Author Topic: On seperating ourselves from "Worldlings" (Read 6835 times)

Cantarella · « **Reply #60 on:** August 24, 2013, 11:36:08 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Cantarella

Learn to justify your statements or don't make them. That's obviously too much for a woman.

Given that I am woman and therefore, unable to properly justify my statements, why do you bother yourself asking me to do it in the first place?

I am not deserving of your precious time, Telesphorus. Don't bother yourself with this woman.

Have a good day!

Telesphorus · « **Reply #61 on:** August 24, 2013, 11:40:34 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Given that I am woman and therefore, unable to properly justify my statements, why do you bother yourself asking me to do it in the first place?

Good question. Why bother to engage someone who doesn't care much if her statements are justified? She will just "humbly" say whatever she wants because it "feels" right?

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I am not deserving of your precious time, Telesphorus. Don't bother yourself with this woman.

lol, well we don't all deserve the good things we get, do we?

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Have a good day!

And you too. And please do resolve to shield your children from evil.

Thank you.

For Greater Glory · « **Reply #62 on:** August 27, 2013, 12:14:54 AM »

As a homeschooler of two of my children, I believe I can speak to this. When my son was twelve or thirteen, he met some worldlings from public school. Against my better judgment, my husband wanted him to take that road. Maybe if he hadn't, our son wouldn't be where he is today! They're like tomatoes in a greenhouse. They must develop good strong roots before they go out into the world. Tele is absolutely right!!!

Frances · « **Reply #63 on:** August 27, 2013, 02:47:20 AM »

:dancing-banana:Catholics have always had to live "in the world." What distinguished them from worldlings was being "not OF the world." As conditions in the formerly Catholic world worsen, it becomes harder and harder to do. Reason? Catholics want to continue to enjoy the world's perks and side-benefits while remaining Catholic. A look into the lives of the saints and into Catholics past and present who live in predominantly anti-Catholic circuмstances shows us how to it. The problem is two-fold. 1. We are in denial of reality. Our world is no longer Catholic.
2. We are selfish, addicted to material comforts so we don't WANT to make the sacrifices necessary to the salvation of our souls. Our minds are vincibly warped, therefore, our wills follow.

Tiffany · « **Reply #64 on:** August 27, 2013, 09:35:39 AM »

It's wild that those who live rural or plain are said to be isolated. Being at the home with plain families it AMAZED me how much in and out their was and how much they socialized with others! They spend time together having dinner, children playing, sometimes the men help one another with big projects, older women and unmarried young women go to houses with young mothers to clean and bake bread, other stop by with this and that, it's really silly to think they are isolated! That is besides the farm business and all the in and out for that!
Many have email but not regular internet. They have a family picture taken every year and mail out newsletter updates with their new pictures. They get lots of snail mail. Sunday at least one family is prepared to host visitors. It took me a while to be comfortable calling them and asking if we could come over but that is how they are. I STILL feel nervous doing it LOL!!! It's NOTHING like the the more "connected" folks. Seriously when was the last time most of us had dinner ten times with other families in the same calendar month? Five times? How many of us prepare on Sunday to invite visitors and singles at our chapel to our home or out to eat? These supposedly isolated folks who never use forums or FB are far more connected.

Tiffany · « **Reply #65 on:** August 27, 2013, 09:45:00 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

What I am saying is that the real protection comes from within. Comes from your soul. Comes from the understanding that this is a fallen world and our lives are in constant spiritual warfare. Our children need to be able to recognize our common Enemy and fight against it by not committing sins and remaining in state of grace. If this responsibility is not taught, the children will simply not learn how to deal with the world and will be consumed by it, one way or the other. They need to learn how to face the world and come out victorious. The victory is not in hiding. It is in recognizing the Evil one and fighting against it.

We are not to set up our children to sin and protect them (and ourselves) from occasions of sin. The idea that children will not know how to deal with the world because they are supposedly "too sheltered" is ridiculous. No matter how much we work to protect them and ourselves it is still a sinful world.

You are confusing teaching children not to be naive and setting up children to sin.

Cantarella · « **Reply #66 on:** August 27, 2013, 10:32:34 AM »

Quote from: Tiffany

Quote from: Cantarella

What I am saying is that the real protection comes from within. Comes from your soul. Comes from the understanding that this is a fallen world and our lives are in constant spiritual warfare. Our children need to be able to recognize our common Enemy and fight against it by not committing sins and remaining in state of grace. If this responsibility is not taught, the children will simply not learn how to deal with the world and will be consumed by it, one way or the other. They need to learn how to face the world and come out victorious. The victory is not in hiding. It is in recognizing the Evil one and fighting against it.

We are not to set up our children to sin and protect them (and ourselves) from occasions of sin. The idea that children will not know how to deal with the world because they are supposedly "too sheltered" is ridiculous. No matter how much we work to protect them and ourselves it is still a sinful world.

You are confusing teaching children not to be naive and setting up children to sin.

I never said we should "set up" our children to sin. Far from. I see once again, my words have been misunderstood. English is not my first language. It must be that my paragraph is written poorly or something since I am seriously being misunderstood and my words have been taken out of context.

You say: "No matter how much we work to protect them and ourselves it is still a sinful world". I say we must be prepared to recognize spiritual warfare and fight against sin and teach our children to do so. That's my whole point.

Tiffany · « **Reply #67 on:** August 27, 2013, 10:55:48 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: Telesphorus
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Our task as parents is not to shield our children from the evil forces that threaten them, as this is impossible,

Really? Do you have any authority for that statement?

Quote from: St. Alphonsus Liguori
"Thou art among unbelievers and destroyers, and thou dwellest among scorpions"--Ezech., ii. 6. Would you live in the midst of scorpions? You must then fly from scandalous friends, who, by their bad examples and words, poison your soul. "A man's enemies shall be they of his own household"--Matt., x. 36. Wicked friends that are very familiar and intimate to us, become the most pernicious enemies of our souls.

. . . .

Those of us who are parents have a particular obligation to make sure that our children do not have bad companions, and that we do not give them scandal by associating with those who are unrepentant sinners who are hostile to the truths of the Holy Faith. It is better for there to be a little estrangement, yes, even from parents and brothers and sisters and other relatives, in this passing, mortal vale of tears than an unhappy reunion with them in Hell for all eternity.

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but to form in the them the strength to combat evil effectively with all their hearts and throughout all their lives.

We must be realistic

We should listen to the Doctors of the Church and ignore the unbelievers and destroyers who live among scorpions.

You have, once again, misunderstood my statement, Telesphorus.

Pay attention: I am not saying that we should send our children to public schools, or allow them to participate in secular activities, or not being ever-vigilant of their companions. Of course, it is our duty to protect our children from worldly influences as much as we can and try to educate them in a holy environment, especially through our own example and dedication.

What I am saying is that the real protection comes from within. Comes from your soul. Comes from the understanding that this is a fallen world and our lives are in constant spiritual warfare. Our children need to be able to recognize our common Enemy and fight against it by not committing sins and remaining in state of grace. If this responsibility is not taught, the children will simply not learn how to deal with the world and will be consumed by it, one way or the other. They need to learn how to face the world and come out victorious. The victory is not in hiding. It is in recognizing the Evil one and fighting against it.

You simply cannot go and live in a bubble on in your mother's basement all your life. Or at least, this is NOT the future I'd like for my children.

Do not ask me what is my authority on this matter. I am simply stating my humble opinion in this forum. I am a mother and these issues are of great concern for me. I don't need to be "proving" my knowledge in here by citing quotes of Saints and Popes.

However, is it my understanding that you don't even have children?

Second language or not this is clearly against the idea of keeping children from evil environments.

Cantarella · « **Reply #68 on:** August 27, 2013, 11:16:33 AM »

No. It is not. It's about preparing our children to deal with these evil environments, which they will eventually encounter regardless of how protective a parent you have been. Even if you do end up living in your mother's basement, you are not exent from sin.

I homeschool my children, I protect them from worldly influences, there is no even a tv in my house, I am ever vigilant of their companions and their surroundings, i supervise eberything they see and hear, but even so, I am not naive. I know that if I don't teach them how to say NO to sin once the opportunity arises, because it will arise, then I'm failing.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #69 on:** August 27, 2013, 11:59:12 AM »

If your child possesses a rancid soul, there's not much you can do to keep them from a sinful life because even if you locked them in the basemend, their very own heart would be filled with hate.

Julie10 · « **Reply #70 on:** August 27, 2013, 02:16:56 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Deliberately embracing the world is unnecessarily placing the salvation of your children and yourself in danger. It's a spiritual danger that should never be embraced with a laugh or on a dare or as a lark.

Let's not forget that these are not ordinary times though. The novus ordo vatican wants us to embrace the world and be the yeast in its bread. That's a good way to completely neutralize yourself. And in today's world, the public schools are spiritually superior to the novus ordo schools.

Ggreg has a lot of good advice but I think I'd rather have my children struggle with finding a job than be cast into the fires of Hell because they embraced the world so completely that they became one with the world.

Trad Catholics can always grow up to be entrepreneurs - large scale or small.

They can be good entrepreneurs but entrepreneurs must have strong social skills because who do you think your clients are? You would starve if you only served trads.

Social isolation can be very romanticized when considering the options. I think you have to realistic. I think you need a strong inner circle (family) but you are going to have some questionable people in your life. Think about the neighbor who invites you over for a BBQ. Are you not going to be friends with them when they are next door? I mean you might need them in a emergency. Everyone also has a relative or two that has poor choices. God still loves them and desires them to come to him. Are you going to stop talking to them or would it be better to keep them close to you in an effort to help them.

This is a good topic for debate because it is one I find myself confused on. I went to public school and I found the friends who went to catholic school were worse because they rebelled and they were surrounded by other people who only went to catholic school as a status thing. I would not send my child to public school now though however our schools are good at teaching trades that would come in handy that I can't teach them (carpentry, etc.)

I would love to homeschool my children and that is my goal but I worry about them not being thick skinned enough. I could care less if they don't learn how "to socialize" with other people because why would I want them to be like other people. I just feel that you can't isolate yourself so much or we become like the native Americans who can't function off the reservations because they only know "their" culture. I guess that is where you make "socializations" part of the curriculum of home schooling and you can select the environment.
Ideally you have to learn to live in this world (because that is where God put us) but desire not for it. You have to train your will of desire. Enter the Holy Ghost.

The whole thing is a mess.

Stubborn · « **Reply #71 on:** August 27, 2013, 05:58:57 PM »

Quote from: Julie10

I would love to homeschool my children and that is my goal but I worry about them not being thick skinned enough. I could care less if they don't learn how "to socialize" with other people because why would I want them to be like other people. I just feel that you can't isolate yourself so much or we become like the native Americans who can't function off the reservations because they only know "their" culture. I guess that is where you make "socializations" part of the curriculum of home schooling and you can select the environment.
Ideally you have to learn to live in this world (because that is where God put us) but desire not for it. You have to train your will of desire. Enter the Holy Ghost.

The whole thing is a mess.

When children are sheltered in order to be raised in the faith, they *will* be different than the rest of the world because their upbringing should make them that way - but by the time they go out into the world, their spiritual suit of armor (which you helped build and fit), should be so thick that they can enter into their trials with a certain degree of confidence that the providence of Our Lord will help them in whatever endevour they pursue.

No matter what, the temptations will visit them to get them to remove the suit from themselves, if they keep their armor on, it'll only make the suit even stronger, if they remove it, they do so of their own free will and except for prayer, there is nothing you can do about it - but make no mistake, if they were the typical child, they have no real worries about socializing.

From the few "sheltered trads" that I have delt with career wise, they are usually among the pick of the crop, well mannered, polite, have a good sense of humor, dependable, often display a noticeable respect for authority, are quick learners and etc. and socialize as well as anyone.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #72 on:** August 27, 2013, 06:08:44 PM »

Let's not use the phraseology of our enemies.

"Isolated"

"sheltered"

No, we must refrain from using these words.

Catholics are to remain aloof from the world - it's only unusual now because most of the Catholic world has abandoned the faith.

A Traditional Catholic guy who went into construction would build whatever the paying customer wanted him to. This doesn't require being one with the other. All other skill sets are compatible.

Homeschooling? If you want to, you would first have to move out of that house that is probably above your means - no offense intended but many worldlings buy a house that they can "barely afford" if everything else "goes according to plans". You would be perfectly happy in a much smaller ranch house or even a manufactured home.

If you moved to a trailor house, could you afford to home school? Modest homes can be Catholic treasures too!

Frances · « **Reply #73 on:** August 27, 2013, 07:00:10 PM »

:drillsergeant: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat: :ready-to-eat::ready-to-eat::dancing-banana: :geezer:
In 1981 I helped a family of 16 move OUT of a trailer home. There were 13 children, the youngest two weeks old, and Grandpa. The notion of even attempting to home school is ludicrous. They moved into a two story home with four bedrooms. It seemed like a palace in comparison.