Probably the idea of an integral Catholic parish life that can only be had in a few small places such as St. Mary's, Mount St. Michael, or St. Gertrude's.

Of all the places to pick for a traditional Catholic town, why does it have to be in one of the ugliest parts of the country? I have been to Kansas (l live the Pacific NW) and there is nothing special about it at all.

To each their own, I guess. I find Kansas to be remarkably beautiful, especially the part that I live in currently. Most people with narrow opinions of it form their prejudice by passing through on I-70 or some other popular interstate or highway without seeing the scenic areas, of which are plentiful.
As far as being special, I find the sunsets to be especially so. It's on record for one of the best places to see sunsets in the US. People are friendly, and the cost of living is relatively low compared to the Pacific NW. That, and liberals are generally unwelcome in much of small town, KS. It has its perks.

I love Kansas.

The area surrounding St. Mary's does have some pretty countryside. It's surrounded by quiet small towns, but Topeka is not far away, so one still can access some of the convenient things found in cities.
I do hope these families wanting to move secure a job first. They are hard to come by.

Quote from: jman123

Why is it that many young sspx couples yearn to move to St Mary's? What's its allure?

I've seen it too. At our old SSPX chapel, there were two young couples that were married recently (like we were at the time). We became friends with them; it was great while it lasted.

But then both couples moved to St. Mary's. One of them moved many other places afterwards, but the other couple was originally FROM St. Mary's, so they always wanted to go back.

Personally, I'm very negative on St. Mary's, KS. Besides the obvious reason (it's a mecca of the SSPX, which is now the neo-SSPX and is going back to Rome on the fast train), I'm also against everyone up and moving to a "utopia". Utopias are seldom what they seem, and often disappoint. Historically, all utopias have had problems. St. Mary's is no exception.

The world is still there, all around you. Cell phones and the Internet bring it in. The problem with recreating a peaceful 1950's parish during a time of crisis/war is that everyone there tends to think the war is over. Why wouldn't they? They have everything a Catholic from the 1950's would expect from a parish.

But the war is very much still on, especially from The World. And escaping from the World geographically does NOT effect a complete escape. There are still many sources of worldliness and corruption which can reach St. Mary's citizens, including TV, movies, the Internet, etc. These sources bring the corruption close to home, sometimes even INSIDE your Catholic home.

I heard a report from a Trad Catholic who lives in St. Mary's -- he said that he was quite scandalized by the personal lives and worldliness of the young people there. As soon as the "wet blankets" (think: CathInfo members) left a given party, the remaining party-goers would let their hair down and open up to what they were really like (think: Fisheaters or Catholic Answers members!) It's pretty bad.

He also said that there were a handful of Meth labs in the small town of St. Mary's, KS. You can't say all that Meth is for the non-Catholics in the city.

I'm a strong believer that other places need some serious Catholics as well -- places like New York, Wisconsin, Texas, Florida, Arizona -- and every other state that isn't Kansas.

Yes, I agree, people should stop going to these quasi-utopias and expect everything to be perfect. 1950s Catholics had everything you describe, they just kept it under the rug.

I could write a book about it -- literally. Maybe someday I will.

Just for starters, you have a problem of authority.  In the 1950's, the Church wasn't in crisis, and every priest had a bishop over him, and every bishop had a pope above him, who was not only valid but doing his job and to-be-obeyed.

Today, you have Fr. Cekada, whose only authority over him in this world is Bishop Dolan, who is more of a friend and accomplice than a check on his power. Catholics living at St. Gertrude's have moved there to have access to this mega-parish, and moving elsewhere is not an easy process. Not to mention they've grown quite attached to their 50's Catholic lifestyle.

So, long story short, the potential for BULLYING and TYRANNY is immense. Not just St. Gertrudes, but any other Traditional "mecca".

The Faithful move to these places, making themselves needy and vulnerable (most can't sell their house, uproot, and move away to some other place in the country with anything remotely resembling ease), and in the meantime they form a large group of fat, juicy sheep -- it's natural to attract a hungry wolf or two.

The priests of these places have no earthly authority, so it's easy for them to become tyrants. The priests own the buildings, they run the schools, they provide/control the Sacraments, and the Faithful have little or nothing. Sure, the Faithful might each have a few bucks for the collection plate -- but when you have a parish of 500, who needs a single, particular family? But more importantly, it's easier for them to become corrupt since there is more money and luxury sloshing around. These priests live 10X better than any other missionary/Trad priest in any other part of the country. Both priests and Faithful are WELL taken care of -- daily Mass, parish groups, and multiple priests -- which means the individual priests can kick back a bit, since they're not SOLELY responsible. They get to have "days off" and such.

When a parish grows to a certain size and becomes "well established", the priest can transform from "hand-to-mouth missionary" into a "9 to 5 priest" and it becomes more of a job for him, rather than an 18-hour-a-day labor of love, working tirelessly to establish a chapel on a shoestring budget, and establish a flock from scratch.

The priest no longer needs to be apostolic either, since the large Trad meccas have great word-of-mouth and paid advertising of all kinds, thanks to their immense resources (drawn from a huge congregation). The amenities the mecca has to offer (6 Masses every Sunday, 3 priests living on site, established schools, even colleges, etc.) sell themselves. The priest doesn't need to be a devoted pastor, or anything special. The people will come from all over.

Allow me to explain, with an example from personal experience:
At the Seminary, I remember how much work there was over the summer, when there were only a couple Brothers and 6 or 7 seminarians to do all the work. We had no free time to study, and could barely squeeze in our daily Spiritual Duties.  When we had 40 seminarians, the work level was "normal" -- but everyone had a job every week (cleaning floors, bathrooms, setting tables, waiter, dishes, mealtime reader, etc.) and had to work from 1/2 hour to 1 hour every day on chores. However, in my last year the population ballooned to 70 seminarians, so the older seminarians got regular "weeks off" when they had no chores for the week. From a comfort standpoint, it was great. Basically we had economy of scale kick in. Running/cleaning a seminary for 70 isn't much harder than doing it for 40, but you have THIRTY MORE young, adult men to help out.

Compare being a parent watching 10 children -- you have to be on duty at all times -- with being an employee at a company with 20 other employees. Do you have the same level of stress, vigilance, and responsibility? Of course not. You can blend in, you can "get comfortable", you can live high off the hog a bit, enjoy life a bit, coast a bit, slack off a bit, etc. in a way you couldn't if you were the only employee and it was your home business. When there are enough people, YOU CAN BE CARRIED BY OTHERS and if the group is large enough, they won't even notice.

This is why mega-lifeboats (chapels) are so ill-advised today. Not only will the occupants mistake the lifeboat (St. Gertrude's) for the original ship (the Catholic Church), but there is much more potential to exploit the sheep. It's hard for a priest to get "comfortable" when he's flying and driving all around the country, saying Mass for small groups of 20, 50, or 100 people. Such a priest is a missionary like the holy priest Fr. De Smet. He works a labor of love for God and for souls.

Hard work really is good for the soul, and it really does prevent a large swath of sins. This goes for the laity as well as priests.

Quote from: Maximus33

Of all the places to pick for a traditional Catholic town, why does it have to be in one of the ugliest parts of the country? I have been to Kansas (l live the Pacific NW) and there is nothing special about it at all.

To each their own, I guess. I find Kansas to be remarkably beautiful, especially the part that I live in currently. Most people with narrow opinions of it form their prejudice by passing through on I-70 or some other popular interstate or highway without seeing the scenic areas, of which are plentiful.
As far as being special, I find the sunsets to be especially so. It's on record for one of the best places to see sunsets in the US. People are friendly, and the cost of living is relatively low compared to the Pacific NW. That, and liberals are generally unwelcome in much of small town, KS. It has its perks.

I love Kansas.

The area surrounding St. Mary's does have some pretty countryside. It's surrounded by quiet small towns, but Topeka is not far away, so one still can access some of the convenient things found in cities.
I do hope these families wanting to move secure a job first. They are hard to come by.

Fair enough. Physical beauty is often relative to each person.

I suspect many young families choose to go to these meccas for the school. And, not just any Trad school will do as if you're relocating anyhow, a bigger school means more opportunities for your children and less likelihood of the school being forced in the future to close.

MD:

I suspect many young families choose to go to these meccas for the school. And, not just any Trad school will do as if you're relocating anyhow, a bigger school means more opportunities for your children and less likelihood of the school being forced in the future to close.

If young families choose these larger chapels for the school opportunities, I would suggest that they exercise much caution in doing so.  Immaculate Conception Academy in Post Falls is an integral part of a large traditional "mecca."  You all know what's happened there.  That situation has to this day not been properly addressed, IMO.  I can not imagine that St. Mary's in Kansas does not have similar problems, which have, as yet, to be fully exposed.