Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: gooch

I think I'm with Parents for truth on this one..I just can't see myself attending a novus order mass.  is there anything from popes supporting the attend but don't participate stance? here's some interesting  quotes..let me know your thoughts

Pope Pius IX’s encyclical, Graves ac diuturnae.  Speaking of the “Old Catholic” heretics and schismatics, Pius IX says:

 

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”



Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos #9, Jan. 6, 1928: “Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).”

This is more about respecting the dead and having an ordered relationship with your family than it is about respecting the novus ordo liturgy.  Furthermore, according to the conciliar church, the doctrine has not changed, only the pastoral mission and the liturgy.  

Actually the doctrine has changed, the conciliar or Vatican 2 church professes beliefs contrary to the sacred dogmas- i.e. non catholics can receive communion,  catholics should pray with protestants, catholics and muslims worship the same God, etc. etc.

The comparison between the Vatican 2 sect and the Old Catholic Sect is very accurate. Pius IX makes it VERY CLEAR to avoid priests who hold no authority, hold no offices in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and are wolves leading people to hell which the Novus Ordo does. Again, I will provide this excellent quote:

 Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Which churches have jurisdiction these days Conquistador and where do they get the jurisdiction from?  Can we attend Byzantine churches?  SSPX?  FSSP?  Which ones have jurisdiction?

Quote from: Ryan

Which churches have jurisdiction these days Conquistador and where do they get the jurisdiction from?  Can we attend Byzantine churches?  SSPX?  FSSP?  Which ones have jurisdiction?

The answer to this question, if you believe the Novus Ordo is an anti-Catholic sect, is that none of them have jurisdiction. Except maybe in an extraordinary state of emergency way.

In that case, I really don't believe that his quotation from Pius IX is entirely relevant to the question at hand.  Since he put such emphasis on jurisdiction, and jurisdiction is a bit hazy these days, his statement can not be taken word for word to be applicable to our current state of affairs.

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: conquistador1492

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: gooch

I think I'm with Parents for truth on this one..I just can't see myself attending a novus order mass.  is there anything from popes supporting the attend but don't participate stance? here's some interesting  quotes..let me know your thoughts

Pope Pius IX’s encyclical, Graves ac diuturnae.  Speaking of the “Old Catholic” heretics and schismatics, Pius IX says:

 

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”



Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos #9, Jan. 6, 1928: “Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).”

This is more about respecting the dead and having an ordered relationship with your family than it is about respecting the novus ordo liturgy.  Furthermore, according to the conciliar church, the doctrine has not changed, only the pastoral mission and the liturgy.  

Actually the doctrine has changed, the conciliar or Vatican 2 church professes beliefs contrary to the sacred dogmas- i.e. non catholics can receive communion,  catholics should pray with protestants, catholics and muslims worship the same God, etc. etc.

The comparison between the Vatican 2 sect and the Old Catholic Sect is very accurate. Pius IX makes it VERY CLEAR to avoid priests who hold no authority, hold no offices in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and are wolves leading people to hell which the Novus Ordo does. Again, I will provide this excellent quote:

 Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Which churches have jurisdiction these days Conquistador and where do they get the jurisdiction from?  Can we attend Byzantine churches?  SSPX?  FSSP?  Which ones have jurisdiction?

All of the groups you mentioned have problems, and are heretical, so no.

V2 byaznitne/FSSP- They are in the Vatican 2 church. Enough said

SSPX- Refuse to accept the Church's teaching that a manifest heretic cannot be pope (cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, Paul IV ) and have decided to adopt a schismatic position where they recognize the actual "pope" leading a modernist "conciliar" church which is also THE Catholic Church at the same time? Confused? I am.

More importantly, as Gooch clearly demonstrated, they believe souls can be saved in other religions by implicit desire. This is heresy. Its a complete perversion of Pius IX. On top of that, they also preach birth control through NFP. Other problems too.

But if no one has jurisdiction any longer and no Mass is allowable, then the Church is no longer, and the gates of hell have prevailed.  How does that reconcile?

Quote from: conquistador1492

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: conquistador1492

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: gooch

I think I'm with Parents for truth on this one..I just can't see myself attending a novus order mass.  is there anything from popes supporting the attend but don't participate stance? here's some interesting  quotes..let me know your thoughts

Pope Pius IX’s encyclical, Graves ac diuturnae.  Speaking of the “Old Catholic” heretics and schismatics, Pius IX says:

 

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”



Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos #9, Jan. 6, 1928: “Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).”

This is more about respecting the dead and having an ordered relationship with your family than it is about respecting the novus ordo liturgy.  Furthermore, according to the conciliar church, the doctrine has not changed, only the pastoral mission and the liturgy.  

Actually the doctrine has changed, the conciliar or Vatican 2 church professes beliefs contrary to the sacred dogmas- i.e. non catholics can receive communion,  catholics should pray with protestants, catholics and muslims worship the same God, etc. etc.

The comparison between the Vatican 2 sect and the Old Catholic Sect is very accurate. Pius IX makes it VERY CLEAR to avoid priests who hold no authority, hold no offices in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and are wolves leading people to hell which the Novus Ordo does. Again, I will provide this excellent quote:

 Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Which churches have jurisdiction these days Conquistador and where do they get the jurisdiction from?  Can we attend Byzantine churches?  SSPX?  FSSP?  Which ones have jurisdiction?

All of the groups you mentioned have problems, and are heretical, so no.

V2 byaznitne/FSSP- They are in the Vatican 2 church. Enough said

SSPX- Refuse to accept the Church's teaching that a manifest heretic cannot be pope (cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, Paul IV ) and have decided to adopt a schismatic position where they recognize the actual "pope" leading a modernist "conciliar" church which is also THE Catholic Church at the same time? Confused? I am.

More importantly, as Gooch clearly demonstrated, they believe souls can be saved in other religions by implicit desire. This is heresy. Its a complete perversion of Pius IX. On top of that, they also preach birth control through NFP. Other problems too.

But if no one has jurisdiction any longer and no Mass is allowable, then the Church is no longer, and the gates of hell have prevailed.  How does that reconcile?

Ryan the gates of hell refers to heretics who overtake the Church. The Church teaches that heretics are outside the Church and that public heretics can not hold office, thereby automatically preventing the gates of hell from prevailing. By accepting all these heretics as popes and all these apostates as the legitimate hierarchy, it is the SSPX and associated groups who actually believe the gates of hell have prevailed.

You view the Holy Roman Catholic Church in a superficial manner; by thinking of the church strictly as buildings, chapels, and priests. The Church is more than buildings- its people who ACTUALLY ARE CATHOLIC and profess all the dogmas.

There is no Church teaching anywhere that defines the existence of the church by the amount of masses being offered to that are pleasing to God.

Who does Bishop Fellay answer to? Why does he have any more authority than Francis? Or even myself? Or any other poster on here?

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: conquistador1492

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: conquistador1492

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: gooch

I think I'm with Parents for truth on this one..I just can't see myself attending a novus order mass.  is there anything from popes supporting the attend but don't participate stance? here's some interesting  quotes..let me know your thoughts

Pope Pius IX’s encyclical, Graves ac diuturnae.  Speaking of the “Old Catholic” heretics and schismatics, Pius IX says:

 

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”



Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos #9, Jan. 6, 1928: “Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).”

This is more about respecting the dead and having an ordered relationship with your family than it is about respecting the novus ordo liturgy.  Furthermore, according to the conciliar church, the doctrine has not changed, only the pastoral mission and the liturgy.  

Actually the doctrine has changed, the conciliar or Vatican 2 church professes beliefs contrary to the sacred dogmas- i.e. non catholics can receive communion,  catholics should pray with protestants, catholics and muslims worship the same God, etc. etc.

The comparison between the Vatican 2 sect and the Old Catholic Sect is very accurate. Pius IX makes it VERY CLEAR to avoid priests who hold no authority, hold no offices in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and are wolves leading people to hell which the Novus Ordo does. Again, I will provide this excellent quote:

 Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Which churches have jurisdiction these days Conquistador and where do they get the jurisdiction from?  Can we attend Byzantine churches?  SSPX?  FSSP?  Which ones have jurisdiction?

All of the groups you mentioned have problems, and are heretical, so no.

V2 byaznitne/FSSP- They are in the Vatican 2 church. Enough said

SSPX- Refuse to accept the Church's teaching that a manifest heretic cannot be pope (cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, Paul IV ) and have decided to adopt a schismatic position where they recognize the actual "pope" leading a modernist "conciliar" church which is also THE Catholic Church at the same time? Confused? I am.

More importantly, as Gooch clearly demonstrated, they believe souls can be saved in other religions by implicit desire. This is heresy. Its a complete perversion of Pius IX. On top of that, they also preach birth control through NFP. Other problems too.

But if no one has jurisdiction any longer and no Mass is allowable, then the Church is no longer, and the gates of hell have prevailed.  How does that reconcile?

Ryan the gates of hell refers to heretics who overtake the Church. The Church teaches that heretics are outside the Church and that public heretics can not hold office, thereby automatically preventing the gates of hell from prevailing. By accepting all these heretics as popes and all these apostates as the legitimate hierarchy, it is the SSPX and associated groups who actually believe the gates of hell have prevailed.

You view the Holy Roman Catholic Church in a superficial manner; by thinking of the church strictly as buildings, chapels, and priests. The Church is more than buildings- its people who ACTUALLY ARE CATHOLIC and profess all the dogmas.

There is no Church teaching anywhere that defines the existence of the church by the amount of masses being offered to that are pleasing to God.

Who does Bishop Fellay answer to? Why does he have any more authority than Francis? Or even myself? Or any other poster on here?

Clearly he doesn't have more authority than Francis given the society's stance with regards to the papacy.  His authority ends outside of the SSPX.  Since you are not the head of a priestly society, or an ordained priest for that matter, he has more authority than you, because he has authority over all of the priests and bishops in the society.  He also has the ability to consecrate the host, which neither you nor I have.

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: conquistador1492

Quote from: Ryan

Quote from: gooch

I think I'm with Parents for truth on this one..I just can't see myself attending a novus order mass.  is there anything from popes supporting the attend but don't participate stance? here's some interesting  quotes..let me know your thoughts

Pope Pius IX’s encyclical, Graves ac diuturnae.  Speaking of the “Old Catholic” heretics and schismatics, Pius IX says:

 

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”



Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos #9, Jan. 6, 1928: “Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).”

This is more about respecting the dead and having an ordered relationship with your family than it is about respecting the novus ordo liturgy.  Furthermore, according to the conciliar church, the doctrine has not changed, only the pastoral mission and the liturgy.  

Actually the doctrine has changed, the conciliar or Vatican 2 church professes beliefs contrary to the sacred dogmas- i.e. non catholics can receive communion,  catholics should pray with protestants, catholics and muslims worship the same God, etc. etc.

The comparison between the Vatican 2 sect and the Old Catholic Sect is very accurate. Pius IX makes it VERY CLEAR to avoid priests who hold no authority, hold no offices in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and are wolves leading people to hell which the Novus Ordo does. Again, I will provide this excellent quote:

 Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Which churches have jurisdiction these days Conquistador and where do they get the jurisdiction from?  Can we attend Byzantine churches?  SSPX?  FSSP?  Which ones have jurisdiction?

All of the groups you mentioned have problems, and are heretical, so no.

V2 byaznitne/FSSP- They are in the Vatican 2 church. Enough said

SSPX- Refuse to accept the Church's teaching that a manifest heretic cannot be pope (cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, Paul IV ) and have decided to adopt a schismatic position where they recognize the actual "pope" leading a modernist "conciliar" church which is also THE Catholic Church at the same time? Confused? I am.

More importantly, as Gooch clearly demonstrated, they believe souls can be saved in other religions by implicit desire. This is heresy. Its a complete perversion of Pius IX. On top of that, they also preach birth control through NFP. Other problems too.

conquistador, lets say you had to bury a close relative, what do you do? no mass?