Author Topic: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism (Read 9567 times)

Simeon · « **Reply #85 on:** June 04, 2026, 06:38:16 PM »

Quote from: Lazarus on June 04, 2026, 06:34:59 PM

I do often read St Thomas Aquinas' writings regarding moral theology -in fact he is one of my favourite Saints and I regularly ask for his intercession- but I don't understand why you ask me this question.

I'll share this prayer for those who don't know of it already, because it is quite beautiful. Before reading Scripture, or before reading any kind of theological or philosophical work :

Creator of all things,
true Source of light and wisdom,
lofty origin of all being,
graciously let a ray of Your brilliance
penetrate into the darkness of my understanding
and take from me the double darkness
in which I have been born,
an obscurity of both sin and ignorance.
Give me a sharp sense of understanding,
a retentive memory,
and the ability to grasp things correctly and fundamentally.
Grant me the talent of being exact in my explanations,
and the ability to express myself with thoroughness and charm.
Point out the beginning,
direct the progress,
and help in completion;
through Christ our Lord.

Amen.

Well, of course St Thomas is extremely important. St Pius X is one of the greatest Popes we ever had and he loved Saint Thomas' work.

Hating Saint Thomas is one of the very obvious signs of being a heretic.

You may already understand why I asked you the question. At least part of the answer is in the last sentence of your post.

Thanks for your post and the prayer! Happy Feast of Corpus Christi! I drove a very long way today so I could assist at Mass. So glad I did! Today's Mass and Office were entirely written by St. Thomas!

St. Thomas, pray for us!

icarlytradcath · « **Reply #86 on:** June 04, 2026, 07:15:38 PM »

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I see that you have come here brimming with energy, with purpose, and with an agenda. I do not use the term agenda to denote something pernicious or occult. Only that I see clearly you have something preplanned that you wish to disseminate.

I thank you for the project you started on the Concordantiae thread. I will take a look at it.

If I may ask, are you a scholar of the Medieval Period? Would I be reasonable in asking you for some credentials - not your personal identity - but your education and affiliations? You mentioned that you will be translating from the Latin some of the works you wish to showcase. That is not a common skill. Couple it with your zeal in posting here, and I cannot help but be curious about your formation. Pax.

Yes, I am an energetic and passionate young man, at first I just tried to dispel in my opinion false notions of certain trads and the re-enchantment movement but then yes the thread moved into an opportunity to talk about and disseminate the medieval neo-platonic worldview.

My agenda is this if you want to call it that: I would be happy if even one lurker came away from my posts closer to the worldview where the world is a colorful, rich poem from God, and that they can see Christ and themselves in every flower and tree and archetype. That they can learn with their children what their chickens do and are like and see in every part of it the Divine Hen who wanted to gather Jerusalem. And in general get closer in spirit to the High Middle Ages than to modernity.

You can dislike the terminology as you stated above but everyone knows what it's getting at, ErwinRansom explained it beautifully, we live in a disenchanted world, the medievals lived in an enchanted world. The world itself is mostly the same, is how you look at it and interact with it.

I actually think we agree on almost everything. Is your big criticism that I'm conflating sciences and theologys based on Aquinas? I think you're misunderstanding Aquinas, to be honest.

To your latter question, you would be very unreasonable, I translate with AI, and do minor tweaks to awkward sentence structure, OCR errors and other such things. Anyone can look at the thread and judge if I'm leading people astray or just sharing a serviceable translation of a beautiful text.

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You are making one of my points here.

Gnostics, Arians, and other cabalist's have had 2000 years to perfect methods of tampering with sacred knowledge, and even with natural knowledge. They are deft at weaving together fabrics made from threads of truth and threads of myth. Add to this ages-long problem the curse of Vatican II and the current accelerated propagation of magical arts in society at large. Anyone who is not careful, and not properly trained, is in danger of falling into horrible errors.

Yes indeed, nature provides ample material for exposition of doctrine by way of symbolism and analogy. Yes, indeed, the Scriptures and the Writings of the Sacred Doctors teem with examples, as I said above in one of my posts. But this fact does not exist in a vacuum. Nor does it give people who lack proper training and authority leave to explore unauthorized works and disseminate ideas without express permission from the ecclesiastical authorities.

Let's not forget that the Church, throughout Her history, has severely restricted the publication of unauthorized works, and zealously guarded the faithful from exposure to them. This is the mind of the Church.

The hierarchy has been smashed, and we all boil in a cauldron of unrestrained license. All the more reason then to be sober in our enthusiasms.

That you employed the word "sucks" in your reply, makes me think that you are not formally trained, that you are young, and that you may have grown up in a household that was not devoutly Catholic.

I beseech you to disabuse me of any errors I have committed with regard to your character. I'm very much trying to get a sense of you.

I don't see what the point is, you're talking about Tarot? About me posting on this forum?

And regarding the latter lines, I don't know "what your deal is" or "where you get off", as the Americans are fond of saying.

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You here demonstrate that you have entirely failed to grasp my arguments, in toto. Or, if you did grasp them, you are misrepresenting and mischaracterizing them, in order to ignore the truth they contain.

You are strawmanning me, as did another on this thread.

Once again I detect obfuscation in your writing.

A person warns against the imprudent and dangerous use of unauthorized sources for Christian meditation and study, precisely because of the dangers of intellectual error and demonic influence. There is categorically no possible contradiction of this principle, as it is the very principle of Holy Mother the Church in all Her dealings with the prolix outpourings of countless heretics. And so, in order to distract from this true principle, you falsely characterize the objection as pious harping and objectivizing subjective preferences.

Poppycock and balderdash.

And I have another intuition about you that I would like you to disabuse me of if I am incorrect; namely that you have already posted on this thread as another identity.

Yes, I have changed my username since I didn't like the last one, every post from my last user says in the signature that my new account is this one.

I could write your arguments steelmanned and respond to each one but honestly I think nobody'll blame me if I just match your attitude in every message you've sent and simply say that they're

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Poppycock and balderdash.

Simeon · « **Reply #87 on:** June 04, 2026, 07:35:31 PM »

Quote from: icarlytradcath on June 04, 2026, 07:15:38 PM

Yes, I am an energetic and passionate young man, at first I just tried to dispel in my opinion false notions of certain trads and the re-enchantment movement but then yes the thread moved into an opportunity to talk about and disseminate the medieval neo-platonic worldview.

My agenda is this if you want to call it that: I would be happy if even one lurker came away from my posts closer to the worldview where the world is a colorful, rich poem from God, and that they can see Christ and themselves in every flower and tree and archetype. That they can learn with their children what their chickens do and are like and see in every part of it the Divine Hen who wanted to gather Jerusalem. And in general get closer in spirit to the High Middle Ages than to modernity.

You can dislike the terminology as you stated above but everyone knows what it's getting at, ErwinRansom explained it beautifully, we live in a disenchanted world, the medievals lived in an enchanted world. The world itself is mostly the same, is how you look at it and interact with it.

I actually think we agree on almost everything. Is your big criticism that I'm conflating sciences and theologys based on Aquinas? I think you're misunderstanding Aquinas, to be honest.

To your latter question, you would be very unreasonable, I translate with AI, and do minor tweaks to awkward sentence structure, OCR errors and other such things. Anyone can look at the thread and judge if I'm leading people astray or just sharing a serviceable translation of a beautiful text.

I don't see what the point is, you're talking about Tarot? About me posting on this forum?

And regarding the latter lines, I don't know "what your deal is" or "where you get off", as the Americans are fond of saying.

Yes, I have changed my username since I didn't like the last one, every post from my last user says in the signature that my new account is this one.

I could write your arguments steelmanned and respond to each one but honestly I think nobody'll blame me if I just match your attitude in every message you've sent and simply say that they're

Thanks for answering my questions.

And yes, I agree with you! I am full of poppycock and balderdash!

God bless and protect you!

icarlytradcath · « **Reply #88 on:** June 04, 2026, 08:11:03 PM »

I'll clarify the Aquinas point.

Aquinas basically says this:

From nature and reason you can deduce things like: God is one, God is infinite, God is almighty, etc.

From nature and reason you can't deduce things like: God is three persons in one essence, God became incarnate in Palestine from a virgin, He was crucified and resurrected three days later, etc.

This has nothing to do with anything we're talking about. I find this especially odd and telling of what the error is

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LOTR belongs entirely to the natural order. It is attractive to human nature, perhaps even to the law written by God on the heart. Its metaphors and allegories do not extend to the supernatural order, no matter how many people insist otherwise.

Aquinas is saying you couldn't prove the incarnation through Tolkien, that's it.
I'm not trying to mischaracterize your argument believe me but you seem to be making the point that since Tolkien is a human author writing a human book he can't make analogies, metaphors and allegories touching and giving a certain insight on supernatural topics? That's not what Aquinas says at all. Under that logic the Voyage of the Pax or any similar book would also be solely natural and not extend to the supernatural order.

Or for that matter he's also saying you couldn't prove the Trinity from the Meeting of Abraham and the Three Angels, but once you know about the Trinity you can see it symbolized. Medievals also did this to secular history and the natural world. They obviously knew you couldn't be a pagan and deduce the betrayal of the God incarnate or his Resurrection from Julius Caesar or the Phoenix, but once a pagan knew about these things from a priest he could very easily see it.

But anyway that's it I think you just misunderstood what that whole article of the Summa was about.

Also for the record I don't like you, you've insulted me, snarkily condemned me to hell, tried to psychoanalize me, and talked in an affected and condescending way. we wouldn't get along in real life most likely and I think you should think about the way you conduct yourself online.

But of course I return your last message's sentiment, idk it was sarcasm or in earnest, but at the end of the day this is just an internet forum we're both just random people talking about stuff. I pray that you have a holy and happy life and God blesses you and keeps you <3

Lazarus · « **Reply #89 on:** June 04, 2026, 08:38:54 PM »

Quote from: LightOfBethlehem3 on May 08, 2026, 01:55:53 PM

Okay then we just disagree, I do see spiritual meaning in animals and every created thing. You don't. And that's perfectly fine. But back to the thread title surely you recognize this is not at all "occult" or "satanic" it's just a more medieval cosmology?

I've seen this sentiment echoed a few times in this thread of "If there's the Bible and Tradition, why spend any time on all this? Are they bored and itching for novelty" And I don't know I see it as kind of convoluted. As the famous phrase goes "It's not an either/or, it's a both/and".

Can not a pious Catholic read both the Bible, Kempis, Shakespeare and the Book of Nature without "being bored of God", rather, seeing God present in all of it and talking with Him about it?

Also "shouldn't we consider looking to Him who was/is the creator, rather than look for meaning in the created? Just my opinion.", then why have an elaborate liturgy that engages all senses? Because God wants us to use created things, we are created beings. IMHO "Reading" a horse is not worshipping a horse, it's reading the "Horse Letter" written by God to us.

I agree with you. Listening to the songs of birds and observing their behaviour has only increased my devoutness and my wonder towards the Creation.

However, do take into account that truth can be used for a perverse purpose. The "truths" in a pagan doctrine or in another false religion are used in order to support immorality and false teachings. The truth is perverted and serves as an authority to claim that the perverted teachings must also be true.
As an example, Islam does teach the ten commandments, but then they teach polygamy and other immoral behaviour. For many people, reading such material can be dangerous and corrupt their faith, because they do not carefully discern what is good and what is bad.
As an example, pagans see the wonders of nature, rivers, stars and so on and they worship those as if they were gods committing the sin of idolatry.

The dangerousness of false doctrines is precisely that they have some truths in them. If Satan lied all the time, no one would ever believe his words. But when he masterfully weaves truths and lies, beauty and immondice, it is difficult to not stumble and fall.

That is why reading anything without caution can be dangerous to the soul. That is the reason the Index was created.

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Author Topic: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism (Read 9567 times)

Simeon

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism

icarlytradcath

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism

Simeon

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icarlytradcath

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Lazarus

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