Author Topic: Organ Donations (Read 2056 times)

2Vermont · « **on:** June 02, 2024, 07:47:43 PM »

What is the Church teaching regarding organ donations after death?

Miseremini · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2024, 08:30:20 PM »

I highly doubt you'll find anything pre vat II as it would have been considered only something a mad scientist might try or Frankenstein.

Nadir · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2024, 10:40:56 PM »

As transplants were not a thing I think until the first heart transplant in 1967, there would not be a teaching on the subject pre Vat2.

Here is what CCC has to say:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that:^{[color=var(--color-visited)]}[/color][/sup][/font][/size]

Organ transplants are in conformity with the moral law if the physical and psychological dangers and risks to the donor are proportionate to the good sought for the recipient. Organ donation after death is a noble and meritorious act and is to be encouraged as a expression of generous solidarity. It is not morally acceptable if the donor or his proxy has not given explicit consent. Moreover, it is not morally admissible to bring about the disabling mutilation or death of a human being, even in order to delay the death of other persons.

Against the Heresies · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2024, 10:57:26 PM »

Organs that exist twice (e.g. lungs, kidneys) can be donated.

All other organs cannot be donated because their removal leads to the death of the person.

There is no organ transplant after death in the Catholic sense (i.e. the separation of the soul from the body). In reality, the removal always takes place from a living person, who is declared to be "brain dead" or something similar.

Ascension · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2024, 11:06:53 PM »

Quote from: Against the Heresies on June 02, 2024, 10:57:26 PM

Organs that exist twice (e.g. lungs, kidneys) can be donated.

All other organs cannot be donated because their removal leads to the death of the person.

There is no organ transplant after death in the Catholic sense (i.e. the separation of the soul from the body). In reality, the removal always takes place from a living person, who is declared to be "brain dead" or something similar.

Perfectly written and exactly true.

Nadir · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2024, 11:39:15 PM »

Quote from: Against the Heresies on June 02, 2024, 10:57:26 PM

Organs that exist twice (e.g. lungs, kidneys) can be donated.

All other organs cannot be donated because their removal leads to the death of the person.

There is no organ transplant after death in the Catholic sense (i.e. the separation of the soul from the body). In reality, the removal always takes place from a living person, who is declared to be "brain dead" or something similar.

The bolded is not true.

Organs that can be donated by living donors -
One kidney. Segment of the liver. One lobe of the lung, part of the pancreas, or part of the intestine.

After true death Body tissue can also be transplanted, including heart valves, bone, tendons, ligaments, skin, parts of the eye, and bone marrow

Ascension · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2024, 12:12:30 AM »

This article is on-topic and quite eye-opening:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4100619/#:~:text=If%20circulation%20does%20not%20stop,patient%20dies%20without%20donating%20organs.

2Vermont · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2024, 05:52:41 AM »

So, this was my thinking when this topic came up with friends last night. If traditional Catholic teaching is to not cremate our bodies after death, why would it be okay to remove an organ after death? Aren't we prohibited from cremation because of the teaching on the resurrection of the body? Why would it be different if our bodies were not fully intact at death?

Unless I'm completely wrong about all of the above....

Bonaventure · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2024, 08:08:16 AM »

A couple of years ago I attended a talk on this subject by Dr. Byrne, and old and wise doctor who, based upon Catholic principles, was adamantly opposed to organ donation (regardless of the Church's present stance on it). Essentially, he pointed to the high rate of organ refusal by the recipient, concluding that for the most part, God did not intend us to be swapping organs with one another. It was also at this time that I learned that, despite what I was told when I signed up to be a donor when getting my license, organ donors had to be alive.... at least from a blood circulatory sense... in order to harvest organs. Once blood circulation stops, doctors have between 3 and 5 minutes to harvest the organ, otherwise it is "dead" tissue and can not be used in any transplant. So, if you have "donor" on your license, and you're in the hospital and things aren't looking too good... maybe you're in a coma, maybe you're "brain dead"* but still showing some activity, how much trust are you going to put into your doctor who may be looking at your with $ signs in his eyes? Don't you think there may be an incentive to "pull the plug" prematurely if they can harvest your organs immediately prior to doing so?

Here is Dr. Byrne's talk:

Then there is this article from a few years back: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2011/05/04/a-vexing-problem/

Note the following:

In short, there is no such thing as retrieving an organ for transplant "...after death..." of the donor; the donor must be ALIVE in order to successfully harvest the organs.

After learning this, the next time it was up for me to renew my driver's license, I revoked my prior status as an organ donor.

2Vermont · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2024, 08:14:37 AM »

Quote from: Bonaventure on June 03, 2024, 08:08:16 AM

A couple of years ago I attended a talk on this subject by Dr. Byrne, and old and wise doctor who, based upon Catholic principles, was adamantly opposed to organ donation (regardless of the Church's present stance on it). Essentially, he pointed to the high rate of organ refusal by the recipient, concluding that for the most part, God did not intend us to be swapping organs with one another. It was also at this time that I learned that, despite what I was told when I signed up to be a donor when getting my license, organ donors had to be alive.... at least from a blood circulatory sense... in order to harvest organs. Once blood circulation stops, doctors have between 3 and 5 minutes to harvest the organ, otherwise it is "dead" tissue and can not be used in any transplant. So, if you have "donor" on your license, and you're in the hospital and things aren't looking too good... maybe you're in a coma, maybe you're "brain dead"* but still showing some activity, how much trust are you going to put into your doctor who may be looking at your with $ signs in his eyes? Don't you think there may be an incentive to "pull the plug" prematurely if they can harvest your organs immediately prior to doing so?

Here is Dr. Byrne's talk:

Then there is this article from a few years back: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2011/05/04/a-vexing-problem/

Note the following:

In short, there is no such thing as retrieving an organ for transplant "...after death..." of the donor; the donor must be ALIVE in order to successfully harvest the organs.

After learning this, the next time it was up for me to renew my driver's license, I revoked my prior status as an organ donor.

At some point I changed my driver's license too, but I don't recall why.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2024, 08:32:30 AM »

Quote from: Against the Heresies on June 02, 2024, 10:57:26 PM

Organs that exist twice (e.g. lungs, kidneys) can be donated.

All other organs cannot be donated because their removal leads to the death of the person.

It doesn't have to just be that they exist twice, but, rather, according to the second principle you stated, the organ removal cannot cause the death of a person. You can, for instance, remove part of a liver. You could, in theory remove both eyes, etc.

Apart from this moral principle, however, I find something contra naturam to transfer organs from one person to another. These are more than just lumps of tissue, as I hold that they're permeated somehow by the animal soul and are tied to the individual who was born with them. I've heard stories from, say, eye transplants, where the organ recipient could see some things that the donor had seen in his life. With that said, if someone needed a kidney to live or at least to get off dialysis, I don't think it would be immoral to donate one.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2024, 08:39:35 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on June 03, 2024, 05:52:41 AM

So, this was my thinking when this topic came up with friends last night. If traditional Catholic teaching is to not cremate our bodies after death, why would it be okay to remove an organ after death? Aren't we prohibited from cremation because of the teaching on the resurrection of the body? Why would it be different if our bodies were not fully intact at death?

Unless I'm completely wrong about all of the above....

I think it's more about the theological implications than physical ones. God can (and will) reconstitute the bodies of those who have been cremated, or, say, vaporized in some explosion. So it's not that somehow cremation makes the resurrection of their body impossible for God, but rather that in the minds of many cremation expresses a lack of belief in the resurrection. Does removing organs have that same implication? I'm not sure. I don't think removing organs has ever been done for any religious significance, but either to preserve the body (before St. Pius X, most popes had their organs removed during the embalming process) or for organ donation, both for decidedly utilitarian purposes rather than religious or idealogical ones.

As I said in my previous post, however, I do agree that there seems to be somthing contra naturam about even technically-licit organ removal/donation.

2Vermont · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2024, 05:47:22 AM »

Quote from: Ascension on June 03, 2024, 12:12:30 AM

This article is on-topic and quite eye-opening:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4100619/#:~:text=If%20circulation%20does%20not%20stop,patient%20dies%20without%20donating%20organs.

Thank you for this. This might help my friends who are not Catholic and considering organ donation.

BOTHY · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2024, 05:10:20 PM »

This site has more Dr.Byrne material.

Truth About Organ Donation

Author Topic: Organ Donations (Read 2056 times)

2Vermont

Organ Donations

Miseremini

Re: Organ Donations

Nadir

Re: Organ Donations

Against the Heresies

Re: Organ Donations

Ascension

Re: Organ Donations

Nadir

Re: Organ Donations

Ascension

Re: Organ Donations

2Vermont

Re: Organ Donations

Bonaventure

Re: Organ Donations

2Vermont

Re: Organ Donations

Ladislaus

Re: Organ Donations

Ladislaus

Re: Organ Donations

2Vermont

Re: Organ Donations

BOTHY

Re: Organ Donations