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Author Topic: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism  (Read 15139 times)

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Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2026, 03:16:01 AM »
The main problem with this sort of thing is where to draw the line. Much like the wisdom we get from the Orientals. Take medicine, for instance. There's obvious some truth in Chinese medicine, acupunture and reflexology, but it is hard to know where the true wisdom stops and the dragon stuff begins.

We could say the same about Newton. He was a great physicist, but he was also a kind of warlock.

William Blake was a great poet, but his art was full of occultist stuff. It's all mixed up.
This highlights that "occult" is a very flimsy label IMO. Evola committed many errors, so did Hesiod, Pyrrho, Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson, Hume, Locke, what makes Evola's errors especially "occult" compared to them? That they get sold in new age stores? That they have a spooky vibe?

Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2026, 08:44:12 AM »
What is going unmentioned here is the very event that has necessitated a re-enchantment in the contemporary world --

The ersatz Enlightenment with its sterile Rationalism!

The whole contemporary world has been infected with this Rationalism, including traditionalist Catholicism. It grounds the way that we are structured as societies and even the way that we think and behave. Further, it forms a mental barrier that blocks off a mystical and medieval grasp of Reality, a barrier whose removal is an arduous, life-time struggle for us moderns. Even the supposed post-moderns who verbally reject Rationalism still arrive right back at a Rationalist framing of the universe.

Msgr. Williamson referred to the Enlightenment as the Endarkening.

As for knowing from Scripture and Tradition alone, that falls right into the very fissure of Faith and Reason brought about by the so-called Enlightenment. The Via Naturalis (Reason/Philosophy) is not opposed to the Via Supernaturalis (Faith/Theology). These are two different ways of arriving at Truth. They are complimentary, not antagonistic as Modernity views them to be. The Via Naturalis is subordinate to the Via Supernaturalis, of course. The starting points are different as too the questions that these learning approaches ask. Nevertheless, their sought ends are identical -- the Good, the True, and the Beautiful -- and, ultimately the Greatest Good, namely, God.

This is what is being lost here in trying to form an apologetic for a re-enchantment, i.e., mystical approach to understand reality.


Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2026, 11:40:08 AM »
What is going unmentioned here is the very event that has necessitated a re-enchantment in the contemporary world --

The ersatz Enlightenment with its sterile Rationalism!

The whole contemporary world has been infected with this Rationalism, including traditionalist Catholicism. It grounds the way that we are structured as societies and even the way that we think and behave. Further, it forms a mental barrier that blocks off a mystical and medieval grasp of Reality, a barrier whose removal is an arduous, life-time struggle for us moderns. Even the supposed post-moderns who verbally reject Rationalism still arrive right back at a Rationalist framing of the universe.

Msgr. Williamson referred to the Enlightenment as the Endarkening.

As for knowing from Scripture and Tradition alone, that falls right into the very fissure of Faith and Reason brought about by the so-called Enlightenment. The Via Naturalis (Reason/Philosophy) is not opposed to the Via Supernaturalis (Faith/Theology). These are two different ways of arriving at Truth. They are complimentary, not antagonistic as Modernity views them to be. The Via Naturalis is subordinate to the Via Supernaturalis, of course. The starting points are different as too the questions that these learning approaches ask. Nevertheless, their sought ends are identical -- the Good, the True, and the Beautiful -- and, ultimately the Greatest Good, namely, God.

This is what is being lost here in trying to form an apologetic for a re-enchantment, i.e., mystical approach to understand reality.
An Oxfordian who gets that "even in your world, my son, that is not what a star is, but only what it is made of" ::)

Offline Gray2023

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Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2026, 12:13:34 PM »
Why is it important to seek knowledge from a deer? Isn't Scripture and Tradition good enough?
Because people like allegories and metaphors.  Because we can see a deer walking in nature and understand what is being described in scripture.

Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Occult Subversion of Traditional Catholicism
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2026, 12:20:03 PM »
I would agree that birds are a joyful thing for humans to behold; they are created by God, and as such we can marvel in the attributes that God has given them. I love birds and have quite a few bird feeders and bird houses around my house, but that does not mean that they have anything of a profound spiritual nature to teach me.

So I would like to ask: what is it specifically about deer that causes you to believe that we can learn something from them? My personal observations about deer is that they are quite beautiful. They are also simple-minded and not very bright, and they have a sort of child-like humility about them. What is your observations about deer? You mentioned them specifically earlier in this thread, so surely you have some thoughts on them? A direct answer would be appreciated, rather than deflecting onto another subject.
That makes sense.  Ignore my other post.  I hadn't read to this post yet.  I think majestic, when I see deer.