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Author Topic: Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds  (Read 4195 times)

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Offline MrsZ

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Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
« on: November 10, 2011, 06:54:13 PM »
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  • I've been very concerned about our 19 year old son most of this year.  I've written before on here that he is a volunteer firefighter and EMT.  He's taking more classes to work toward his goal of being hired by the state of federal govt.  We've been supporting him through this ... he pays what he can .. but his jobs have been mostly seasonal and part time.  

    Well, especially this year after he began working at our local ski park ... and hanging out with a new friend ... things have been changing .. I have had reasons that I felt that he was changing and involving himself in things he shouldn't be .. that whole "brotherhood" garbage at the fire dept ... the fact that everyone he's met is hooking up, fooling around ... everyone watches everything on TV and all the movies (there's a tv at the station of course...we don't have TV here) ... tattooes are common, so is out of wedlock children, shacking up .. .divorces, affairs ... you name it.  

    Well, what with his schedule, work, school, other things .. he's hardly home anymore .. when he is it's all cell phone and computer ... we don't know his friends personally ... and we don't know what he's doing half the time.  Many many times he's come home in the middle of the night ..or worse, told us he was staying at the fire dept ... but I now realize that was a lie to cover for whatever else he was doing.

    I've been talking to my H about this all year expressing all my fears and doubts and my H tells me that I'm overreacting, that our son needs "space" and "trust" and that I have to "give him room."  He also tells me that I'm judgmental .. that our kids are going to "make mistakes..."  

    Well, today .. .based on some intuition (which has been happening a lot lately) I signed into Facebook under a dummy account (note: son does not allow his sister to be his "friend" on facebook .. although she doesn't even use her account...and his father and I are not on it) .. I looked at his account.  I know that he has tons of "friends" lots of girls .. but gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed most were friends of friends ...

    One of the girls listed has a profile picture of our son and her kissing!  :sad:  I have no idea who this girl is, I've never heard of her or seen her.  I assume he met her at this class he's taking in the evenings .. and then the students all hang out at a local fast food place afterward.
     
    ... I have talked to him for years about avoiding intimacy with girls ... of waiting all that .. .My H said he had a conversation with him 6 months ago and that our son told him he hadn't done anything and was "proud" to still be a virgin .. well I can't believe that now.

    Now before you say "Kick him out! "

    It's not that simple.  My first problem is his father.  His father is the one who's minimized all of my worries .. he's also deflected my worries by basically suggesting that our son was above it all and not going to fall like the others ... all the while talking about the kids "making mistakes." As you can tell, he's flimsy in his way of talking and his behavior.  I'm married to a non confrontational, passive, weak ... nominal Catholic who admonished me last week for saying I was concerned about our daughter spending time wtih his sister who's been married 3 xs and divorced twice adn is an ardent support of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.

    He's taking out his anger and frustration against me due to our marital issues .. and I perceive that he's not going to support me in doing something about our son's lying, deception and his apparent descent into carnal behavior (and he continues to receive the Eucharist ..may God have mercy on him!  :cry: )

    So what do I do if I can't get my H's support in dealing wtih this?  My response is that son has to make a choice: either give this all up now if he wants to live here...or leave and live the life he's chosen.  My son has no money right now and is finishing up academy.  In a month he'll have a seasonal job ... his truck needs work .. etc.  He can't afford to move out .. But I'm worried he might do even worse things if we kick him out now.  

    If my H won't put his foot down, if he minimizes this ... what am I supposed to do?  We can't condone our son committing mortal sin and living in our home!

    Help!


    Offline TraceG

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 07:46:18 PM »
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  • Please bear with me.  I may not be the parent of a 19yo but I'm a guy and have been 19.  From what you said your H is protestant in every respect and not catholic.  Quite frankly in imo he is wrong in every respect, but I'm not perfect.  You REALLY should be talking to a solidly traditional priest on the matter.  You are right to worry about your children.  I will also say this though.  It took me 33 years to be innoculized of my cranial rectitus.  If you don't know what it means, google it.  


    Offline Diego

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 08:01:29 PM »
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  • Since he is 19 you have:

    (1) your good example
    (2) prayer
    (3) his Catholic upbringing
    (4) your most inspired advice.

    You have your power of the purse, but exercising that will drive him out of your home into the arms of worse, not better. In decades of personal and professional experience I have never seen any good come of driving such a son from the home—not short term, not long term, not once, never.

    Love him in every way you can. Offer up the aching in your heart.

    Offline sedesvacans

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 09:23:27 PM »
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  • I have 22, 20, 10 year old boys and 18, 16 and 15 year old girls. I have also been a teenage boy.

    Aall we can do is keep leading them the right way. Yours will be the voice of reason that he will always have in the back of his mind that will keep him from extraordinary stupidity, but he will still make mistakes.

    If you think he is using drugs, it is extremely necessary to cut off his funds.

    You should be extremely frank with him about what you are thinking and he will be forced to address it with you. You must earn this respect with him because it can not be tolerated that he lies, etc.

    Your house, your rules. He must FEEL that and KNOW that. If you make that a serious non-negotiation, he will realize that it is that important and that might just be enough to turn him back around.

    He is an "adult" and has to have an understanding that "there is the door" trying to get by on his own if he won't follow your rules won't be easy, especially in this economy , but make it CLEAR to him what the rules are and what the consequences will be.

    Be firm. Kids will play everyone against each other forever if they see that THEY have the power.

    Your husband will either be with you or not, but you will have done everything that is in your power and that, with your rosary, will be enough. Don't let H's weakness prevent you from doing what you know to be right. Don't second-guess yourself because of H's weakness. Kids sense this like blood in the water!!

    It would be awesome if all of these questions of ours could be answered on a forum!!!!


    Offline Darcy

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 09:49:08 PM »
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  • The fire department changed my son so that I do not recognize him.
    It is almost like a cult fraternity.

    I would say to keep frequent contact with him, don't lecture him otherwise it will push him further to his buddies. See if he will go to Church with you. Ask him if the guys at the station ever go to Church and what religion they are. Just ask him questions to show interest in his work and them listen when he talks without interrupting him or judging or lecturing. Just show interest and listen. listen. listen.

    Ever since 911 firefighters have women at their beck and call and mom is not going to be able to put a cabash on that. You must devote your energies to praying that he receives Grace.

    Hopefully the novelty of all the female attention will wear off. Maturity will set in and he will seek a stable relationship with a faithful Catholic woman. Someone like his mother, so be patient. Don't alienate him at this critical time.

    I really miss my son. I did all the wrong things.


    Offline Diego

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 10:14:47 PM »
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  • I will pray that your son returns to his Catholic mother.

    Offline Raoul76

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 12:26:29 AM »
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  • Next time try having a son who never works, and who shuns all-American hard-working ( drone-state ) values -- like me!

    Just kidding, I am working, but I'm working for free on a translation project for CMRI.  And I thank God for a job that will keep me out of the foul American workplace but that I think pleases Him and helps the Church.

    It doesn't surprise me that the fire department is like a brotherhood.  The police apparently make you take a vow to fight against "homophobia" and "anti-Semitism."  I saw this oath on the wall of a police station in Southern California.  

    But rare is the child who at that age doesn't drift more or less towards the world.  They say if a child is taught the faith early, that they never forget, it's always in the blood.  So you just have to wait and pray that when he becomes dissatisfied with the empty life he appears to be living, he'll find his way back.

    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 12:44:46 AM »
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  • MrsZ said:
    Quote
    I'm married to a non confrontational, passive, weak ... nominal Catholic


    If you will forgive my saying so, you should not be talking about your husband this way.  It sounds like you hold him in utter contempt, and surely he picks up on this.  That cannot be conducive to a peaceful household.

    You are clearly a "hard sell" kind of Catholic. I sympathize, so am I, so is my best friend, who feels like he drove his entire family out of the Church by being too strict.  But a little bit of patience and meekness would not hurt the situation at all.  

    You can't change people by screaming at them or lording it over them, only by setting a good example, raising them in the faith and teaching them the best you can, and praying for them.  If you have done that, your conscience is clean.  Your husband and son can traipse merrily to hell but you will have done your duty.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Raoul76

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 12:52:40 AM »
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  • Diego said:  
    Quote
    In decades of personal and professional experience I have never seen any good come of driving such a son from the home—not short term, not long term, not once, never.


    I would have to agree.  If he is bringing girls home and scandalizing your household, then it's another story, but he is doing what he's doing outside the home.  He's even trying to hide what he's doing from you, which shows a certain respect, if in a perverse way.  He is definitely aware that you wouldn't approve of what he's doing.  That appears to be important enough that he goes to the trouble to hide it from you.  So use the respect that he has for you.  Show him your sadness and disappointment.  I think that is more powerful.  But you would have to talk to a priest about that; a sede priest of course, I can't vouch for a Novus Ordo non-priest  :smirk:  
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline MrsZ

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 10:22:34 AM »
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  • Thank you all so much for your answers and advice.  

    You're all right about various things you picked up on.  

    First thing I want to emphasize, and I think many of you understood this, our son is a good kid (young man).  He has never caused us any trouble.  He's hardworking and responsible ... and until he joined the fire dept., he'd been remarkably free from corrupting influences.  He also is essentially honest, although, obviously,  he is keeping things from us, from me ... and I agree Raoul that in some kind of perverse way, it is a type of respect.  

    He goes to Mass with us every Sunday ... except when things like the class he's taking requires a all day Sunday session, or the ski park has training on both Saturday and Sunday starting at 8am and going all day (this drives me crazy ... no one has one ounce of respect for Sunday and going to church at all anymore)

    Also, referencing my comment about my H.,  I thought about it again after I posted and knew it wasn't the right thing to say.  I have reached times of absolute feelings of terror in regard to the differences between my H and myself with regard to moral issues and practicing the Faith.  You're right that I'm a hardliner "legalist" and I have been seeing things more clearly this year than ever before.  I have been wrong many, many times ... and yet I can't seem to bring myself not to say something to my H when it comes to this seeming huge disparity in our beliefs.  My H is more prone to laxity and I'm obviously more prone to scrupulosity. Having said that I realize that my H has many excellent qualities, not the least of which is that he's here and he supports his family and he's incredibly loyal.  

    Frankly, if anything has an adverse affect on our family over the years, it's been this lack of meeting of minds between my H and myself.  I have not been able to get to that place of trusting his spiritual leadership because of this ... and I know that's not good.  So as others have said, this is not unrelated to how he deals with me and how we end up battling each other instead of addressing the problem.

    Only one young man (teenager younger than my son) is Catholic and goes to Mass regularly .. but he moved to a different fire dept last year .. and he's not around anymore.  Not one other firefighter goes to a Protestant church let alone Catholic Mass.  The chiefs are not good examples.  The girls that hang out at the dept are either daughters of the chief, or as lately, one "mascot" firefighter girl who has sexy pictures put up all over the internet.  The daughters are not good girls either ... I won't go into all that.  

    But the fact is .. .where are the good girls?  There are no good girls!  We've talked to our son about that .. and I realized recently here we've told him don't do this, don't do that (or I have) and yet what's the alternative plan of action?  Where will he meet a nice, Catholic girl?  We live in a small town, we have one parish church (Novus Ordo) and are 4 hours from the nearest FSSP.  We have no options in that regard.  

    I've wanted to leave this area for 10 of the 13 years we've lived here ... and my H would not budge.  Now we couldn't sell our house if we wanted to and we're stuck.  It's very frustrating .. and our daughter has virtually no options for part time job or schooling .. our local community college has had lots of budget cuts and unless you're going into fire fighting or nursing ... there's not much here.  Our daughter joined the N.O. youth group to at least meet some kids her own age that are "Catholic" ... what a joke.  They don't know their Faith at all .. and are unfortunately, seemingly retarded in their mental abilities.  Daughter is frustated and bored ..

     As you can see from my avatar, St. Monica picked me when I converted to Catholicism and she knew what she was doing! I resisted her for a long time for some reason and now in the last year I've turned to ask for her prayers many times.  

    My H came home from business trip last night (after we'd talked on the phone) and he said he'd have a talk with son today.  That's all I can hope for.  Thank you all again you've really helped me.  It's so comforting to know that others have been through things like this themselves.




    Offline Diego

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 10:53:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    ...a little bit of patience and meekness would not hurt the situation at all.  

    You can't change people by screaming at them or lording it over them, only by setting a good example...


    Good advice.


    Offline Diego

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 10:57:00 AM »
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  • And pray the Rosary. It is efficacious for these problems.

    Offline Matthew

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 11:46:48 AM »
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  • My advice:

    DON'T kick him out of the house. That will just force him to cohabitate with this girl, or some non-Catholic who will be a much worse influence on him.

    DO be a good example. Let him see you praying a lot, putting the Faith in a central place in your life. Let him see you doing spiritual reading, making a morning meditation, etc.
    That will make a greater impression on him, and will actually move him to correct action, compared with all the yelling and strong-arm tactics in the world.

    This advice is hand-tailored for your son because of his particular situation. The fact that he ISN'T a born troublemaker, the fact that he knows deep down certain behavior is wrong (hiding his actions, etc.), the fact that he doesn't have a clear "Catholic" alternative course of action to take, etc.

    It sounds like he's following his dad rather than you for two reasons. A) his path is objectively easier (who'd want to be scrupulous rather than lax?), and B) his dad is a man (whereas you are a woman).

    I especially sympathize with your son's plight of "Ok, who am I supposed to court/marry then?" I remember throwing that question in my own mom's face when I was 22 or so. We went to a traditional Catholic chapel since 1975. But the congregation was only 100 people or so -- I quickly "went through" the handful of eligible young ladies there -- none of them were interested in me -- so I pretty much gave up on finding an existing Catholic. So I pretty much opened up my possibilities to "ANY SINGLE FEMALE ALIVE" -- a dumb move, let me tell you! But at the time, it didn't seem so dumb. I told my mom, "What, do you want me to be lonely the rest of my life?" and she didn't really have anything to respond with.

    Back then, there was no CatholicMatch. Heck, there was barely an Internet. Back in 1999 the Internet was still 80% male, and any kind of social/chat service was 90% male -- we'll call it "the bad old days".

    Miraculously, and by the grace of God, I didn't end up losing my purity *completely* if you catch my drift. But I was certainly going about it all the wrong way, if waiting for marriage was my intention!

    Young people can be very foolish though. Somewhat innocent in their intentions, mixed with a complete lack of wisdom or experience. And highly vulnerable to influence from their peers (and emotions).

    Want to say "thank you"? 
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    Offline MrsZ

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 01:18:23 PM »
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  • Thank  you Matthew.  I just wanted to make clear that neither I or my H has ever yelled or resorted to strong arm tactics, ever, in raising our children.  We don't yell in this family, or threaten ... I was emotionally distraught yesterday, because I was actually really frightened by the potential implications of what I'd discovered.  But those emotions are not anything to act on and frankly, I'm grateful that I do have my H to balance me out in times like these.  

    Also, we pray the Rosary every night, and have for the last 18 months or so.  Our son isn't always here with us ... but when he is, he prays with us.  We also pray before meals (can't seem to get into praying afterward) and I personally have increased daily prayers and going to Confession more often.  As I mentioned, thanks be to God, our son also goes to Mass with most of the time, and tries to go to a Vigil Mass during times when he can't get out of a work or school situation on a Sunday.  So these are all very good things and I am aware and thankful of this.

    I agree with you about kicking him out.  As someone else mentioned, it'd be one thing if he were blatantly, under our roof, doing whatever ... but aside from this one image and some other things like comments from some of these girls on their walls on Facebook .. (I suspect they're all playing games using references about boys being their "bfs" and another girl sending my son a song title that refers to a song with filthy lyrics...) I'm not saying these girls aren't available ... just that this kind of talk and behavior is just the absolute norm amongst everyone in the "world."  I can't just assume the office environment is any better ... I hear about affairs in the workplace constantly ... there is no safe haven "out there."

    And I also thought that it would be a harsh and terrible thing to do to him to kick him out over something that is very slight, concerning, but slight in the scheme of things . I don't know the background of the photo .. I don't know how "set up" it was ... a dare type thing whatever. But then this girl has this as her one and only available profile pic on FB ... so I don't know what it is, and I probably never will.

    Unfortunately there's not much room for error these days when everything is photographed and posted on FB.  

    I will continue praying and I think I should step up fasting and almsgiving ... and working hard to be a better example.  My marriage is a good place to start, I think.

    Offline songbird

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    Need Help - Those Whove Been Parents of 19 Year Olds
    « Reply #14 on: November 11, 2011, 09:27:42 PM »
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  • Been there and done it with a 19 year old Daughter!  She was on drugs and she left the house to do it.  We did not know she was doing drugs til she had an over dose.  She came home as long as she followed rules, get a job and no lying or out she was to go.  She failed on the lying and so the family was gathered to see her go to St Vincent De Paul for a hot and cot.  My husband agreed but yet he was very weak and lukewarm in his catholicism.  He eventually went into mortal sin.  When that happens you work alone.  It hurts alot to be alone disciplining and no one to support you.  Any discipline is on deaf ears.  The children are in confusion and they watch to see how things will turn out.  Our 19 year old said things like, "You are going to throw me out!"  And I replied, "It was your choice!"  They will try to make you feel guilty!  You are actually facing the devil!  She is now age 28 and a CNA for the elderly.  If you have a curfew and you should no matter what age, it is your home! so if they don't keep curfew, you do "tough love" you lock the door.  If they cause a ruckus call the police.  Be sure know one touches or shoves if a fight should transpire. Your child is a danger to the rest of the family.  A bad apple is  not to be with good apples.  Your other children are watching to see just how far you will carry it through.  Whether your husband is with you or not, you must protect the family from immorality.  Do you wish your children to think, "brother does wrong and he is still with us?"  Do expect a fight, not just a disagreement.  If your husband is in mortal sin/lukewarm, you have 2 and not  just son problems!  You must act and tough love is the right thing to do to save yourself from more children in immorality.  Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the right thing to do and the children WILL look up to you years down the road.  By keeping him in the home with his very bad behavior teaches your children wrong ideas and Dad is very important but you can make this move.  If he has keys, change the locks, it just may come to that.  I called the police 3 times on our daughter for trespassing and 3 times, their out!  If your husband does not agree, do what it takes to get your point across and act on it!  No matter what!  Our children saw the mistakes my husband did and his re birth and now if anything comes up and send the children to Dad because he is reborn and he will set them straight the the children look up to him more than ever.  Better late than never!  Thank God for the Precious Blood of Jesus in all the sacraments for without them we are damned.  Songbird