Author Topic: On Hopes and Desires  (Read 1495 times)

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Offline Jimbo9889

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On Hopes and Desires
« on: November 06, 2012, 10:30:45 AM »
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  • Okay so after a long time sitting down a trying to filter through the things I long for and what I thought I longed for I finally came to the conclusion that there are 6 Hopes that I truly long for, they are broken up and organized in the following manner:

    1) Spiritual Hopes

    - Growing in Deeper Awareness and Love of God: In - With - Through Christ
    - Integration of Catholic Teaching into all aspects of Life


    2) Psychosocial Hopes

    - Consummate Love/Marriage
    - Uplifting Social Network Around Me with Catholic Teaching in Mind


    3) Physical Hopes

    - Prosperous under God's Providence
    - God Would Safeguard My Health Throughout my Life

    Now I am not really here to ask for a confirmation of whether or not these Hopes/Desires/Longings are of Good Report, I have spent a long time discerning this however, if you wish to confirm or rebut I will take it into account.

    The reason I came to post was simply to ask, [if you confirm the right-ness of these Hopes/Desires/Longings] in what manner do you think these things ought to be worked on and attained? I would feel that The Spiritual Hopes would come first before the others because it seems to be something that gives credence to what Christ said to the devil during his 3 Temptations: "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on the Bread of God's Word."

    I kind of pictured in my mind that this would look like an inverted pyramid where the tip of the pyramid points down but is what comes first (Applied Spiritual Hopes) and then widens as it gets to the top (Applied Psychosocial Hopes up to Applied Physical Hopes). To me it kind of represents like the core things I do and then as we get closer to the top of the inverted pyramid I would find that these outer hopes come about Spontaneously as well.

    The Tip of the Pyramid typically points up which is to represent the higher and more sublime things, but first the lower and more base things need to be met before these higher things are met, but with Christ in Christianity it seems that this arrangement is flipped on its head, especially testified in the life of the Christian Mystics, specifically the Desert Fathers.

    What do you think? I believe we need to know God since we part of our fallen situation means we know creation better than the Creator, so by knowing and loving the Creator and following Him I believe then all other Hopes/Desires/Longings would come more spontaneously.

    Offline Marlelar

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    On Hopes and Desires
    « Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 04:17:49 PM »
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  • Or perhaps the spiritual aspects should be on the wide base at the bottom since it is the foundation of our lives?  The other aspects would be smaller.  For me I would put the social layer next and the physical layer at the top, but that is a purely personal choice.

    Marsha


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    On Hopes and Desires
    « Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 12:01:22 AM »
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  • What do I think, Jimbo?

    You should pray the rosary daily.  If you don't, then buy a rosary online somewhere (there are lots of websites), then take it to a traditional priest and have it blessed.  

    Buy a couple books on the Rosary.  Read them one chapter at a time and pace yourself.

    Pray the Holy Rosary.  

    You can start small and just pray one decade per day and build up to a five decade Rosary.  

    Your list of wants, you will find, are simply you expressing your desires.  Your desires will change, transform, mutate as your mind, body and soul prays obediently to God.  This is why I recommend the Holy Rosary.  It's Our Lady's Psalter and by praying the Rosary, you will be guided and you will be instructed and you will be purified and tamed.  

    Or you will put it down and run away.  I'm not trying to be sensationalist, but praying the Holy Rosary will cause a lot of awkward emotions to people who, I know this sounds uncharitably, don't really love God.  Pick up the Rosary slowly and pray at least one decade per day.  It's true that there are some Saints in Catholic history who struggled with the Holy Rosary, and there are Saints pre-St Dominic in 1214 who never had the blessings of being in a world that possessed such a great treasure as the Holy Rosary.  

    After you've spent several weeks praying one decade of the Holy Rosary, then see a traditional priest about a General Confession.  

    Spend a week or so preparing yourself for the General Confession. Praying a small portion of the Rosary daily will prepare your soul for confession.  

    After the General Confession, start praying at least two decades of the Holy Rosary.  Over a period of several weeks or months, you can grow to a daily Rosary.  I think you could try jumpstarting the Rosary in it's completeness now but that may be precocious and detrimental to growth.  

    Spiritual growth is a progression.  You may be an extremely bright guy, but that's just mental acuity, a gift to be enjoyed and used in this world.  Your spiritual growth will be something much richer for you.  

    Buy St. Francis de Sales' book "The Introduction to the Devout Life" from Tan Book Co. and read it, a couple chapters at a time.  Ponder the advice he gives in this book.  

    Good luck and God Bless!

     :pray:

    Offline Devonshire

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    On Hopes and Desires
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2012, 07:56:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    What do I think, Jimbo?

    You should pray the rosary daily.  If you don't, then buy a rosary online somewhere (there are lots of websites), then take it to a traditional priest and have it blessed.  

    Buy a couple books on the Rosary.  Read them one chapter at a time and pace yourself.

    Pray the Holy Rosary.  

    You can start small and just pray one decade per day and build up to a five decade Rosary.  

    Your list of wants, you will find, are simply you expressing your desires.  Your desires will change, transform, mutate as your mind, body and soul prays obediently to God.  This is why I recommend the Holy Rosary.  It's Our Lady's Psalter and by praying the Rosary, you will be guided and you will be instructed and you will be purified and tamed.  

    Or you will put it down and run away.  I'm not trying to be sensationalist, but praying the Holy Rosary will cause a lot of awkward emotions to people who, I know this sounds uncharitably, don't really love God.  Pick up the Rosary slowly and pray at least one decade per day.  It's true that there are some Saints in Catholic history who struggled with the Holy Rosary, and there are Saints pre-St Dominic in 1214 who never had the blessings of being in a world that possessed such a great treasure as the Holy Rosary.  

    After you've spent several weeks praying one decade of the Holy Rosary, then see a traditional priest about a General Confession.  

    Spend a week or so preparing yourself for the General Confession. Praying a small portion of the Rosary daily will prepare your soul for confession.  

    After the General Confession, start praying at least two decades of the Holy Rosary.  Over a period of several weeks or months, you can grow to a daily Rosary.  I think you could try jumpstarting the Rosary in it's completeness now but that may be precocious and detrimental to growth.  

    Spiritual growth is a progression.  You may be an extremely bright guy, but that's just mental acuity, a gift to be enjoyed and used in this world.  Your spiritual growth will be something much richer for you.  

    Buy St. Francis de Sales' book "The Introduction to the Devout Life" from Tan Book Co. and read it, a couple chapters at a time.  Ponder the advice he gives in this book.  

    Good luck and God Bless!

     :pray:


    Thank you for this, Capt McQuigg. This is an excellent reminder for anyone who is just starting out. It can be very overwhelming when one sees how much spiritual progress remains ahead. I have struggled with the rosary myself, trying to "jumpstart" it as you said. It HAS been detrimental to my growth. I think I'll try what you suggest and work gragually towards a full daily rosary.


    "I have chosen to be an abject in the house of my God, rather than to dwell in the tabernacles of sinners." Psalms Ch. LXXXIII, v. 11

    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2012, 11:03:07 PM »
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  • Jimbo, I was wondering about your omitting mention of God's Will for you? Your Spiritual Hopes would accomodate this but what about your Psychosocial and Physical Hopes?
     


    Offline Jimbo9889

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    On Hopes and Desires
    « Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 02:19:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    Jimbo, I was wondering about your omitting mention of God's Will for you? Your Spiritual Hopes would accomodate this but what about your Psychosocial and Physical Hopes?
     


    I see the human person as a whole person, the Psychosocial and Physical Hopes are secondary, so that if they should come they would come from the Eternal Ground of God's Providence and Wisdom rather than merely my own striving for them.

    Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    What do I think, Jimbo?

    You should pray the rosary daily.  If you don't, then buy a rosary online somewhere (there are lots of websites), then take it to a traditional priest and have it blessed.

    Buy a couple books on the Rosary.  Read them one chapter at a time and pace yourself.

    Pray the Holy Rosary.

    You can start small and just pray one decade per day and build up to a five decade Rosary.

    Your list of wants, you will find, are simply you expressing your desires.  Your desires will change, transform, mutate as your mind, body and soul prays obediently to God.  This is why I recommend the Holy Rosary.  It's Our Lady's Psalter and by praying the Rosary, you will be guided and you will be instructed and you will be purified and tamed.

    Or you will put it down and run away.  I'm not trying to be sensationalist, but praying the Holy Rosary will cause a lot of awkward emotions to people who, I know this sounds uncharitably, don't really love God.  Pick up the Rosary slowly and pray at least one decade per day.  It's true that there are some Saints in Catholic history who struggled with the Holy Rosary, and there are Saints pre-St Dominic in 1214 who never had the blessings of being in a world that possessed such a great treasure as the Holy Rosary.

    After you've spent several weeks praying one decade of the Holy Rosary, then see a traditional priest about a General Confession.

    Spend a week or so preparing yourself for the General Confession. Praying a small portion of the Rosary daily will prepare your soul for confession.

    After the General Confession, start praying at least two decades of the Holy Rosary.  Over a period of several weeks or months, you can grow to a daily Rosary.  I think you could try jumpstarting the Rosary in it's completeness now but that may be precocious and detrimental to growth.

    Spiritual growth is a progression.  You may be an extremely bright guy, but that's just mental acuity, a gift to be enjoyed and used in this world.  Your spiritual growth will be something much richer for you.

    Buy St. Francis de Sales' book "The Introduction to the Devout Life" from Tan Book Co. and read it, a couple chapters at a time.  Ponder the advice he gives in this book.

    Good luck and God Bless!


    So I took your advice into consideration, (1) I am buying, "The Introduction to the Devout Life" before the year is done, among other Catholic Intellectual, Mystical, and Devotional Texts. (2) In the month of November I spent 3 Weeks trying to figure out God's Will for me upon meditating on the 15 Traditional Mysteries of the Holy Rosary and then wrote down where I see it acting now and how I could address or enhance its practice in the future. I must of wrote down about 20 Pages worth actions I could be doing, and which I have and will continue working on in this New Liturgical Year. (3) I've been Going to Confession on a bi-weekly basis, Receiving Holy Communion in the State of Grace, and practicing varying Devotionals and Contemplations for about 9 Months since my formal reversion back to the Church back in March of this Year: Figuring 3 Months for each Person of the Blessed Trinity.

    Offline shin

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    « Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 03:55:33 PM »
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  • Introduction to the Devout Life should be a great help!

    If you daily read the saints you will very much help yourself! :)
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline ancien regime

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    « Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »
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  • In addition to this, I would heartily recommend that you purchase a copy of St. Louis de Monfort's True Devotion to Mary (from TAN books) and approach it in the same manner, i.e. read it a little at a time. Then consecrate yourself to Mary as outlined in the book. (It helps to purchase Fr. Helmuts Libietis' book Consecration to Mary (Angelus Press) which contains in one source the entire four week process.)

    Then, after doing this and regularly praying the Rosary, if you really want to advance, buy a copy of The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary (available from St. Bonaventure Publications) and start praying the Little Office.

    Once you have consecrated yourself to Mary, I guarantee that your spiritual life will never be the same. She will be the one driving the bus and all your spiritual needs will be answered by her. If you are supposed to join a Third Order, she will provide the right one and the means for you to do so.

    I speak as one who knows.


    Offline cjr

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    « Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 05:53:08 PM »
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  • I applaud you on your effort and diligent work.  Be an overachiever &  strive to pray all 15 decades of the Holy Rosary everyday of your life.


    Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucia told Father Fuentes in a famous 1957 interview:
     "Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Holy Rosary. She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls."


    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    « Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 06:53:13 PM »
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  • Nadir, you took the words right out of my mouth.
    Jimbo, bravo for your holy introspection, which is a tremendous attribute for examining conscience.

    Quote
    Abandonment to Divine Providence
    Taken from Providence by  Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange


    Why should we abandon ourselves to Divine Providence? The answer of every Christian will be that the reason lies in the wisdom and goodness of Providence. This is very true; nevertheless, if we are to have a proper understanding of the subject, if we are to avoid the error of the Quietists in renouncing more or less the virtue of hope and the struggle necessary for salvation, if we are to avoid also the other extreme of disquiet, precipitation, and a feverish, fruitless agitation, it is expedient for us to lay down four principles already somewhat accessible to natural reason and clearly set forth in revelation as found in Scripture. These principles underlying the true doctrine of self-abandonment also bring out the motive inspiring it.

    The first of these principles is that everything which comes to pass has been foreseen by God from all eternity, and has been willed or at least permitted by Him.
    Nothing comes to pass either in the material or in the spiritual world, but God has foreseen it from all eternity; because with Him there is no passing from ignorance to knowledge as with us, and He has nothing to learn from events as they occur. Not only has God foreseen everything that is happening now or will happen in the future, but whatever reality and goodness there is in these things He has willed; and whatever evil or moral disorder is in them, He has merely permitted. Holy Scripture is explicit on this point, and, as the Councils have declared, no room is left for doubt in the matter.

    The second principle is that nothing can be willed or permitted by God that does not contribute to the end He purposed in creating, which is the manifestation of His goodness and infinite perfections, and the glory of the God-man Jesus Christ, His only Son. As St. Paul says, “All are yours. And you are Christ's. And Christ is God's.” (I Cor. 2: 23).
    In addition to these two principles, there is a third, which St. Paul states thus: “We know that to them that love God all things work together unto good: to such as, according to His purpose, are called to be saints”. (Rom. 8: 28), and persevere in His love. God sees to it that everything contributes to their spiritual welfare, not only the grace He bestows on them, not only those natural qualities He endows them with, but sickness too, and contradictions and reverses; as St. Augustine tells us, even their very sins, which God only permits in order to lead them on to a truer humility and thereby to a purer love. It was thus He permitted the threefold denial of St. Peter, to make the great Apostle more humble, more mistrustful of self, and by this very means become stronger and trust more in the Divine Mercy.

    These first three principles may therefore be summed up in this way; Nothing comes to pass but God has foreseen it, willed it or at least permitted it. He wills nothing, permits nothing, unless for the manifestation of His goodness and infinite perfections, for the glory of His Son, and the welfare of those that love Him. In view of these three principles, it is evident that our trust in Providence cannot be too childlike, too steadfast. Indeed, we may go further and say that this trust in Providence should be blind as is our faith, the object of which is those mysteries that are non-evident and unseen (fides est de non visis) for we are certain beforehand that Providence is directing all things infallibly to a good purpose, and we are more convinced of the rectitude of His designs than we are of the best of our own intentions. Therefore, in abandoning ourselves to God, all we have to fear is that our submission will not be wholehearted enough.

    In view of Quietism, however, this last sentence obliges us to lay down a fourth principle no less certain than the principles that have preceded. The principle is, that obviously self-abandonment does not dispense us from doing everything in our power to fulfill God's will as made known in the Commandments and counsels, and in the events of life; but so long as we have the sincere desire to carry out His will thus made known from day to day, we can and indeed we must abandon ourselves for the rest to the Divine Will of good pleasure, no matter how mysterious it may be, and thus avoid a useless disquiet and mere agitation.
    This fourth principle is expressed in equivalent terms by the Council of Trent (Sess. VI, cap. 13), when it declares that we must all have firm hope in God's assistance and put our trust in Him, being careful at the same time to keep His commandments. As the well-known proverb has it: “Do what you ought, come what may.”

    All theologians explain what is meant by the Divine Will as expressed: expressed, that is, in the Commandments, in the spirit underlying the counsels, and in the events of life. They add that, while conforming ourselves to His expressed will, we must abandon ourselves to His Divine Will of good pleasure, however mysterious it may be, for we are certain beforehand that in its holiness it wills nothing, permits nothing, unless for a good purpose.

    We must take special note here of these words in the Gospel of St. Luke “He that is faithful in that which is 1east is faithfu1 also in that which is greater.” (16: 10). If every day we do what we can to be faithful to God in the ordinary routine of life, we may be confident that He will give us grace to remain faithful in whatever extremity we may find ourselves through His permission; and if we have to suffer for Him, He will give us the grace to die a heroic death rather than be ashamed of Him and betray Him.

    These are the principles underlying the doctrine of trusting self-abandonment. Accepted as they are by all theologians, they express what is of Christian faith in this matter. The golden mean is thus above and between the two errors mentioned at the beginning of this section. By constant fidelity to duty, we avoid the false and idle repose of the. Quietist, and on the other hand by a trustful self-abandonment we are saved from a useless disquiet and a fruitless agitation. Self abandonment would be sloth did it not presuppose this daily fidelity, which indeed is a sort of springboard from which we may safely launch ourselves into the unknown. Daily fidelity to the Divine Will as expressed gives us a sort of right to abandon ourselves completely to the Divine Will of of good pleasure as yet not made known to us.

    A faithful soul will often recall to mind these words of our Lord: “My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me”(John 4: 34). The soul finds its constant nourishment in the divine will as expressed, abandoning itself to the Divine Will as yet not made known, much as a swimmer supports himself on the passing wave and surrenders himself to the oncoming wave, to that ocean that might engulf him but that actually sustains him. So the soul must strike out toward the open sea, into the infinite ocean of being, says St. John Damascence, borne up by the Divine Will as made known there and then and abandoning itself to that divine will upon which all successive moments of the future depend. The future is with God, future events are in His hands. If the merchants to whom Joseph was sold by his brethren had passed by one hour sooner, he would not have gone into Egypt, and the whole course of his life would have been changed. Our lives also are dependent on events controlled by God. Daily fidelity and trusting abandonment thus give the spiritual life its balance, its stability and harmony. In this way we live our lives in almost continuous recollection, in an ever-increasing self-abnegation, and these are the conditions normally requited for contemplation and union with God. This, then, is the reason why our life should be one of self-abandonment to the Divine Will as yet unknown to us and at the same time supported every moment by that will as already made known to us.


    I wholeheartedly agree with ancien regime's recommendation.  That great saint single handedly brought me to a deep, rich, abiding love of the Mother of our Savior.  I thank him everyday for that precious gift.

    I look forward to your further contributions on the forum!

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 07:27:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    What do I think, Jimbo?

    You should pray the rosary daily.  If you don't, then buy a rosary online somewhere (there are lots of websites), then take it to a traditional priest and have it blessed.  

    Buy a couple books on the Rosary.  Read them one chapter at a time and pace yourself.

    Pray the Holy Rosary.  

    You can start small and just pray one decade per day and build up to a five decade Rosary.  

    Your list of wants, you will find, are simply you expressing your desires.  Your desires will change, transform, mutate as your mind, body and soul prays obediently to God.  This is why I recommend the Holy Rosary.  It's Our Lady's Psalter and by praying the Rosary, you will be guided and you will be instructed and you will be purified and tamed.  

    Or you will put it down and run away.  I'm not trying to be sensationalist, but praying the Holy Rosary will cause a lot of awkward emotions to people who, I know this sounds uncharitably, don't really love God.  Pick up the Rosary slowly and pray at least one decade per day.  It's true that there are some Saints in Catholic history who struggled with the Holy Rosary, and there are Saints pre-St Dominic in 1214 who never had the blessings of being in a world that possessed such a great treasure as the Holy Rosary.  

    After you've spent several weeks praying one decade of the Holy Rosary, then see a traditional priest about a General Confession.  

    Spend a week or so preparing yourself for the General Confession. Praying a small portion of the Rosary daily will prepare your soul for confession.  

    After the General Confession, start praying at least two decades of the Holy Rosary.  Over a period of several weeks or months, you can grow to a daily Rosary.  I think you could try jumpstarting the Rosary in it's completeness now but that may be precocious and detrimental to growth.  

    Spiritual growth is a progression.  You may be an extremely bright guy, but that's just mental acuity, a gift to be enjoyed and used in this world.  Your spiritual growth will be something much richer for you.  

    Buy St. Francis de Sales' book "The Introduction to the Devout Life" from Tan Book Co. and read it, a couple chapters at a time.  Ponder the advice he gives in this book.  

    Good luck and God Bless!

     :pray:


    You really can't go wrong recommending the Rosary and St. Francis de Sales.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


     

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