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Author Topic: New NFP booklet?  (Read 5257 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: New NFP booklet?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2017, 06:31:51 PM »
"Which of my children would you wish I did not have?"  There was a sudden silence with no forthcoming reply.  I think my fellow employee immediately realized his terrible gaffe and wished he could have slithered out of the restaurant at that very moment.  He was quite subdued for the rest of the evening as best I can recall!

Yes, that is always my response when various extended family criticize the number of children my wife and I have had.  "So, which one would you like me to get rid of?"  [that's a little more direct and blunt than "wish I did not have"]  Of those couples who have limited their families, God will ask them at their judgment, "So where is John and where is Therese, the souls I would have desired to bring into existence."?   Controlling birth is a greater evil than murder because you're preventing souls from coming into existence.  Now, at a layer above this, of course, God uses everything, including our sinful decisions, as a way to direct His providence.  But we're still subjectively guilty.  So, for instance, if I murder someone, then surely God willed that the victim should die that day, but that does not diminish my responsibility for murder.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: New NFP booklet?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2017, 06:34:22 PM »

Anyways, is the following a fair representation of your argument, in logical form:
.
(Major Premise 1) Contraceptive acts are intrinsically against nature
(Minor Premise 1) NFP (i.e., the reservation of the marital act to sterile periods for a grave reason) is contraceptive
(Minor Premise 2) But a thing which is intrinsically against nature can never be licit, no matter the situation
Ergo, reserving the marital act to sterile periods is sinful as such
.

Has nothing to do with it.  It's the teaching of CC that the primary end of marital relations can never be subordinated to the secondary ... which Pius XII completely ignored, citing only the section on the inherent potential (natural power) of the act.


Re: New NFP booklet?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2017, 06:52:19 PM »
Has nothing to do with it.  It's the teaching of CC that the primary end of marital relations can never be subordinated to the secondary ... which Pius XII completely ignored, citing only the section on the inherent potential (natural power) of the act.
.
Tell that to AES, I was trying to summarize his position, and asked him to clarify if I had it wrong.  In either event,
.
What reasons would you give that a sterile couple are not guilty of such subordination, or that a fertile couple who have very bad timing and inadvertently but always observe only sterile periods, are similarly not guilty of such subordination? 

Re: New NFP booklet?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2017, 06:54:33 PM »
klasG4e,

No one is defending the indiscriminate use of NFP found and taught in the Novus Ordo.  The only question is about Pius XII's teaching, and even those who say he was wrong understand that he stipulated the use of NFP on a grave reason.

Re: New NFP booklet?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2017, 07:12:17 PM »
klasG4e,

No one is defending the indiscriminate use of NFP found and taught in the Novus Ordo.  The only question is about Pius XII's teaching, and even those who say he was wrong understand that he stipulated the use of NFP on a grave reason.
OK, right!  Sorry, if I may have been a distraction.