Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism  (Read 1870 times)

1 Member and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2026, 11:40:08 AM »
What is going unmentioned here is the very event that has necessitated a re-enchantment in the contemporary world --

The ersatz Enlightenment with its sterile Rationalism!

The whole contemporary world has been infected with this Rationalism, including traditionalist Catholicism. It grounds the way that we are structured as societies and even the way that we think and behave. Further, it forms a mental barrier that blocks off a mystical and medieval grasp of Reality, a barrier whose removal is an arduous, life-time struggle for us moderns. Even the supposed post-moderns who verbally reject Rationalism still arrive right back at a Rationalist framing of the universe.

Msgr. Williamson referred to the Enlightenment as the Endarkening.

As for knowing from Scripture and Tradition alone, that falls right into the very fissure of Faith and Reason brought about by the so-called Enlightenment. The Via Naturalis (Reason/Philosophy) is not opposed to the Via Supernaturalis (Faith/Theology). These are two different ways of arriving at Truth. They are complimentary, not antagonistic as Modernity views them to be. The Via Naturalis is subordinate to the Via Supernaturalis, of course. The starting points are different as too the questions that these learning approaches ask. Nevertheless, their sought ends are identical -- the Good, the True, and the Beautiful -- and, ultimately the Greatest Good, namely, God.

This is what is being lost here in trying to form an apologetic for a re-enchantment, i.e., mystical approach to understand reality.
An Oxfordian who gets that "even in your world, my son, that is not what a star is, but only what it is made of" ::)

Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2026, 12:13:34 PM »
Why is it important to seek knowledge from a deer? Isn't Scripture and Tradition good enough?
Because people like allegories and metaphors.  Because we can see a deer walking in nature and understand what is being described in scripture.


Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2026, 12:20:03 PM »
I would agree that birds are a joyful thing for humans to behold; they are created by God, and as such we can marvel in the attributes that God has given them. I love birds and have quite a few bird feeders and bird houses around my house, but that does not mean that they have anything of a profound spiritual nature to teach me.

So I would like to ask: what is it specifically about deer that causes you to believe that we can learn something from them? My personal observations about deer is that they are quite beautiful. They are also simple-minded and not very bright, and they have a sort of child-like humility about them. What is your observations about deer? You mentioned them specifically earlier in this thread, so surely you have some thoughts on them? A direct answer would be appreciated, rather than deflecting onto another subject.
That makes sense.  Ignore my other post.  I hadn't read to this post yet.  I think majestic, when I see deer.

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2026, 04:38:31 PM »
No, otherwise works like Lord Of The Rings world be condemned.
Lord of the Rings describes -- allegorically -- things that are metaphors for the supernatural.

It does not advocate for use of nature with preternatural or divination purposes.

Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2026, 04:45:28 PM »
ESL lvl. 99 fren but I think I understand haha :^)

Tarot is the perfect example. There is a world of difference between

1. Trying to forecast the future through pulling cards and interpreting them (what gypsy women do), something against the first commandment that greatly offends God
and
2. Looking at the so-called Major Arcana, which are from the early 15th century, as the archetypes that they are. How is it fundamentally different to learn about and ponder what the things in the medieval image of "The Fool" mean and what the archetype means (St. Paul talks about holy foolishness, St. Francis of Assisi was a Holy Fool, etc.) than reading Virgil or Aesop and pondering it and baptizing it?

I think it's uncharitable to hear the word Tarot and inmediately think "Oh, ok so he's an occultist like Doctor Faustus". Many orthodox medieval authors wrote about the spiritual meaning of the different constellations, were they occultists because superstitious horoscopes exist?

I think my main point is that the Re-Enchantment movement exists for a reason, people thirst for the enchanted, meaning-filled and "storied" world which existed for centuries upon centuries. Modern Traditionalist Catholicism often doesn't deliver when it very well could since it's a fully Catholic worldview.
I think the re-enchantment movement is, yes, based on a real longing to embrace God and the supernatural.

It just gets inverted and usurped by preternatural nuttiness.   Pretty quickly, if one is not careful.   

Hence, the problem.