-smoking is a good thing, and not a problem at all.
We're not allowed to have an old-fashioned view of the subject, and we need to "get with the times" and be cool with pot smoking, whatever the reason.
Some of us aren't hippie-trads, and never will be. I guess the '60's and '70's are here again, and alive and well.
You may feel differently if you or a loved one ever get a cancer which is incurable by western means but very curable through the use of MJ.
So it's a cure for cancer now. Huh.Where have you been...
Where have you been...
Been proven decades ago. Google the Rick Simpson oil story. Very enlightening.
We should all be growing it and making the stuff for people with cancer, and ingesting MJ recreationally as a proactive against cancer the same way some people are taking ivermectin proactively.
Not heard of pot being a cure for cancer. And I've been around for a long time. We probably move in different circles.We all move in different circles...
Not heard of pot being a cure for cancer. And I've been around for a long time. We probably move in different circles.As per usual, you are uneducated on the topic, but you post as if an expert. :facepalm:
As per usual, you [Meg] are uneducated on the topic, but you post as if an expert. :facepalm:Nailed it… again!
You may feel differently if you or a loved one ever get a cancer which is incurable by western means but very curable through the use of MJ.This thread is about recreational use of marijuana which has nothing to do with medical use. Bringing up the medical use is just an excuse to justify recreational use. We are not discussing medical use, that is another issue that is contested, same as medical barbiturates, like ritalin and such, it is opening up another can of worms, like your saying it cures cancer. Stick to the subject, recreational use.
Why are thereThere, that's better.42 active threads about (Recreational) use Marijuana?
There, that's better.
sins of the fleshLT, you're obsessed man. Not everything in life flows towards this vice.
LT, you're obsessed man. Not everything in life flows towards this vice.I quoted St. Remigius saying otherwise than what you say above, he says it is THE sin that takes almost all adults. It's from the 5th century. I could post many more such quotes. Were all the saints that taught about the sin that takes the most adults also obsessed? If it disturbs you just ignore it.
There, that's better.
Since I started them both, I'll answer.
The Answer is, because : Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
What could be more important that saving the souls of our daughters and sons, from the sin that takes almost all adults?
The real question to ask, is why are there not more threads about the sin that takes practically everybody, while there are so many about worldly events, like moon landings, the Jєωs, 20 varieties of sedevacantes, Biden, Trump, Putin how many angels fit on a pinhead........
The blind sanctimony from you two is unbearable sometimes.
"The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican."
[Luke 18:11]
Pot costs money to buy or even grow. Money for pot could be Money to feed your family or for fuel to attend Mass.Alcohol costs MORE money and effort to produce than MJ. MJ is only expensive because it is, generally, illegal. if it were legal it would be reasonably inexpensive, as alcohol.
This thread is about recreational use of marijuana which has nothing to do with medical use. Bringing up the medical use is just an excuse to justify recreational use. We are not discussing medical use, that is another issue that is contested, same as medical barbiturates, like ritalin and such, it is opening up another can of worms, like your saying it cures cancer. Stick to the subject, recreational use.They are tied together, LT.
There, that's better.MJ use is not a sin in and of itself anymore than alcohol is.
Since I started them both, I'll answer.
The Answer is, because : Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
What could be more important that saving the souls of our daughters and sons, from the sin that takes almost all adults?
The real question to ask, is why are there not more threads about the sin that takes practically everybody, while there are so many about worldly events, like moon landings, the Jєωs, 20 varieties of sedevacantes, Biden, Trump, Putin how many angels fit on a pinhead........
I quoted St. Remigius saying otherwise than what you say above, he says it is THE sin that takes almost all adults. It's from the 5th century. I could post many more such quotes. Were all the saints that taught about the sin that takes the most adults also obsessed? If it disturbs you just ignore it.That does not mean that everything in life flows towards this vice.
Thank you for bumping the thread and placing me in such distinguished company of "obsessed" saints.
God Bless
Alcohol costs MORE money and effort to produce than MJ. MJ is only expensive because it is, generally, illegal. if it were legal it would be reasonably inexpensive, as alcohol.
Alcohol costs MORE money and effort to produce than MJ.Alcohol is very simple and cheap to make. Prices are driven up by taxes, regulations and profit concerns. Agree with your larger point, that both MJ and alcohol would be very cheap if the govt got out of the way.
Yes, I can well imagine that it is unbearable. That's the point really, isn't it? That trads believe themselves to be above the law?Those of us who have researched MJ and know what we are talking about, advocate CHANGING THE LAW, not being above it.
Well, it depends on what state one lives in, and if the state has legalized pot. In the state that I live in (Washington state) pot is legalized, but it is highly regulated, and very expensive. I don't know about street prices for pot. Based on what my son has told me about his friends in college who were pot smokers, they spent between $500.00 and $600.00 a month on pot. That's quite a bit more expensive than alcohol. Cheap booze is always available. But pot isn't cheap, not like it was in the '70's when I was a teen, and I had pothead friends."Highly regulated" is not legal as alcohol.
Alcohol is very simple and cheap to make. Prices are driven up by taxes, regulations and profit concerns. Agree with your larger point, that both MJ and alcohol would be very cheap if the govt got out of the way.Thank you for the clarification. Your point is exactly what i meant.. Sometimes my mind works faster than my fingers.
Those of us who have researched MJ and know what we are talking about, advocate CHANGING THE LAW, not being above it.
You think that I was speaking of man-made laws? No - I was speaking of God's laws. There's a difference.God's Laws is with a capital L.
Bringing forth grass for cattle, and herb for the service of men. That thou mayst bring bread out of the earth:" [Psalms 103:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=103&l=14#x)] |
You think that I was speaking of man-made laws? No - I was speaking of God's laws. There's a difference.All I've seen in these threads are LT and Meg's laws
God's Laws is with a capital L.
Read your Bible. God was o.k. with and even encouraged drinking wine. He changed water into wine.
He was o.k. with MJ, too:
[Psalms 103:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=103&l=14#x)]
And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=29-29&q=1#x)
Genesis 1:29
Why didn't He mention pot specifically? If it's such a wonder or miracle drug, as some claim.Why should He? MJ is just one of His wonderful herbs.
Why should He? MJ is just ONE of His wonderful herbs.
Why didn't He mention pot specifically? If it's such a wonder or miracle drug, as some claim.God only revealed what is necessary for salvation, you know this.
God only revealed what is necessary for salvation, you know this.
So pot isn't necessary for salvation? Are you sure about that?No. That's been the argument this entire time. It is morally neutral, rife for either abuse or benefit. Like everything else. You and LT are the ones arguing that it is inherently evil and a sin to use.
That's been the argument this entire time. It is morally neutral, rife for either abuse or benefit. Like everything else. You and LT are the ones arguing that it is inherently evil and a sin to use.
Never said it's inherently evil. Sinful, yes, under the proper circuмstances. You believe that psychotropic substances cannot be sinful with improper use? You believe that humans are not capable of improper use? Really?Did you read my comment or glean over it with your own lens of interpretation? I literally said "rife for either abuse or benefit."
Okay then. Mind altering psychotropic herbs are wonderful, for some, who need and depend on that sort of thing. Got it.Never said any such thing.
Are there many traditional Catholics who don't think that mind-altering psychotropic drugs may pose a problem? Probably not many.
If man commits sin by using what God gave us inappropriately, it is not the fault of the item but of ourselves.
Sorry, but simple logic has no place in this discussion.
Just think of this:
(https://image.shutterstock.com/image-vector/old-hippie-smokes-marijuana-shows-260nw-115062265.jpg)
No. It is morally neutral, rife for either abuse or benefit. Like everything else.... LT are the ones arguing that it is inherently evil and a sin to use.Post where I said "it is inherently evil and a sin to use". Never said any such thing. But while I am at it, thanks for the opening:
Last Tradhican wrote: Whether something is a sin or not is not the final maker or breaker of almost anything that we do every day. It is not a sin for a family with children to have a pet rattle snake. It is not a sin to fix an appliance while it is plugged in. Just because it is not a sin for your daughters to smoke MJ recreationally does not mean that it is wise to allow it or encourage it. This thread (Is Marijuana use Sinful to Catholics?) is useless for the real world, it is only here for smokers of MJ to justify themselves, seeking teachers according to their own desire. Again, I am talking about recreational use of MJ among single young people, not medical use.
In my experience very few if any SSPX priests [plural!] (that's where I go) can guide young people in matters of MJ, alcohol, self-abuse, pornography and pre-marital relations, because they have no personal experience whatsoever. …
Last Tradhican wrote: Whether something is a sin or not is not the final maker or breaker of almost anything that we do every day. It is not a sin for a family with children to have a pet rattle snake. It is not a sin to fix an appliance while it is plugged in. Just because it is not a sin for your daughters to smoke MJ recreationally does not mean that it is wise to allow it or encourage it. This thread (Is Marijuana use Sinful to Catholics?) is useless for the real world, it is only here for smokers of MJ to justify themselves, seeking teachers according to their own desire. Again, I am talking about recreational use of MJ among single young people, not medical use.
Your posting is that of a man filled with hate and envy. You are not physically well, do you think it is wise to be behaving as your are?
I judge the priests by their deeds (just like I judge a carpenter, plumber, doctor, engineer by the work they put out), the morality of the students that they taught in the schools, the young people that they counseled in confession, and the sermons that they gave in the pulpits. If the girls that were under these priests are now pregnant (I can see that), smoking grass and partying in clubs (they brag about it, tell other young people) , dressing provocative clothing like any girl of the world ( I see that myself in town and mass) and I never saw the priests say anything to the girls while they were still going mass wearing inappropriate clothes, never heard them give a sermon on immodesty, moreover, they had teachers in the schools that went around in short shorts in front of the priests and they never said anything. That is how I judge.
I lived that life of partying till I came back to the Church when I was 40. I can tell when someone is a "partier" and dope smoker. I can tell when a girl has changed from innocence to experienced. The change is striking to me.
Since you repeat your cop out,The truth is that I was attempting to be polite, since you posted that you are in bad straights again. The truth is that I have not read anything you've written in quite a while that is why you had to keep posting the same questions in different threads that you saw that I was writing in. Just a few minutes ago, because I learned that you were sick, and in the hospital again, I answered you and now you are doing exactly what I expected, revealing your hate for me just because I contradict your belief in the use of recreational marijuana. You do that with everyone that disagrees with you. I have answered you about how I judge priests, and henceforth, do not expect any more responses from me.
:facepalm: Y’all continue to miss the point. Arguing that something is allowed in certain circuмstances is not the same as advocating for its use. I’m sorry you don’t have the IQ to see the difference.You continue to ignore my point that if you teach your children what you are teaching here or a priest teaches it from the pulpit, the children will take it that it is Ok to join their friends smoking dope. Now you are changing the subject to cover your butt and say that "Arguing that something is allowed in certain circuмstances is not the same as advocating for its use". Well, not telling your children to avoid smoking MJ because that it leads to licentious behavior and telling them that it is allowed to use MJ recreationally "in moderation", only seems to you to be not advocating it's use because you have no clue about how human beings behave. Basically you are indifferent to what daughters do.
Nobody is ignoring your point, but rejecting your foolish generalization, projection of your own disorder, and denial of Catholic moral theology.Catholic moral theology has nothing to do with the problem, the problem (THE POINT) is that recreational use of MJ is a leg spreader for girls, a certain indicator that they are promiscuous. You can stick your head in the ground but I lived it. All the girls that smoked MJ "partied". There is no projecting (whatever that means to you), it is a fact. If you choose to not believe it that is your problem. I do not write just for you, I write for all the parents that don't know what I know. Ladislaus has complained that I am too detailed about my past and he is right, so I am refraining from saying more. My father knew nothing about these things that started in the in the 1960's with sex and drugs, I'm sure there are parents out there that are the same. THAT is why I write and shout from the roof tops.
THE POINT
Marijuana, Cocaine, Hashish, Quaaludes and the like, they all were the high waving red flag that the female users were promiscuous ("they liked to party"). There was no moderation about it. All MJ smokers were promiscuous. I do not see why it would be any different today, especially since MJ is more potent.
Catholic moral theology has nothing to do with the problem, the problem is that recreational use of MJ is a leg spreader for girls a certain indicator that they are promiscuous. You can stick your head in the ground but I lived it. All the girls that smoked MJ "partied". There is no project (whatever that means), it is a fact. If you choose to not believe it that is your problem. I do not write just for you, I right for all the parents that don't know what I know. Ladislaus has complained that I am too detailed about my past and he is right, so I am refraining from saying more. My father knew nothing about these things that started in the in the 1960's with sex and drugs, I'm sure there are parents out there that are the same. THAT is why I write and shout from the roof tops.The term "leg spreader" is kind of scandalizing, just saying.
The term "leg spreader" is kind of scandalizing, just saying. (You are 100% correct, I cringed every time I wrote it, but sometimes one has to be blunt. You will not see me use it again)My comments in bold, and St. Remigius quote
That aside, I essentially agree with you, with the caveat that we cannot also generalize recreational use as inherently directed towards hedonism and abuse (I always put recreational use among young people, and specifically young girls and I state my personal experience that it was and is a certain sign that they "Party". A girl that tries MJ just to see what its like and never does it again is not going to turn into a slave to Satan. I am not talking about older couples who smoke MJ by themselves at home. I have no experience there) . Mark has provided solid evidence to the contrary (no M79 has not, he has provided information about medical use, and his recreational use is not about young daughters, so his evidence has NOTHING to do with MY POINT), and others have shown that morally-speaking you have just as much of a risk of MJ abuse amongst some dispositions as you would alcohol or tobacco (Moral Theology has nothing to do with MY POINT, and they have not shown that young girls reaction to use of MJ is the same as alcohol or tobacco. In my experience, alcohol (and of course tobacco) did not result in the same reaction as MJ, not even close. Neither did Cocaine. Quaaludes did though.)
We all have different backgrounds, especially those of us who came from the world to Catholicism. I've seen it, I'm sure just about everyone here has too in their personal lives. The problem here is why you feel the need to "shout it from the rooftops" so often on CI, where many are already well aware of the dangers of the modern world? Your audience, and scope, is limited to Catholics who are like-minded in that matter. (If they were likeminded, this thread would have not made it past my first posting.)
So, I see it as a futile exercise that serves to reveal your own morbid fixation on the subject of licentiousness and the possibility of a hidden (or explicit) pride on your part to condescend your virtue to others (as evidenced by both yours and Meg's replies in these threads). (Speak for yourself. Obviously you are not like minded, you have a horse in the race, and a chip on your shoulder.)QuoteI quoted St. Remigius saying it is THE sin that takes almost all adults. It's from the 5th century. I could post many more such quotes. Were all the saints that taught about THE sin that takes the most adults to hell also "revealing their own morbid fixation on the subject of licentiousness and the possibility of a hidden (or explicit) pride"? If it disturbs you just ignore it.
Thank you for bumping the thread and placing me in such distinguished company of the "morbid fixated prideful" saints.
Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
(If they were likeminded, this thread would have not made it past my first posting.)Clearly I was wrong in saying "we" are likeminded to include yourself, as it's apparent you have a particular idea of what can and cannot be condoned by Catholics within your own interpretation of Moral Theology. As I recall, you admitted that you utilize a reactionary assessment of moral situations, rather than one of moderation.
(Speak for yourself. Obviously you are not like minded.)
My comments in bold
Clearly I was wrong in saying "we" are likeminded to include yourself, as it's apparent you have a particular idea of what can and cannot be condoned by Catholics within your own interpretation of Moral Theology. As I recall, you admitted that you utilize a reactionary assessment of moral situations, rather than one of moderation.No, you are speaking for yourself, that's all. You obviously like dope and do not like what I am writing. It does not hide the fact of my point. Parents should treat it as a rattlesnake in the house and that there is a serious problem that could take away their daughters and boys.
Yet, it is likeminded with other Catholics in the sense that we are all aware of the thorns posed by the world and the flesh. So emphasizing this point ad nauseum does nothing but annoy people as vain sanctimony.
Does anyone have an example of a real Catholic with children that smokes MJ recreationally and has had no problems with his children living with it?
Cannabis is a useful medicinal (and therefore "recreational") ...Yeah, right, medicinal is recreational, and black is white, and up is down.
Not a one person has come forward to say that they have told their children what they are teaching others here, that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. It seems that they are ashamed of admitting it, or hopefully they are just blowing hot air and would not say that to their children.
Yeah, right, medicinal is recreational, and black is white, and up is down.
Not a one person has come forward to say that they have told their children what they are teaching others here, that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. It seems that they are ashamed of admitting it, or hopefully they are just blowing hot air and would not say that to their children.
No, you are speaking for yourself, that's all. You obviously like dope and do not like what I am writing. It does not hide the fact of my point. Parents should treat it as a rattlesnake in the house and that there is a serious problem that could take away their daughters and boys.Great, now you're making an assumption on my interior forum which again proves my point on your hidden pride.
Nothing more important to discuss than sins of the flesh, the sin that takes the most adults, more important than all the subjects discussed "ad-nauseum" on CI.Right. But when it is the only thing you talk about, it isn't our problem, it's yours.
Post where I said "it is inherently evil and a sin to use". Never said any such thing. But while I am at it, thanks for the opening:No more so than alcohol.
To be blunt and short I've been saying all along that MJ for recreational use is a leg spreader for young girls. That if anyone's daughters are smoking MJ as recreation, it is a certain indicator that they are having sɛҳuąƖ relations with men or soon will be.
Not a one person has come forward to say that they have told their children what they are teaching others here, that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. It seems that they are ashamed of saying it, or hopefully they are just blowing hot air and would not say that to their children.I have told my children that.
Catholic moral theology has nothing to do with the problem, the problem (THE POINT) is that recreational use of MJ is a leg spreader for girls, a certain indicator that they are promiscuous. You can stick your head in the ground but I lived it. All the girls that smoked MJ "partied". There is no projecting (whatever that means to you), it is a fact. If you choose to not believe it that is your problem. I do not write just for you, I write for all the parents that don't know what I know. Ladislaus has complained that I am too detailed about my past and he is right, so I am refraining from saying more. My father knew nothing about these things that started in the in the 1960's with sex and drugs, I'm sure there are parents out there that are the same. THAT is why I write and shout from the roof tops.No more sonthan alcohol, and you can't OD on the stuff.
If you really want to talk about THE POINT, stick to arguing about it, I posted it near the beginning in a polite manner, it could not be any clearer:
No more than alcohol, and you can't OD on the stuff.That is a fallacy, really false propaganda. I answered that objection a few times already:
Great, now you're making an assumption on my interior forum which again proves my point on your hidden pride.Assumptions, and extrapolations happen a LOT on cathinfo.
Right. But when it is the only thing you talk about, it isn't our problem, it's yours.
"That " means - You taught your children that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. You are saying that your young girls go out with boys and smoke MJ and that you smoke MJ with them at home.QuoteNot a one person has come forward to say that they have told their children what they are teaching others here, that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. It seems that they are ashamed of saying it, or hopefully they are just blowing hot air and would not say that to their children.
I have told my children that.
My kids had no problem running around naked.
Assumptions, and extrapolations happen a LOT on cathinfo.That is true. That is why it is wise to ask questions rather than make assumptions and the extrapolations from assumptions.
More extrapolations....
I have told my children that.
"That " means - You taught your children that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. You are saying that your young girls go out with boys and smoke MJ and that you smoke MJ with them at home.
You also said before that your children run around naked, I assumed it was just the little babies, but at what age do you cut it off, or do they just switch to running around in under wear? By the way, are you OK with your daughters going to the beach wearing bikinis or wearing short shorts about town?
More extrapolations....The writer accuses me of conjecture and extrapolations by using conjecture and extrapolations against me, when I precisely only asked questions to avoid conjecture. Amazing! The writer either answers the questions or that is the end of the conversation.
QuoteQuoteLast Tradhican wrote: Not a one person has come forward to say that they have told their children what they are teaching others here, that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. It seems that they are ashamed of saying it, or hopefully they are just blowing hot air and would not say that to their children.
Epiphany responded - I have told my children that.
My kids had no problem running around naked.
The writer accuses me of conjecture and extrapolations by using conjecture and extrapolations against me, when I precisely only asked questions to avoid conjecture. Amazing! The writer either answers the questions or that is the end of the conversation.I dissected your statement and extrapolations stating what "you said" and ",I do" and you think I am extrapolating? I stated facts, not extrapolations.
Re: Oxymoron - Catholics for Recreational Use of Marijuana (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/oxymoron-catholics-for-recreational-use-of-marijuana/msg813880/#msg813880)
« Reply #86 on: Today at 06:44:10 AM »
Quote from: epiphany on Today at 12:25:20 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/oxymoron-catholics-for-recreational-use-of-marijuana/msg813862/#msg813862)
Epiphany responded - I have told my children that.
"That " means - You taught your children that smoking MJ recreationally "in moderation" with their teenage friends or at home with their siblings around is not a sin. You are saying that your young girls go out with boys and smoke MJ and that you smoke MJ with them at home.
You also said before that your children run around naked, I assumed it was just the little babies, but at what age do you cut it off, or do they just switch to running around in under wear? By the way, are you OK with your daughters going to the beach wearing bikinis or wearing short shorts about town?
Quote
It is very difficult to have a logical conversation with you.Well, you brought it up, I was trying to avoid saying it, but you have no logically ordered sense. I have been a business executive all my life, I made my money PRECISELY making sense of what others could not see, They had 95% of the job done and could not see it, and I had to show them to make it work. I did that all of my life. If you were going to build a highrise building, it would just be windows miraculously floating in the sky. There's no point in asking you anything, it will just open another can of worms. I am sorry, but I do not have the time to spare you.
Well, you brought it up, I was trying to avoid saying it, but you have no logically ordered sense. I have been a business executive all my life, I made my money PRECISELY making sense of what others could not see, They had 95% of the job done and could not see it, and I had to show them to make it work. I did that all of my life. If you were going to build a highrise building, it would just be windows miraculously floating in the sky. There's no point in asking you anything, it will just open another can of worms. I am sorry, but I do not have the time to spare you.Pride goeth before the fall.
I pity you.
Nothing to pity, when one knows nothing about the person. Basically, there is no way to know anything about anyone here if they do not say anything about themselves.
Utterly clueless. There is indeed much to pity in a manIrrelevant to the thread.
Irrelevant to the thread.
Enough arguing. It’s Lent.I dipped my toes into this discussion somewhere...one of the threads...and quickly realized it wasn't going to be fruitful.
- Recreational MJ use in young girls is an indicator that they are promiscuous or will soon. Girls can easily have sɛҳuąƖ relations just by picking out the man they are attracted to and saying let's go. If one is a parent they should treat MJ use in their daughters as a rattlesnake in the home!I am really surprised that there are even three people on CI that are defending recreational use of MJ for young people, even their daughters. But I should have known better because it happened also in the 1960's among Catholics when there were Catholic schools and only the Latin Mass, so why not now with so-called "trads".
- MJ use in boys is only different in that they just can't go out to any girl they are attracted to and say Ok let's do it. In boys the biggest problem is that they lose their drive for improving themselves, reaching their God given potential and they will self abuse themselves.
Those are just two effects of MJ for recreational among young people to show that in the real world there is rarely any moderation in use for young people.
I dipped my toes into this discussion somewhere...one of the threads...and quickly realized it wasn't going to be fruitful.What better time than Lent to oppose those who arrogate to themselves the charism to read the interior forum of others?
Nothing to pity, when one knows nothing about the person. Basically, there is no way to know anything about anyone here if they do not say anything about themselves. I am proud to post everything I've done since I came back to the Church, and all that God has done for me. So I'll do much more than just answer the four questions. Here is my Catholic bio, my heritage and my life since I came back to the Church:Who cares?
At the age of 40, God brought me back to the Church, and almost directly to the SSPX and the trad mass. I never saw a Novus Ordo mass when I was young, for I left the Church before the N.O. existed and when I came back to the Church I only went like 5 times, before I found the SSPX.
I came back at 40 years of age and 3 years later I met my future wife at mass when she showed up one day. I married her when I was in my late 40's and she was in her early 20's. God sent me not only a young beautiful looking wife, but also a trad Catholic that wanted what I wanted, 12 children. Unfortunately, she had problems at half a dozen, and that is where we are today. She is very organized, is a master chef, and she has been homeschooling the children from K to 12. Our children’s ages run from less than 8 to almost 21. They are all very happy children living in the outdoors on our farm, no cell phones, eating unbelievable food, and all of them with a great sense of humor. We have taught them to not be afraid to question anything we teach. The more questions children ask, the more one knows that they understand.
I was raised by my father and mother and worked with my father in the family business. In other words my Dad and I were together every day from the time I was born till the day he died. My grandfather did the same with my father, and he lived with me also from the day I was born till I was 40. He died when he was almost 101 and was in perfect health, he ate a big dinner, went to sleep and just didn't wake up the next day. My grandfather was the CEO of a company with 5000 employees, and my father the President of a company of 2000 employees. They lost everything, every penny, to communism in 1960, when I was just 6 years old, and they both came to this country and proceeded to work to do it all over again again. Incredible people! They were with me all day till they died, teaching me everything about life and how to teach my children.
My family heritage comes from a Catholic country, a Catholic culture, Spain, but like most Catholic cultures they do not really teach or live the faith, the faith is just something they do on Sunday for an hour. Being a Catholic culture however, almost all that they do and the way they behave, though they do not realize it, came from being a Catholic culture for like ever. Family is everything, and all the cousins and relatives live like across the street and grandparents teach them how things were and should be in the family. Grandparents are their best friend, after their parents, and the grandparents and parents, aunts and uncles, for the children, are their TV, Internet, cell phone, movies, teaching them everything about life. THAT is what I am continuing with my family. I am proud of my family and everything we are doing.
Here I answer the questions:
Do you use MJ recreationally? No, I never used it recreationally. I did however use it as a tool for evil purposes when I was young and foolish, before I came back to the Church
Do you have daughters? Yes, more than 4
Do they know that you are Ok with them smoking MJ recreationally? I am not OK with its use and they know exactly why and any doubts or questions that they have, they have been taught from experience that they can come and ask both my wife and I.
Are they going out by themselves to see friends? No, they are chaperoned by my wife or I, same as my parents, my grandparents, and great grandparents were.
This is how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAgB3qxvRkU&t=83s
To re-cap in short:Use of MJ is not a sin of the flesh.
I am really surprised that there are even three people on CI that are defending recreational use of MJ for young people, even their daughters. But I should have known better because it happened also in the 1960's among Catholics when there were Catholic schools and only the Latin Mass, so why not now with so-called "trads".
Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
Use of MJ is not a sin of the flesh.Where specifically? :confused:
Rather, it's use is encouraged by God in the bible for our benefit.
I am really surprised that there are (even three) people on CI that are defending (recreational) use of MJ (for young people), (even their daughters).This is the epitome of how a woman argues:
This is the epitome of how a woman argues:It's apparent that his own personal experiences with worldliness before his conversion back to the Faith really damaged his view of these things. And then his zeal has blinded him to anything of careful nuance regarding the subject, as he himself admitted. It's one thing to impose a law on one's family for their protection, which is admirable; but another thing entirely to expect it from all other Catholics and then shame them for such.
1. The above phrases (in parenthesis) have not been argued by anyone on CI, specifically, but LT inserts them into the argument to gain "popular" support, much like the modern media.
2. LT doesn't argue like a man, rationally, but repeatedly inserts ideas and "buzz words" which he knows will cause an emotional agreement with his cause. Another modern media tactic.
3. LT refuses to acknowledge the logic of moral theologians on the issue and also is in capable of distinguishing between 'allowance' and 'encouragement'.
4. etc, etc. One could write a 10 page essay of the lack of logic and rationality in LT's posts. I trust him as much as I trust a novus ordo bishop. He has lost all integrity in my eyes.
Where specifically? :confused:
Bringing forth grass for cattle, and herb for the service of men. That thou mayst bring bread out of the earth:" [Psalms 103:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=103&l=14#x)] |
What better time than Lent to oppose those who arrogate to themselves the charism to read the interior forum of others?I've got enough of my own spiritual issues to oppose.
This is the epitome of how a woman argues:I object to this.
My response in bold.QuoteLT wrote: I am really surprised that there are (even three) people on CI that are defending (recreational) use of MJ (for young people), (even their daughters).Pav Vobis responded: This is the epitome of how a woman argues:
1. The above phrases (in parenthesis) have not been argued by anyone on CI, specifically, but LT inserts them into the argument to gain "popular" support, much like the modern media.
(What you wrote here is total conjecture and extrapolating from that. But, I will answer you because you are an EENSer, so you might understand. Every time I wrote about recreational use, my focus was just in one place, the young people, but the adults here, kept defending recreational use by referring to moderate use in the their home by themselves like alcohol is used by responsible adults. So I had to be more precise and be very clear and keep repeating young girls because every time I would forget to insert it, one of the dope defenders would talk about themselves doing it in private in the homes. It is exactly the same as debating with the BODers, the debate goes on for thread after thread after thread and years after years with them quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Alphonsus Ligouri, till I and others came along and shined the light on the reality, that they actually are using those two saints, hiding behind them, when what they really believe is in the salvation of anyone in any religion that is "good" by their belief in a God that rewards, which is called "implicit faith". When I debated with them I had to keep remembering to be precise or else they would slip away like a greased pig. Internet conversations are not like real life, in real life it would not take days to get something out of someone because you are right in front of them. On the internet, just when you think you've made your point to everyone reading it and the people understand, then you leave for three days and everything you wrote is in the past as if you never wrote it, the instant someone that does not like what you said starts writing conjectures and extrapolating from those conjectures, and when you come back it is as if you wrote nothing. Just look at what was written after my bio, and read everything that has flowed from that. I wrote my Catholic story and the pesky two conjecturers and extrapolators, they picked out the age of my wife to go off to crucify LT. It is good that I was away, for they were free to spill their poison and we can see who is who, only two people. To his credit Digital Logos proved himself to be honorable, and was like Reuben with Joseph when his brothers were trying to kill Joseph, he said wait a minute what are you talking about? And he saved Joseph's life.)
2. LT doesn't argue like a man, rationally, but repeatedly inserts ideas and "buzz words" which he knows will cause an emotional agreement with his cause. Another modern media tactic.
(conjectures and extrapolations. Not worthy of an EENSRer. Do I argue like you describe when it is about BOD? No. Then there must be something that you are misinterpreting in what I am saying. Maybe my explanation above will be your answer?)
3. LT refuses to acknowledge the logic of moral theologians on the issue and also is in capable of distinguishing between 'allowance' and 'encouragement'.
(Believing in BOD of every flavor, believing in sedevacates in all it's varieties, RR, Novus Ordo, believing it is OK for our children to marry a Jєω in the Church, ALL are not mortal sins, yet they are subjects that are nuanced and very dangerous to even discuss . What I have written all this time is that encouraging or being indifferent to MJ use among our children and most of all our daughters, is infinitely more dangerous than all of those other subjects put together. )
4. etc, etc. One could write a 10 page essay of the lack of logic and rationality in LT's posts. I trust him as much as I trust a novus ordo bishop. He has lost all integrity in my eyes. ( read all the above and "call me in the morning" )
It's apparent that his own personal experiences with worldliness before his conversion back to the Faith really damaged his view of these things. And then his zeal has blinded him to anything of careful nuance regarding the subject, as he himself admitted. It's one thing to impose a law on one's family for their protection, which is admirable; but another thing entirely to expect it from all other Catholics and then shame them for such.
It kind of reminds me of what someone else mentioned earlier about the American view of alcohol as just a means to get drunk; which was my wife's precise reaction when I was attempting (and failing) the beer fast this Lent. When, as we know, there are varying degrees of acceptable alcohol usage.
It's apparent that his own personal experiences with worldliness before his conversion back to the Faith really damaged his view of these things. And then his zeal has blinded him to anything of careful nuance regarding the subject, as he himself admitted. It's one thing to impose a law on one's family for their protection, which is admirable; but another thing entirely to expect it from all other Catholics and then shame them for such.The quote you agreed with is all conjecture and interpolations from that, so your response is the same since you agree with it.
It kind of reminds me of what someone else mentioned earlier about the American view of alcohol as just a means to get drunk; which was my wife's precise reaction when I was attempting (and failing) the beer fast this Lent. When, as we know, there are varying degrees of acceptable alcohol usage.
THIS^^^
…all conjecture and interpolations…
Johnnie and His Little White RabbitTrying the MJ, are you?
The father of the house came home and called all his children together. He then told them if they gathered up all of their toys, every single last one of them, and gave them away to the poor, that he would then buy them new toys, much more toys, and better toys. However, they had to give away every single toy or else they would not get anything.
The next day the father came home and found a big pile of toys stacked in the living room. He asked the children; is that all the toys, every single last one of them? All the children answered yes, but Johnnie. Johnnie was holding his hands behind his back. His father asked him, Johnnie, did you put all your toys in the pile? Johnnie answered yes, father. The father asked him, Johnnie, what do you have behind your back, show me your hands. Then Johnnie showed his little white stuffed rabbit, his favorite companion. His father said, Johnnie, remember, in order to get the new toys, much more toys than you have now, better toys, you have to give everything away, everything Johnnie. Johnnie answered back, no Daddy, not my little white rabbit, no, I can’t give him away".
Trying the MJ, are you?:laugh2:
were you a serial Peeping Tom?The writer of the above, Mark79, is a perfect example of what everyone should avoid if they want to grow in the faith and be successful in life. He is filled with so much hate of himself and envy of others that he only sees the fly in the dining room filled with sumptuous food. People like that are the types that make it almost impossible for a black man to get out of their poverty, for anyone that tries to improve themselves will be denigrated and ostracized by these envious types and called uncle toms and such. This is what the Clarence Kelly's, Thomas Sowells, and Alan Keyes had to overcome. Only a tremendous drive and incredible strong man can overcome that envy crowd and escape that ghetto. The envious drag down the average man and pulverize him to dust. They are a walking black cloud, they take it with them everywhere they go.
Of course, there is another possibility… You lied that you have "experience," simply did the Meg thing, presumed you know the interior forum and project acts about which you could only perversely know or imagine, and are just what we know you to be—a rabid blowhard perverted bullsh*tter.
Your own statement reveals that you are a seriously disordered person—sɛҳuąƖly and spiritually—who foams and perversely ruminates about and projects the sɛҳuąƖ sins of others. It seems that your stated sɛҳuąƖ past is reflected in your present disorder.
Totally disgusting.
[@LT]
You project your "leg spreader" life before 40 on others as Meg projects her home life on others.
You rage about the imagined sɛҳuąƖ proclivities of others while boasting of your "functionality" and younger wife.
You and Meg pretend you can read the interior forum of others even though you stated you can "know nothing about them."
You are thankful for your family, but you and Meg defecated on the thankfulness of others for their families.
You are seriously disordered spiritually and sɛҳuąƖly.
…The posting above was posted four times by Mark79 because I do not respond to it.…
One can scroll up and read by Catholic bio if I explain something here that appears out of the thin air.Prideful much?
My family history dates way back, we have always been entrepreneurs, makers of work for others. In South America, it is not easy to find work, so one has to invent it to put food on the table. My grandfather was one of 8 children and about 1905 when he was about 16, some epidemic swept through our country I guess, and both his parents and 4 of his siblings died within the same year. My grandfather was left as the oldest survivor to raise his 3 younger siblings when he was 16. When he died at almost 101 years of age his 3 siblings were still alive, they were all like 95 to 98 and in good health. They must have been bullet proof. Pretty amazing. My grandfather was their father till he married them all off. In 1930 my grandfather was out of work because of the depression, and by God's grace, he found a job as a bookkeeper at a giant sugar mill company. He went to school at night and got his accounting degree. By the late 1940's my grandfather was the CEO of the company, with 5000 employees under his care. He was the highest paid executive in our country, at that time making $125,000 dollars. Adjusted for inflation that would be today from $2.5 to over $6 million dollars. My father did the same with his own company and had 2000 employees. In 1960, EVERYTHING, every penny was taken by the communists, and we came to USA with nothing, to start all over again. My grandfather was 70 and my dad was 40. They went straight to work and by 1970 we were living a comfortable life again, with a waterfront home on the bay and leisure time to think. I learned everything I know about success in everything from them.
What was the secret of their success despite losing everything so many times (my grandfather's family lost everything ones, before they made it back, then they died)? The secret was that they emulated the successful and learned from them. They sought out people who were successful and they never stopped at it, improving themselves every day of their lives. You learn something every day. One must always seek perfection and keep growing in their knowledge base for they could lose it all one day and have to do it all over again. Grow in knowledge in every aspect of life, money, health, and most of all the faith. Unfortunately, they did not give the faith much importance, as practically all Catholics do not give the faith much more than baptizing, marrying, and burying in the in Church.
For the faith, I had to do it myself and I did it the same way as I was taught for business and health, by emulating those that were a success at it. I could write many stories of the people I emulated because they were many, but I will just mention two:
The first was a lady in his late 80's. She was a lady, an Italian American Southern Bell (odd combination, no?) with the accent of a Southern pre-cινιℓ ωαr aristocrat plantation owner. She was a middle class lady, her husband worked as a mechanic in an airline, but he had died before I first met her. She was always talking about the great life she had as a child growing up with her other 13 siblings. I always liked to talk to older people to learn from them and I was very adept at getting them to talk for hours. It is easy to do when you are genuinely fascinated with everything they say. We'll from this lady, I learned what marriage was for. You see, my concept of marriage was that of my parents, that it is for life, and the idea of being with all the girls I was with for life didn't even enter my mind. The thought of marrying never entered my mind. Amazing as it seems, I learned what marriage was for, it was to raise a big happy Catholic family. Three years later my wife walked into the SSPX chapel I was attending and she had the same mind as I to have 12 children. We married when she was 25 and I was 47. One might ask how it was possible that a man 47 could convince a beautiful girl 25 to marry him, well the answer is that the man was young at heart, not set in his way, ready to learn something everyday, loved children, and by the grace of God, good genes and physical exercise didn't look or act 47.
The other lady that influenced me, was a mother of 12. Everybody said she was too strict, but I saw different. Her husband was the happy humorous lover of life, walking sunshine, while she was the teacher of the faith. I saw in her right away someone to emulate, and my wife and I became very close with that family. That so-called "too strict" lady's 12 children are all now either priests (the men) or have beautiful trad wives with many, and the girls all married successful professional men. All with many children and more on the way. That "too strict" lady is the good ground upon which the seed fell and multiplied one hundred fold. There was one grand example to follow and we were there as it unfolded learning how it is done.
Pax Vobis wrote:
1. The above phrases (in parenthesis) have not been argued by anyone on CI, specifically, but LT inserts them into the argument to gain "popular" support, much like the modern media.
(What you wrote here is total conjecture and extrapolating from that. But, I will answer you because you are an EENSer, so you might understand. Every time I wrote about recreational use, my focus was just in one place, the young people, but some adults here kept defending recreational use by referring to moderate use in the their home by themselves like alcohol is used by responsible adults. So I had to be more precise and be very clear and keep repeating "young girls" because every time I would forget to insert it, one of the dope defenders would talk about themselves doing it in private in the homes. It is exactly the same as debating with the BODers, the debate goes on for thread after thread after thread and years after years with them quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Alphonsus Ligouri, till I and others came along and shined the light on the reality, that they actually are using those two saints, hiding behind them, when what they really believe is in the salvation of anyone in any religion that is "good" by their belief in a God that rewards, which is called "implicit faith". When I debated with them I had to keep remembering to be precise or else they would slip away like a greased pig. Internet conversations are not like real life, in real life it would not take days to get something out of someone because you are right in front of them. On the internet, just when you think you've made your point to everyone reading it and the people understand, then you leave for three days and everything you wrote is in the past as if you never wrote it, the instant someone that does not like what you said starts writing conjectures and extrapolating from those conjectures, and when you come back it is as if you wrote nothing. Just look at what was written after my bio, and read everything that has flowed from that. I wrote my Catholic story and the pesky two conjecturers and extrapolators, they picked out the age of my wife to go off to crucify LT. It is good that I was away, for they were free to spill their poison and we can see who is who, only two people. )
2. LT doesn't argue like a man, rationally, but repeatedly inserts ideas and "buzz words" which he knows will cause an emotional agreement with his cause. Another modern media tactic.
(conjectures and extrapolations. Not worthy of an EENSRer. Do I argue like you describe when it is about BOD? No. Then there must be something that you are misinterpreting in what I am saying. Maybe my explanation above will be your answer?)
3. LT refuses to acknowledge the logic of moral theologians on the issue and also is in capable of distinguishing between 'allowance' and 'encouragement'.
(Believing in BOD of every flavor, believing in sedevacates in all it's varieties, RR, Novus Ordo, believing it is OK for our children to marry a Jєω in the Church, ALL are not mortal sins, yet they are subjects that are nuanced and very dangerous to even discuss . What I have written all this time is that encouraging or being indifferent to MJ use among our children and most of all our daughters, is infinitely more dangerous than all of those other subjects put together. )
4. etc, etc. One could write a 10 page essay of the lack of logic and rationality in LT's posts. I trust him as much as I trust a novus ordo bishop. He has lost all integrity in my eyes. ( read all the above and "call me in the morning" )
In bold I responded to your comments, does that help you to understand where I am coming from?No, I don't care anymore. God bless you.
No, I don't care anymore. God bless you.A debate about what one advises their young girls and boys about recreational use of MJ, and you do not care anymore? Meanwhile you have written reams on BOD, sede, and whatever, enough to have a score of +4629/-1448? It sure reads like you are indifferent to MJ use.
I think the problem may be that you are indifferent to MJ, while you have conviction and are adamantly opposed to salvation by implict faith & RR, two subject that you have written volumes on, really 10,000 times more than I have written on MJ for young girls in the last few days. Obviously, I must see something that you do not see.
Nothing to pity, when one knows nothing about the person. Basically, there is no way to know anything about anyone here if they do not say anything about themselves. I am proud…
Utterly clueless. There is indeed much to pity in a man who imagines he left behind his life before 40 while still projecting those decades upon others "there is no way to know anything about."
Glad you have a nice family. Glad you reverted to the Faith.
How clueless that you can be thankful for your own family, but have repeatedly defecated upon others' thankfulness and families. For pages upon pages in multiple threads you have expelled your innuendo like explosive diarrhea. That life before 40 was yours, not ours.
Your opposition to MJ is of trivial concern compared to your and Meg's constant contumacious projection of the interior forum of others about whom, in your own words, "there is no way to know anything about." http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/05/27/traditional-catholic-sin-against-the-holy-spirit/ (http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/05/27/traditional-catholic-sin-against-the-holy-spirit/)
This debate has panned out just like a debate on EENS & "Salvation of all by Implicit Faith" in that Mark79 has duped the indifferent by doing an end run around the 32 points above without answering any of them, which are all facts from the real world, that anyone can observe about recreational use of marijuana by young people. It is the same with EENS, they just do an end run around all the dogmas to convince today 99% of Catholics that nice people are somehow saved.
From Tradman:
Recreational use of Marijuana
“1. Opens the soul to demonic influence.
2. Weakens moral judgement
3. Promotes immorality
4. Fosters narcissism
5. Leads to moral pessimism
6. Is socially and morally divisive
7. Promotes laziness toward Catholic works
8. Promotes disobedience to priests and the Church
9. Promotes disobedience to secular authority
10. Is a safety issue for children who's parents use.
11. Causes neglect, and abuse of children by parents who use
12. Dulls sense of guilt and is counter to Sacrament of Confession
13. Profanes the reception of the Eucharist
14. Is falsely equated with moderate use of alcohol
15. Often leads to use of other drugs
16. Promotes secrecy and leads to animosity
17. Promotes other crime
18. Often destroys relationships
19. Impedes the desire to attain heaven
20. Leads to a liberal and worldly mindset
21. Retards emotions
22. Wastes opportunities for good
23 Impedes Christ's mandate to evangelize
24 Denies Scripture's command to stay sober
25 Denies the modest conduct of Our Lady
26 Leads to the unforgivable sin of despair
27 Is often its own object of worship
28. Causes certain kinds of brain damage
29. Often leads to other addictions
30. Inhibits holiness
31. Is well founded in paganism, abhorred in Christendom
32. Is proven by all the above to be a "sacrament" of the diabolic
This list is by no means exhaustive, barely even scratches the surface. After it exceeded 21, I figured this was enough to get the picture. If anyone disagrees, present your argument. Whatever you do, don't smoke weed, rather, do penance for the salvation of souls.”
You may feel differently if you or a loved one ever get a cancer which is incurable by western means but very curable through the use of MJ.That's medicinal use, not recreational use.
A debate about what one advises their young girls and boys about recreational use of MJ, and you do not care anymore?I said I don't care anymore, in answer to your question about understanding you. I didn't say I didn't care about the topic. This is just a small example of your lack of reading comprehension. It makes such conversations impossible.
That's medicinal use, not recreational use.Yes, this is panning out identically to the EENS & Implicit faith debates. The difference here is that we are not fighting an uphill battle against 99% of Catholics like in the EENS/Implicit Faith debate, but it is the other way around.
The end runs are switching to medical use and sentimentalism for the sick, which is not what we are discussing here, and saying that according to moral theology "marijuana use is neutral, that it depends of how it is used". Those are just end runs that do not answer the real issues with recreational MJ use among the young.
WE GET YOUR POINTS (especially after the 5th time), WE JUST DISAGREE. Obviously the idea of someone disagreeing with you is so astounding that you have to create new threads to find other people's validation, in an attempt to stop the pain your ego is feeling. It's very similar to what Sean Johnson does all the time. And it's quite an interesting observation that as he has been quiet these last few months, you have stepped into the ego/control-freak vacuum and filled his spot quite nicely. I guess every site has to have 1 person like this. You used to not be this way and the change is regrettable.Who is we? names? And what do you disagree with? Your posting is useless.
Who is we? names? And what do you disagree with? Your posting is useless.This is a primary example of a reply which proves you don't care to have an intelligent conversation. "What do I disagree with"? Have you not read any of my posts or you just don't care about an alternative view from your own? I think we all know the answer.
This is a primary example of a reply which proves you don't care to have an intelligent conversation. "What do I disagree with"? Have you not read any of my posts or you just don't care about an alternative view from your own? I think we all know the answer.Objectively, a blog would actually suit him well.
I think you should go start your own website so you can be the moderator and bloviate to your heart's content. You seem to have the no interest in learning from others and having your views challenged, that is apparent. Narcissism 101.
…supporters of recreational use of marijuana among young girls and boys, then that will end the debate.
Of course you haven't responded.
You demand answers from others about their private lives, but will not answer questions about your public postings.
You claimed you "experienced" the advice of multiple priests and the content of multiple penitents' confessions before and after the advice, so that you were in a position to judge the effectiveness of the advice of their confessors.
Then, blind to your hypocrisy and illogic, you made a statement that you could not know such things about others.
You have projected your own disordered life before 40 on others. You boasted about your "functionality" as if anyone here shares your embarrassing obsession with sex.
You have repeated your family stories in multiple threads about alcohol and MJ, that you have de-railed into your sɛҳuąƖ projections. Then, in a completely unrelated thread, I made a single post thanking my family for all they have done for me, you and Meg defecated on my thankfulness for pages upon pages.
In your world, your family deserves our appreciation and respect, but ours do not deserve your respect or manners.
You play victim to our "hate" (in reality, our pity) while inferring that in real life you'd relish a physical fight with us about matters you admitted you cannot know.
You (like Meg) have publicly demonstrated you are a pathetic, hysterical, mental, spiritual, and sɛҳuąƖ basket case.
This is a primary example of a reply which proves you don't care to have an intelligent conversation. "What do I disagree with"? Have you not read any of my posts or you just don't care about an alternative view from your own? I think we all know the answer.It is very simple for you to respond to my questions. I do not want to once again be told that I am misinterpreting what you said and lose more time. They are simple questions. I hope you notice that all your responses are ad-hominems. That is no way for a gentleman to respond.
I think you should go start your own website so you can be the moderator and bloviate to your heart's content. You seem to have the no interest in learning from others and having your views challenged, that is apparent. Narcissism 101.
Yes, this is panning out identically to the EENS & Implicit faith debates. The difference here is that we are not fighting an uphill battle against 99% of Catholics like in the EENS/Implicit Faith debate, but it is the other way around.Like 80% of everything I have ever written on CI was about EENS/Implicit Faith, where I was up against like 99% of Catholics who have been slow boiled to believe over like a 150 year period to end up believing that "good" people can be saved in other religions. If I went up against 99% of Catholics and that subject, this MJ issue is a piece of cake, for 99% of the Catholics here believe as I do, that it should be an Oxymoron to say a "Catholic supporter of recreational use of marijuana by young people". This is strictly a debate between like 4 pot smokers vs the entire membership of CI.
You know that after I posted the quote below it occurred to me that I should have put sentimentalism.
LT said: your responses are ad-hominems. That is no way for a gentleman to respond.That is true, I should have written instead like above. But once again you take your time to write, but you do not answer my simple questions. So, I will make it even simpler for you, go see my actual reprint of Jone here Marijuana use sinful for Catholics? - page 27 - Fighting Errors in the Modern World - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com) (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/marijuana-use-sinful-for-catholics/msg814508/?topicseen#msg814508) which you have been "interpreting" but never posting.
LT, very next post, uses an ad hominem: This is strictly a debate between like 4pot smokersdefenders of recreational MJ use among young girls and boys vs the entire membership of CI.
:laugh2: You can't make this stuff up. It's comedy gold.
LT said: your responses are ad-hominems. That is no way for a gentleman to respond.
LT, very next post, uses an ad hominem: This is strictly a debate between like 4 pot smokers vs the entire membership of CI.
:laugh2: You can't make this stuff up. It's comedy gold.
That is true, I should have written instead like above. But once again you take your time to write, but you do not answer my simple questions. So, I will make it even simpler for you, go see my actual reprint of Jone here Marijuana use sinful for Catholics? - page 27 - Fighting Errors in the Modern World - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com) (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/marijuana-use-sinful-for-catholics/msg814508/?topicseen#msg814508) which you have been "interpreting" but never posting.
LT, I've posted a lot on this topic; feel free to go re-read. I've agreed with the excerpts from moral theology manuals because this is the mind of the Church. I can neither add or subtract from what Church authorities have written because my opinion doesn't matter. (You are right your opinion does not matter when we have the docuмent to read directly which I posted)My response in bold. If you had anything you would have posted it instead of trying an end run around the 32 reasons and now even around Jone Moral Theology itself with your "but you a) can't comprehend it or b) don't like the answer".
I (and many, many others) have TRIED to explain to you what these theology manuals are saying (I like you said correctly above your opinion doesn't matter)
but you a) can't comprehend it or b) don't like the answer. ( Neither 1 or 2 is correct, for they come from your opinion and not Jone itself, which you nor anyone else posted. Now everyone can read it directly for themselves, not your "opinion")
when we have the docuмent to read directly which I postedWhat docuмent and on which thread? On the very first thread that was started, Jone was quoted multiple times and you ignored/fought the direct quotes. So I have no idea what new quotes you're talking about.
Children have no rights.
A debate about what one advises their young girls and boys about recreational use of MJ, and you do not care anymore? Meanwhile you have written reams on BOD, sede, and whatever, enough to have a score of +4629/-1448? It sure reads like you are indifferent to MJ use.This thread is not about any sin of the flesh except in your own mind.
Anyone that goes through my history here on CI will see that I debate zero about Sede/R&R, that I really only write about 1) BOD, and to a lessor degree 2) about sins of the flesh, 3) and NWO/communism. I do not write about sede/R&R because I am indifferent to it. It is all speculation. It looks like you are similarly indifferent to MJ use, what one advises their young girls and boys about recreational use of MJ.
It is like I told Ladislaus:
This thread is about sins of the flesh "what one advises their young girls and boys about recreational use of MJ", but you are indifferent?
Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
That's medicinal use, not recreational use.We will never get proper medicinal use unless recreational use is legalized.
This is a primary example of a reply which proves you don't care to have an intelligent conversation. "What do I disagree with"? Have you not read any of my posts or you just don't care about an alternative view from your own? I think we all know the answer.Well said!
I think you should go start your own website so you can be the moderator and bloviate to your heart's content. You seem to have the no interest in learning from others and having your views challenged, that is apparent. Narcissism 101.
With regard to drunkenness we reply that it is a mortal sin by reason of its genus: for that a man, without necessity, and through the mere lust of wine, makes himself unable to use his reason, whereby he is directed to God and avoids committing many sins, is expressly contrary to virtue. That it be a venial sin is due to some sort of ignorance or weakness, as when a man is ignorant of the strength of the wine, or of his own unfitness, so that he has no thought of getting drunk, for in that case the drunkenness is not imputed to him as a sin, but only the excessive drink…." (Summa Theologica, I-II, q. 88, art. 5, ad1)
The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law." (§2291)This does not, however, exclude the use of narcotic drugs for therapeutic reasons. Their use, under medical supervision, is justified by a sufficiently grave and proportionate reason, even if they do deprive a person temporarily of the use of reason. (Cf. Merkelbach, Summa Theologiae Moralis, II, 925). For it is not the loss of reason which is willed. It is only an indirect consequence, so that there is not necessarily a disorder with respect to the final end of man. The typical example is pain control.
Is smoking marijuana a sin?
“Neither the effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards...will possess the kingdom of God” (I Cor. 6:10). Drunkenness is a deliberate excess in the use of intoxicating drink or drugs to the point of forcibly depriving oneself of the use of reason for the sake of gratifying an inordinate desire for such drink and not for the sake of promoting health. This is contrary to the virtue of temperance, and specifically sobriety. Sobriety regulates man’s desire and use of intoxicants, and is vitally necessary for an upright moral life.
The evil of intoxication lies in the violence committed against one’s nature by depriving it of the use of reason. He deprives himself of that which makes him specifically human — his ability to think. The drunk, or in this case the drug user, desires this loss of reason because of the feeling of liberation which accompanies it precisely from this lack of control of the will over the reason. It is unnatural, contrary to sleep, which also deprives one of the use of reason but in a natural manner.
Drug use gives an illicit means of escape. Besides being a sin, it also manifests an immaturity on the part of the user. Through an act of violence against himself, he escapes from the responsibility of decision making and control in his life. When this deprivation is complete, e.g., actions totally contrary to normal behavior, incapability of distinguishing between good and evil, etc., it is a grave sin. “In vino veritas,” said the Romans, not without reason. Any state short of complete drunkenness, without sufficient reason, is of itself venially sinful, but even in this case it may be a mortal sin if it causes scandal, injury to health, harm to one’s family, etc. It is important also to note that a man is responsible for all the sinful actions committed while intoxicated which he had, or ought to have, foreseen.
According to Jone-Adelman in Moral Theology, the use of drugs in small quantities and only occasionally is a venial sin if done without sufficient reason. This could be the case, for example, with sleeping pills. Obviously, deprivation of the use of reason through narcotics is to be judged as alcohol. The use of most drugs is complicated by the fact that they are illegal. This also signifies the will of the user to break the law, an offense against social justice. This compounds the sin. The speed with which a drug alters one’s consciousness also aggravates its use. This rapidity risks a greater potential to deprive oneself of the use of reason and thus to pass on to stronger intoxicants for increased effect.
Therefore, adding to the violation of the virtue of justice, the grave scandal caused, the grave danger of addiction, and the stronger consciousness-altering ability of marijuana, it is difficult to excuse one of mortal sin. Moreover, experience tells us that its use is frequently an occasion of mortal sin, especially sins of the flesh and the use of narcotic drugs. But to willingly and knowingly place oneself in an unnecessary proximate occasion of mortal sin is to commit a mortal sin. Fr. James Doran, September 1993
Is it a mortal sin to use drugs?
The old text books [on moral theology] do not speak of this new problem of the modern world. However, the immorality of drug abuse can be clearly deduced from the principles which allow an evaluation of the malice of alcohol abuse. The distinction is made between imperfect drunkenness, the fact of making oneself tipsy deliberately, which can only be a venial sin, and perfect drunkenness, which is drinking until one is drunk. This is a mortal sin because a drunken person loses the use of reason. This is St. Thomas Aquinas’s response to the objection that the quantity of wine drunk is but a circuмstance, which cannot make a venial sin into a mortal sin:
The consumption of illegal drugs, even those called soft drugs, is comparable not to becoming tipsy on a little wine but to perfect drunkenness. For these drugs have their effect by causing a “high,” that is, an emotional experience when a person escapes from the demands of reality. For a brief period he lives in an unreal, euphoric world. All the other effects, such as relaxation, come as a consequence of this “high,” or unreal euphoria. If this state does not always prohibit all use of reason, it most certainly does always impede the most important use of reason, which St. Thomas just explained to us “whereby he is directed to God and avoids committing many sins.” All drugs deaden the conscience, and obscure the practical judgment as to right and wrong and what we must do. With respect to morality, their effect is consequently equivalent to the removal of the use of reason, and is a practical refusal to direct all of man’s acts to God through reason.
Drug abuse is consequently much worse than the pure seeking of pleasure or relaxation that some claim it to be. It is a denial of the natural and supernatural order, according to which God has created us in His image and likeness that our acts might be ordered to His honor and glory. Moreover, it goes without saying that the abuse of drugs is directly opposed to the Catholic spirit, which spirit of sacrifice, the practical application of the spirit of the cross, is essential to the living of our faith.
As previously mentioned, the principal evil of drug abuse is the destruction of moral conscience. It follows that the atrocious consequences of drug abuse are inseparable from it, and are willed together with the drugs themselves. This includes the breaking of the law in the consumption of drugs; and in the means of obtaining them, such as theft; and in the effort to sell them in turn to others, often minors or children. Other consequences include the incredible self-indulgence which accompanies the almost insatiable desire for always more titillating experiences, sins of blasphemy, the often satanic rock music, and the sins against purity and chastity, which are the consequence of the loss of shame and conscience.
Sins against charity and justice abound, such as disobedience to parents and refusal to do one’s duty at school or work, not to mention the bad company-keeping which is the breeding ground of all vices. Long term results are also willed in their cause, and they include such things as emotional and physical addiction, the passage from soft to hard drugs, the damage done to the body and to general health by prolonged drug use, culminating in the “fried” brains of the person who cannot even reason clearly, let alone make a moral judgment. It is a mortal sin to place one’s physical and spiritual health in such proximate danger, even if a person is to pretend that he is immune from this danger and that “it could not happen to me.”
Even the often liberal and ambiguous Catechism of the Catholic Church (https://sspx.org/en/faq-page/what-are-we-think-of-the-new-catechism-faq14), published in 1994 in application of the principles of Vatican II, acknowledges this:This does not, however, exclude the use of narcotic drugs for therapeutic reasons. Their use, under medical supervision, is justified by a sufficiently grave and proportionate reason, even if they do deprive a person temporarily of the use of reason. (Cf. Merkelbach, Summa Theologiae Moralis, II, 925). For it is not the loss of reason which is willed. It is only an indirect consequence, so that there is not necessarily a disorder with respect to the final end of man. The typical example is pain control.
In conclusion, therefore, the use of marijuana, like any hard or soft drug, must be considered a mortal sin. If on occasion some people might be in ignorance as to the gravity of this sin, it is clearly evident that the matter is objectively serious. Consequently, it must be confessed as a mortal sin, and a person is obliged to confess drug abuse under pain of a bad or sacrilegious confession. If he forgot to confess the sin, he must then confess it at the first possible opportunity that he has. The priest who claimed that this was not a mortal sin has fallen into the trap of laxity.
Fr. Peter Scott, January 1999
https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/smoking-marijuana-sin-3188
Bringing forth grass for cattle, and herb for the service of men. That thou mayst bring bread out of the earth:" [Psalms 103:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=103&l=14#x)] |
I will trump your Fr. Scott:Totally Protestant, self-interpretation, "bible only".
[Psalms 103:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=103&l=14#x)]
And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=29-29&q=1#x)
Genesis 1:29
Totally Protestant, self-interpretation, "bible only".Again, your reading comprehension skills and putting words in my mouth are appalling.
One has to have a long line of Doctors, Saints, Popes, time approved teachings. With scripture, one can justify just about anything, that is why there are as many Protestant sects as there are Protestants. One can justify Vatican II and the Vatical II religion, and of course recreational smoking of marijuana by young girls and boys, as the writer above is doing. Not Catholic.
:facepalm: The Church of LT...not based on principles or facts but strictly emotions.…and soul reading projections of disordered sɛҳuąƖity, intellect, and hypocritical Pharisaism.
You (plural) point to the Church teaching about being "sober." THAT is based on the risks of abuse. I see no mention in 1 Thessalonians 5:7-9 of exceptions, so how exactly does the Church justify ANY use of alcohol? Return to first principles: avoid undue risk of self-harm (whether physically or spiritually).
Since you claim MJ use is different from alcohol use, the burden is on YOU to make the case for the moral or medical difference—on something more substantial than your half-baked [pun-intended] "opinion."
No. I cannot point to "a" single study, but to dozens, even hundreds of studies. Glad you asked. :jester:
Start here, my bibliography for a series of 8 articles I wrote about medical marijuana in 2010-2011 when it was an issue in our state:
Important reviews
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1
AIDS/HIV
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
“Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86
ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004
Alzheimer's Disease
Alzheimer's Disease
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003
Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Cancer
Gliomas/Cancer
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
“Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1
Cardiovascular disease
The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm
Crohns Disease
Gastrointestinal Disorders
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009
Endocannabinoid sysytem
The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf
Endocrine disease, diabetes
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf
Fibromyalgia
Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
Fibromyalgia
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007
Glaucoma
American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124
Hepatitis C
Hepatitis C
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010
Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360
Muscle Spasms
Dystonia
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
“Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106
Nausea
See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Pain
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Chronic Pain
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
“Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#
Post traumatic Stress Disorder
Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
[Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf
Public policy
Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf
Seizures
See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
“Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115
You (plural) point to the Church teaching about being "sober." THAT is based on the risks of abuse. I see no mention in 1 Thessalonians 5:7-9 of exceptions, so how exactly does the Church justify ANY use of alcohol? Return to first principles: avoid undue risk of self-harm (whether physically or spiritually).
Since you claim MJ use is different from alcohol use, the burden is on YOU to make the case for the moral or medical difference—on something more substantial than your half-baked [pun-intended] "opinion."
No. I cannot point to "a" single study, but to dozens, even hundreds of studies. Glad you asked. :jester:
Start here, my bibliography for a series of 8 articles I wrote about medical marijuana in 2010-2011 when it was an issue in our state:
Important reviews
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1
AIDS/HIV
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
“Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86
ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004
Alzheimer's Disease
Alzheimer's Disease
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003
Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Cancer
Gliomas/Cancer
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
“Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1
Cardiovascular disease
The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm
Crohns Disease
Gastrointestinal Disorders
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009
Endocannabinoid sysytem
The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf
Endocrine disease, diabetes
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf
Fibromyalgia
Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
Fibromyalgia
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007
Glaucoma
American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124
Hepatitis C
Hepatitis C
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010
Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360
Muscle Spasms
Dystonia
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
“Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106
Nausea
See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Pain
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Chronic Pain
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
“Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#
Post traumatic Stress Disorder
Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
[Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf
Public policy
Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf
Seizures
See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
“Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115
This. This is all that we have been arguing. We don't have to be pro-pot or even pot smokers ourselves to know this.
Since Catholic moral theology allows appropriate and judicious use of a potentially deadly substance like alcohol, the same exact moral theology principles allow appropriate and judicious use of a safer and beneficial substance like marijuana.
You know… logic. No soul reading involved.
Is smoking marijuana a sin?
…
Fr. Peter Scott, January 1999
Based totally on an erroneous understanding of the risks and benefits of marijuana. The dose of marijuana ingested is easily titratable, so that one may avoid "drunkenness" and "loss of reason."Yep.
Even if used recreationally, judicious and appropriate use affords medical benefits, so such use can in no way be honestly judged "violence to self."
:facepalm: The Church of LT...not based on principles or facts but strictly emotions.I have never read more emotional, narcissistic vomit than when I read most of his posts.
Yep.Really? He was a physician? If so and if he is no longer practicing, that would explain why his understanding is so obsolete.
Fr. Scott is a brainwashed ex-MD.
Injesting MJ is much safer than smoking.
Really? He was a physician? If so and if he is no longer practicing, that would explain why his understanding is so obsolete.Yep.
Correction. Fr Scott studied medicine in his previous life. He was not an MD.wine is o.k. then a little MJ is o.k. loss of the use of reason is the key, as in drunkeness.
Fr. Scott was an MD is his previous life. If a little
I will trump your Fr. Scott:
[Psalms 103:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=103&l=14#x)]
And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=29-29&q=1#x)
Genesis 1:29
Correction. Fr Scott studied medicine in his previous life. He was not an MD.Do you know specifics?
Fr. Peter Scott studied medicine before entering the seminary and was ordained in 1988 by Archbishop Lefebvre.I understand that he did not practice medicine, except as a student.
Important reviews
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1
AIDS/HIV
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
“Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86
ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004
Alzheimer's Disease
Alzheimer's Disease
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003
Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Cancer
Gliomas/Cancer
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
“Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1
Cardiovascular disease
The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm
Crohns Disease
Gastrointestinal Disorders
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009
Endocannabinoid sysytem
The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf
Endocrine disease, diabetes
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf
Fibromyalgia
Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
Fibromyalgia
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007
Glaucoma
American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124
Hepatitis C
Hepatitis C
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010
Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360
Muscle Spasms
Dystonia
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
“Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106
Nausea
See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Pain
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Chronic Pain
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
“Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#
Post traumatic Stress Disorder
Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
[Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf
Public policy
Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf
Seizures
See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
“Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115
http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/medical/brain_death_and_organ_harvesting.htm
I understand that he did not practice medicine, except as a student.
Not to say he "flunked out of med school" or "dabbled in quackery., merely that he did not continue in medicine for the body but medicine for the soul.