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Author Topic: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage  (Read 3698 times)

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Offline EWallace

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Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
« on: April 27, 2017, 09:23:55 AM »
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  • Hello,

    My husband and I married about 3 years ago in the Church. He is not Catholic, but we dated for many years before getting married and we spoke often about the Catholic teaching regarding sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage. I gave him many opportunities to walk away before we were married. Last night we got into an argument of sorts about our sex life. He wishes that we could engage in sɛҳuąƖ relations that did not result in his climaxing outside what is acceptable. He knows that isn't an option because my faith, but it is frustrating him and actually hurting our sex life. He acknowledges that it would be wrong to ask me to violate my faith. My question is how do I resolve this issue. this is seriously hurting our sex life and if it continues I fear the worse. He isn't interested in taking any Theology of the Body classes or reading any books on it, because he says he understands the reason for the teachings. He says that it's him that needs to change, but I don't see him taking any measures to do so. He also says he feels like a third wheel in our marriage (my faith being the other wheel). I don't want to push my faith onto him because I feel it would backfire at this time. How can I support him without losing myself? How do I fix my marriage? 

    p.s. I should mention that our relationship is great otherwise.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 11:55:15 AM »
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  • I don't understand how your relationship can be "great otherwise" ... if he's not Catholic.  I can't imagine having a great intimate relationship without my wife being Catholic, since that's at the core of who I am and what I care about.

    Additionally, if your relationship will "break down" somehow because he can't satisfy a few of his specific sɛҳuąƖ fantasies, then the relationship (at least on his side) is incredibly shallow.  You can't cooperate with his sinful activities.  Now, if he were to do them anyway, without your cooperation, then you commit no sin.  But if it gets to a point where his sinful activities become regular, then you know before having relations he's likely to do it, then there's a debated question of whether or not you can continue to have sɛҳuąƖ relations even if you know this sinful activity is somewhat likely to occur.  He knows your position and knew it before entering into marriage.  He knows that you can't cooperate with this.  And, at the end of the day, if this destroys your relationship, then your relationship really isn't as "great" as you would like to think.  But you really can't actively agree to these sinful activities.  In other words, you can't "support him" (in this) without losing yourself.  This is not something you can actively support.  He needs to support YOU.  You tell him that you commit mortal sin and cause the death of your own soul.  If he can't sacrifice some of these fantasies for YOUR sake, then he doesn't really love you all that much.

    Alas, these are just some of the problems that arise when you marry a non-Catholic, and you have to bear that cross now.


    Offline EWallace

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 12:23:57 PM »
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  • I don't understand how your relationship can be "great otherwise" ... if he's not Catholic.  I can't imagine having a great intimate relationship without my wife being Catholic, since that's at the core of who I am and what I care about.

    Additionally, if your relationship will "break down" somehow because he can't satisfy a few of his specific sɛҳuąƖ fantasies, then the relationship (at least on his side) is incredibly shallow.  You can't cooperate with his sinful activities.  Now, if he were to do them anyway, without your cooperation, then you commit no sin.  But if it gets to a point where his sinful activities become regular, then you know before having relations he's likely to do it, then there's a debated question of whether or not you can continue to have sɛҳuąƖ relations even if you know this sinful activity is somewhat likely to occur.  He knows your position and knew it before entering into marriage.  He knows that you can't cooperate with this.  And, at the end of the day, if this destroys your relationship, then your relationship really isn't as "great" as you would like to think.  But you really can't actively agree to these sinful activities.  In other words, you can't "support him" (in this) without losing yourself.  This is not something you can actively support.  He needs to support YOU.  You tell him that you commit mortal sin and cause the death of your own soul.  If he can't sacrifice some of these fantasies for YOUR sake, then he doesn't really love you all that much.

    Alas, these are just some of the problems that arise when you marry a non-Catholic, and you have to bear that cross now.
    Thank you for your response. However, it does not address my problem. You seem to have a very negative view of my marriage, and even if my marriage is as shallow as you say, what do I do about it? I entered into a sacramental marriage. As a Catholic I have an obligation to make it work. I am not asking for permission to sin, those actions are completely off the table. If I were seeking permission I wouldn't have come to this forum. So, as a Catholic woman, what can I do to make this marriage succeed? What measures are available to me? I need advice, not a lecture, and I can't undo the past.

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 01:08:14 PM »
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  • Have you tried talking to a good Traditional Catholic Priests with experience dealing with marriage issues? If not, seek one out; if not able to find one, then try to contact Fr. Novak (SSPX) at St. Mary's, Kansas. Or better yet, have your husband contact him.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 01:52:50 PM »
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  • Really sorry to hear about the challenges that you're having, EWallace.


    Quote
    My question is how do I resolve this issue. this is seriously hurting our sex life and if it continues I fear the worse. He isn't interested in taking any Theology of the Body classes or reading any books on it, because he says he understands the reason for the teachings.

    As a way of setting expectations, CathInfo is a traditional Catholic forum.  What that means is that it's members, to some degree or another, are highly critical of post-Vatican II authorities and teachings, up to and including members who regard the teachings as utterly false and their authorities as fake. 
    With that in mind, no one here would recommend Theology of the Body.  In fact, if your husband did take Theology of the Body classes, I would suspect that it would make matters worse, and probably give him ammunition to try to tell you that his deviant desires are actually approved by ToB.  He would have a strong argument to make. 
    While you may have found Ladislaus' comment harsh, there is some very salient truth in what he has to say: the real problem is that your husband isn't Catholic.  He can't be expected to regard, appreciate, or follow Church teaching when he rejects the system itself.  Maybe he does understand the reason for the teachings-- he just doesn't care, because he isn't Catholic.  Not everyone who understands something agrees with it.  Most non-Catholics are very worldly and they have been led to believe that there is no greater good than the satisfaction of their own pleasures.  Even a lot of Catholics believe this. 
    So I don't anticipate you finding a sustainable solution that doesn't involve your husband's conversion.  That means you might have to put up with his requests for a bit longer as he (hopefully) becomes Catholic, and starts to learn to reject the temptations of the world, the flesh, and the devil.  But he needs first to believe that it's actually important that he do reject them.  Until then, I wouldn't expect much to change.  Pray for him, of course.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 02:47:29 PM »
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  • I don't understand how your relationship can be "great otherwise" ... if he's not Catholic.  I can't imagine having a great intimate relationship without my wife being Catholic, since that's at the core of who I am and what I care about.

    Additionally, if your relationship will "break down" somehow because he can't satisfy a few of his specific sɛҳuąƖ fantasies, then the relationship (at least on his side) is incredibly shallow.  You can't cooperate with his sinful activities.  Now, if he were to do them anyway, without your cooperation, then you commit no sin.  But if it gets to a point where his sinful activities become regular, then you know before having relations he's likely to do it, then there's a debated question of whether or not you can continue to have sɛҳuąƖ relations even if you know this sinful activity is somewhat likely to occur.  He knows your position and knew it before entering into marriage.  He knows that you can't cooperate with this.  And, at the end of the day, if this destroys your relationship, then your relationship really isn't as "great" as you would like to think.  But you really can't actively agree to these sinful activities.  In other words, you can't "support him" (in this) without losing yourself.  This is not something you can actively support.  He needs to support YOU.  You tell him that you commit mortal sin and cause the death of your own soul.  If he can't sacrifice some of these fantasies for YOUR sake, then he doesn't really love you all that much.

    Alas, these are just some of the problems that arise when you marry a non-Catholic, and you have to bear that cross now.
    Very well said, Ladislaus. It's about all that CAN be said.

    I guess those with Traditional Catholic seminary training all think more or less alike? I was seriously thinking the same thing this morning when I read this post. If I had responded, my post would have been almost exactly like Ladislaus' post! Especially the opening: "How can you say everything is great, if he's not a Catholic?" That "everything" must consist of incredibly superficial matters.

    There isn't some magic thing you can do -- so there's no "nice" advice we can give that you're going to like. Ladislaus was plenty polite, nice, and to the point. There is no legitimate "sex life" outside the bounds of Catholic morality.

    We assume you are willing to do everything WITHIN the bounds of Catholic morality (i.e., rendering the marriage debt) so that's all you can do. If your husband is not satisfied with that, then there is nothing else you can do. In the worst case scenario, he could leave you, and you would have to spend the rest of your life single. Lesson learned: don't marry a non-Catholic!

    What your husband is asking for is not lawful or legitimate, period. In fact, his demands show evidence of past problems with pornography. Any man who wishes to use women in that way is not loving his wife as Christ loved His Church -- instead, he wishes to degrade, objectify, use, and abuse women for his own pleasure, like a ghetto "gangsta rap" personality.

    As Ladislaus said,
    "Alas, these are just some of the problems that arise when you marry a non-Catholic, and you have to bear that cross now."
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 02:50:54 PM »
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  • I would direct your attention to a thread discussing "marrying in this day and age"

    https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/marrying-in-this-day-in-age/

    Pay particular attention to this post:

    This is the main point here -- all too many Trads fail to make "they're not a solid, devout Catholic" a complete deal-breaker.

    The Catholic Church normally forbids mixed-marriages, requiring a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic, and you still don't get the Nuptial Blessing even if you get that dispensation.

    But how many people take that seriously? Or, how many take that rule in the right spirit? I feel sorry for anyone who looks at the Catholic Church like a mean old fuddy-duddy, a spoil sport, someone out to piss on our parade. On the contrary -- the Church is the Bride of Christ, looking out ONLY for OUR OWN best interests. We should trust Her judgment rather than groan at her rules and restrictions. The same goes for God and His Ten Commandments, but I digress...

    Unless your sweetheart shows every sign of being a devout Catholic, you shouldn't even consider marrying them. It's true that strictly speaking there are no guarantees. But that doesn't mean you can't increase your chances.

    My favorite philosophy: "winners make their own luck". You have to do everything you can. Don't make stupid moves and then blame God, "luck" or "the way it goes" for your misfortunes.

    Yes, strictly speaking a person could fall from grace. And yes, strictly speaking any person COULD convert. But that doesn't mean it's "anything goes" and "anyone's guess" on which marriages will last and which will fail. 

    You want MORAL CERTAINTY that your prospective spouse is a good Catholic, and intends to stay Catholic for life. We can't get scientific certainty, but moral certainty is sufficient to make a prudential judgment, which is what the decision to marry is.

    But as with any prudential judgment, the more information you have the better. That is what DATING is for -- not for "getting away with as much as you can", not for titillating the senses, not for "fun", but to really get to know a person so you can make a good judgment on whether or not they are good marriage material.

    It's not that difficult, and certainly not impossible, to get to know someone well in a few months. Just have deep conversations, meet their friends and especially family members, and keep your eyes open. If you are used to loving the truth and embracing it, you will find it as always. But if you're used to deceit, especially lying to your own self, then beware!

    - Matthew
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    Online josefamenendez

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 03:32:28 PM »
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  • Your marriage may be licit and valid in the Church, but I can't see how it is sacramental with a non- Catholic husband. Did you have a Nuptual Mass? He certainly couldn't participate in the Sacrament itself. I am no theologian and am just wondering.


    Online josefamenendez

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 03:38:16 PM »
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  • Oops!- Sorry. I guess marriage is Sacramental between two baptised people, - I guess the other person does not have to profess Catholicism. My bad.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 04:32:25 PM »
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  • The key to the problem - you have given the answer here:


    Quote
    He says that it's him that needs to change, but I don't see him taking any measures to do so. He also says he feels like a third wheel in our marriage (my faith being the other wheel). I don't want to push my faith onto him because I feel it would backfire at this time.

    .
    Not a nice way to express it (third wheel) but ultimately your faith is more important. He does not understand the end (purpose) of Marriage. 

    .
    Faith is a gift from God. It cannot be "pushed onto" anyone. However there are others who have been in a similar situation and have resolved the issue. Constancy on your part and prayer are the hope you have.
    .

    I wonder what, if any, are his religious beliefs, and what is blocking him from seeking out union with you through the Faith. Do you ever pray together?  

    .
    I suspect that you are in the conciliar church, for the simple reason that you think that reading “The Theology of the Body” would be a help. Far from it, as Mythrandylan has pointed out.

    .
    Also, do you have any children? 

    .
    I will pray for you and your husband.

    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline EWallace

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 06:58:57 PM »
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  • I wonder what, if any, are his religious beliefs, and what is blocking him from seeking out union with you through the Faith. Do you ever pray together?

    .
    I suspect that you are in the conciliar church, for the simple reason that you think that reading “The Theology of the Body” would be a help. Far from it, as Mythrandylan has pointed out.

    .
    Also, do you have any children?

    .
    I will pray for you and your husband.
    He was raised Southern Baptist and still considers himself Christian. However, his religious upbringing seemed to have left a bad taste in his mouth. Oddly enough he respects the Catholic church more because he sees it as intellectual honest and thoughtful. He was brought up in the kind of "because we said so" attitude to faith reasoning. We do not pray together, he is still very resistant to regular religious practice, though he does accompany me to church sometimes (I know many reading this thread are probably wondering why I married him, I had many reasons, none of which matter now because the deed is done and I can't/won't just leave). We do not currently have children.
    Thank you for your prayers and thoughtful response, I found it quite helpful.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 10:50:19 PM »
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  • Dear EWallace, thank you for answering my questions, and I am pleased they have been of some help.

    Did you see this posted yesterday on this other interesting thread?
    https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/marrying-in-this-day-in-age/msg548861/#msg548861

    Not to say it will take 20 years, but to give hope. At least if he is prepared to go to Mass with you it shows some goodwill on his part. I can understand a lot of the problems with the Baptist religion. Maybe a "safe" prayer like the Our Father, or a Glory be would be a start, and they would not offend his Baptist sensibilities. What about Grace before meals. Every prayer will help to bring you closer to each other. Then one day there may be a breakthrough.

    God bless you.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline St.Patrick

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 03:54:02 AM »
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  • “I salute you, I adore you, I embrace you, O adorable Cross of my Saviour.
     Protect us, guard us, save us. Jesus loved you so much, following His example, I love you. By your holy image calm our fears, that we may feel only peace and confidence.”

    Prayer given to Marie Julie Jahenny

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 06:04:10 AM »
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  • Here is something for you and your husband to think about.... married Christians don't have "sex"or "sɛҳuąƖ relations".  
    We make love because our marriage is blessed by God.   Your marriage is blessed by God.   We are supposed to love and obey God in everything we do including when we make love.
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Need advice about sɛҳuąƖ intimacy within marriage
    « Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 06:37:30 AM »
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  • How do I fix my marriage?
    EWallace,

    I am sorry that you are having to go through this...

    Prayer, penance, patience and fasting are the best means to bring one's spouse over to the understanding of the Faith...
    You shall be in my prayers!   :pray: :pray: :pray:

    Be strong and continue in your good efforts!

    Keep fighting the good fight and may God bless you!  

    Rita   :)
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/