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Author Topic: Occasion of sin  (Read 288 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Occasion of sin
« on: June 28, 2025, 01:35:42 AM »
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  • I often forget about proximate and remote.

    Particularly on impure thoughts or rather things that may cause impure thoughts.

    Is something that may cause impure thoughts always a proximate occasion of sin? Always mortal sin?

    Say you might avoid going to the beach because women dress immodestly, going there might make you have impure thoughts, and it can easily start just be admiring the female form. Because people do like what they see if you know what I mean.

    Or maybe you might see photos of women in tight clothing online just by "browsing/surfing" (should really be avoided though sometimes it happens when you are looking for information on something) and are tempted with a bad thought. Would this also be a proximate or remote occasion? 

    I think I read from a Saint before that proximate occasions for impurity is always a mortal sin (unless 'necessary') but I have forgotten. Is this correct?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Occasion of sin
    « Reply #1 on: June 28, 2025, 04:35:33 AM »
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  • Snip from: The Necessity Of The Virtue Of Chasity And How To Attain It

    Tertullian relates that a certain pagan philosopher, plucked out his eyes in order to preserve chastity. This is not lawful for us, but if we wish to avoid sins against purity, we must abstain from looking at women, and still more, from looking at them a second time.

    “Look at dangerous objects”, says St. Francis De Sales, “is not so hurtful to us as to repeat the look”. And St. John Chrysostom adds, that “it is necessary to turn away the eyes whose dress or manner is immodest, but even from those whose demeaner is full of modesty”. Hence, holy Joe made a compact with his eyes not to look at any women, even at a chaste virgin because he knew from looks, evil thoughts arise. I made a covenant with my eyes that I would not so much as think upon a virgin.

    Ecclesiasticus 9:5 advises us to imitate the example of Job, “gaze not upon a maiden, lest her beauty be a stumbling block to thee”. St. Augustine adds, “from looks spring evil thoughts, the thoughts produce a certain carnal delectation, though indeliberate. To this indeliberate delectation succeeds the consent of the will, and behold, the soul is lost”.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Occasion of sin
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 07:34:14 AM »
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  • Snip from: The Necessity Of The Virtue Of Chasity And How To Attain It

    Tertullian relates that a certain pagan philosopher, plucked out his eyes in order to preserve chastity. This is not lawful for us, but if we wish to avoid sins against purity, we must abstain from looking at women, and still more, from looking at them a second time.

    “Look at dangerous objects”, says St. Francis De Sales, “is not so hurtful to us as to repeat the look”. And St. John Chrysostom adds, that “it is necessary to turn away the eyes whose dress or manner is immodest, but even from those whose demeaner is full of modesty”. Hence, holy Joe made a compact with his eyes not to look at any women, even at a chaste virgin because he knew from looks, evil thoughts arise. I made a covenant with my eyes that I would not so much as think upon a virgin.

    Ecclesiasticus 9:5 advises us to imitate the example of Job, “gaze not upon a maiden, lest her beauty be a stumbling block to thee”. St. Augustine adds, “from looks spring evil thoughts, the thoughts produce a certain carnal delectation, though indeliberate. To this indeliberate delectation succeeds the consent of the will, and behold, the soul is lost”.
    Ok a nice answer but it only addresses some of my concerns.

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Occasion of sin
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 05:58:56 PM »
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  • https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11196a.htm


    Quote
    Occasions of Sin

    Occasions of sin are external circuмstances--whether of things or persons--which either because of their special nature or because of the frailty common to humanity or peculiar to some individual, incite or entice one to sin.

    It is important to remember that there is a wide difference between the cause and the occasion of sin. The cause of sin in the last analysis is the perverse human will and is intrinsic to the human composite. The occasion is something extrinsic and, given the freedom of the will, cannot, properly speaking, stand in causal relation to the act or vicious habit which we call sin. There can be no doubt that in general the same obligation which binds us to refrain from sin requires us to shun its occasion. Qui tenetur ad finem, tenetur ad media (he who is bound to reach a certain end is bound to employ the means to attain it).


    Theologians distinguish between the proximate and the remote occasion. They are not altogether at one as to the precise value to be attributed to the terms. De Lugo defines proximate occasion (De poenit. disp. 14, n. 149) as one in which men of like calibre for the most part fall into mortal sin, or one in which experience points to the same result from the special weakness of a particular person. The remote occasion lacks these elements. All theologians are agreed that there is no obligation to avoid the remote occasions of sin both because this would, practically speaking, be impossible and because they do not involve serious danger of sin.

    As to the proximate occasion, it may be of the sort that is described as necessary, that is, such as a person cannot abandon or get rid of. Whether this impossibility be physical or moral does not matter for the determination of the principles hereinafter to be laid down. Or it may be voluntary, that is within the competency of one to remove. Moralists distinguish between a proximate occasion which is continuous and one which, whilst it is unquestionably proximate, yet confronts a person only at intervals. It is certain that one who is in the presence of a proximate occasion at once voluntary and continuous is bound to remove it. A refusal on the part of a penitent to do so would make it imperative for the confessor to deny absolution. It is not always necessary for the confessor to await the actual performance of this duty before giving absolution; he may be content with a sincere promise, which is the minimum to be required. Theologians agree that one is not obliged to shun the proximate but necessary occasions. Nemo tenetur ad impossibile (no one is bound to do what is impossible). There is no question here of freely casting oneself into the danger of sin. The assumption is that stress of unavoidable circuмstances has imposed this unhappy situation. All that can then be required is the employment of such means as will make the peril of sin remote. The difficulty is to determine when a proximate occasion is to be regarded as not physically (that is plain enough) but morally necessary. Much has been written by theologians in the attempt to find a rule for the measurement of this moral necessity and a formula for its expression, but not successfully. It seems to be quite clear that a proximate occasion may be deemed necessary when it cannot be given up without grave scandal or loss of good name or without notable temporal or spiritual damage.


    https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/sin-occasions


    Quote
    An occasion of sin is said to be remote or proximate, according to the degree of influence it exercises on the person whose sin it may occasion. If the attraction it exerts is not strong, or there is only a relatively small probability of its leading to sin, the occasion is remote; if the attraction is powerful, or the probability of sin is serious, the occasion is proximate. Remote occasions abound in the lives of most people, and there is no obligation to try to avoid them. An occasion of sin can be proximate for everyone and in that case is called an absolute proximate occasion. Other occasions are proximate only for certain individuals because of their weaknesses and particular dispositions, and these are said to be relative.

    The relative frequency of lapses in the exposure to a certain occasion that requires its classification as proximate is a matter of dispute among theologians. Some are of the opinion that one must fall more frequently than not in a particular type of occasion before it becomes proximate. Others hold that fewer lapses would suffice to make the occasion proximate, agreeing with St. Alphonsus that if an individual sins four out of ten times in a given situation, that situation should be considered a proximate occasion of sin for him. All agree, however, that it is imprudent for a person to place himself in an occasion in which he frequently sins.