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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Deusvult on January 07, 2025, 12:03:59 PM

Title: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Deusvult on January 07, 2025, 12:03:59 PM
Before my conversion, I often took psychedelic drugs (mostly LSD or psylocibin) and what I experienced during these experiences cannot be described with human words. From my experience, I have the impression that psychedelics introduce us in some way into the spiritual world. Most testimonies say the same thing. It is either Heaven or Hell. I do not know if some here have already done it. Before my conversion, I took LSD in order to find the Truth through the philosophical illuminations that I lived during each experience. One day, I took three hits (maybe 200 ug), and I saw things so beautiful that I will never forget it. I also understood intuitively the mystery of divine providence. I did not have faith yet. Afterwards, I feel converted, about 5 months later. I don't understand why I experienced all this. It's like I tasted a piece of Heaven, it's really strange. However, I am well aware that it is not recommended, on the contrary that it is dangerous, especially if you have a bad trip (the experience of a bad trip, which fortunately I have never had, is apparently living in Hell, an impression that it is forever etc.)

In summary, I wonder why in my life it seems to have been beneficial. I know that there are LSD therapies in Switzerland, and it seems to have success in curing certain mental disorders. What do you think?

(I haven't taken LSD for about 10 years, the time of my conversion)
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Matthew on January 07, 2025, 12:16:32 PM
Drugs (natural OR artificial, God-made or man-made) have NOTHING to do with enhancing our spiritual life, giving us a taste or stronger connection to the spiritual/supernatural world, etc.

Drugs affect your brain in a physical manner, period. Dogs could have the same experience taking LSD, since they also have meat brains. But they don't have immortal souls. Dogs and humans also react similarly to sleeping medication, both can dream, etc.

Drugs are 100% in the domain of the MEAT WORLD (physical body), the natural world.

Drugs, being a 100% physical substance, have no connection themselves to the world of the Supernatural. So they can't help hybrid beings like man (half spiritual, half meat) to access the Supernatural. No one gives what he doesn't have. That is also why the world of silicon (computers) will never taste being human (reason, free will).

Unless you are a New Ager, there is NO connection whatsoever between drugs and the supernatural, spirituality, other dimensions, etc.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Mark 79 on January 07, 2025, 12:16:45 PM
Your personal testimony is appreciated and the dangers of psychedelics are real.

I'd argue that there is a connection to the spiritual world… a connection of dangerous risks.… Ouija boards, Transcendental Meditation, Yoga, EFT, and psychedelics and everything and anything that impairs the will … all carry the risks of being receptive to demonic influence.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Giovanni Berto on January 07, 2025, 12:26:30 PM
As far as I know, these things are the creation of your mind.

Our mind can imagine beautiful things, probably based on our sensorial experiences.

There are many great works or art that were created by faithless people. The human creature is capable of doing many great things in the material world, as God allows it. These are merely human works. Of course God created all that is good and we merely transform what He created, but it does not require great spiritual enlighment or the state of grace to be able to imagine or create things that are materially pleasant.

Imagine how beautiful God actually is, if a mere "trip" made you think that you were in Heaven. You can actually use this to encourage you to be a better person and to be sure to get to Heaven.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Matthew on January 07, 2025, 12:29:18 PM
Quote from: Mark 79 on January 07, 2025, 12:16:45 PM
Your personal testimony is appreciated and the dangers of psychedelics are real.

I'd argue that there is a connection to the spiritual world… a connection of dangerous risks.… Ouija boards, Transcendental Meditation, Yoga, EFT, and psychedelics all carry the risks of being receptive to demonic influence.

Yes, and remember the devil can appear as an "angel of light". He will attract you with whatever is necessary to get to the ultimate goal (perdition). Not everyone is tempted by pure evil. In fact, the devil knows quite well that for many, a temptation to a vile mortal sin would only spark revulsion. The devil isn't that stupid. (I have to literally give the devil his due here.)

For many Trads, the devil would instead push you to greater "doctrinal purity" unto isolation and sins against charity. He might tempt you to excessive fasting or other spiritual practices. He would *incite you* to attack good Trad priests -- with a good excuse of course. He'd get you to further isolate yourself and end up a home aloner, etc. Then he could "finish you off" years later at his leisure.

But a crude attack like a prostitute's invite? That wouldn't even be tempting to every man, nevermind actually succeeding in causing a mortal sin.

You should follow the Catholic Church's teaching on curious arts, spiritism, etc. as well as the Catholic Church's interpretation of how one can violate the First Commandment.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Mark 79 on January 07, 2025, 12:35:04 PM
Matthew alluded to the neurochemistry and neurophysiology of psychedelics. It is a fair generalization to say that hallucinogens alter the usual "filtering" between cortical command-and-control (higher intellectual function) and sub-cortical activity (sensory, motor, autonomic, and lower processing).  While that alteration may be perceived as an enhancement, the perception is not the reality.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Deusvult on January 07, 2025, 12:55:49 PM
Quote from: Matthew on January 07, 2025, 12:16:32 PM
Drugs (natural OR artificial, God-made or man-made) have NOTHING to do with enhancing our spiritual life, giving us a taste or stronger connection to the spiritual/supernatural world, etc.

Drugs affect your brain in a physical manner, period. Dogs could have the same experience taking LSD, since they also have meat brains. But they don't have immortal souls. Dogs and humans also react similarly to sleeping medication, both can dream, etc.

Drugs are 100% in the domain of the MEAT WORLD (physical body), the natural world.

Drugs, being a 100% physical substance, have no connection themselves to the world of the Supernatural. So they can't help hybrid beings like man (half spiritual, half meat) to access the Supernatural. No one gives what he doesn't have. That is also why the world of silicon (computers) will never taste being human (reason, free will).

Unless you are a New Ager, there is NO connection whatsoever between drugs and the supernatural, spirituality, other dimensions, etc.
I am not a New Ager, rest assured.
I am just sincerely wondering why I experienced all this.
I agree that LSD is simply a chemical molecule that acts in the brain. Yoga is also simply body positions, and yet we say that there is really something spiritual behind it. When King Saul went to consult the pythoness, he used a form of the occult, but yet it was really Samuel who appeared to him.
My experiences were so intense that I came to the conclusion that a perfect Being really exists and that he governs all things.
Did God have used or allowed that by an evil means (LSD) I am directed to him? When I took psychedelics, it was only to find the Truth, so perhaps God had mercy on me because my intention was right and he used this evil means as a path to Him? I am only speculating.


Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Stubborn on January 07, 2025, 02:06:30 PM
I'm thinking God wants us to find Him under our own power using our own free will, not from booze or drugs of any kind. Think about all those who die and find themselves face to face with God in a drug induced state, you can be sure God is not pleased with those people at that time.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Ladislaus on January 07, 2025, 02:34:41 PM
I'm a bit on the fence about the effect of the drug, i.e. as to how it worked and what it did, but it's 100% immoral and illicit in either case, since not only is it grave sin (without proportionately grave justification) to lose control of one's higher faculties, but this type of experience can EASILY lend itself to diabolical intrusion, i.e. Satan masquerading as an angel of light.  Now, those who have reported NDEs (though they must be taken with a huge grain of salt) do in fact report amazing increases in their ability to see and to know things, experiencing ranges of colors and sounds that are beyond what the senses can experience here on earth, so it's possible that the physical brain does impose some constraints on the operation not only of the higher faculties, but even of the lower sensible faculties (i.e. senses) that might be lifted or somehow short-circuited by the drugs, but there's no excuse to mess with such things.

I agree with Matthew that the drugs affect the physical, and that we primarily operate in the higher faculties, but those faculties are also above normal perception and are completely immaterial (not having anything to do with sensible things such as sights, sounds, etc.).  I do believe that our faculties are somewhat limited or constrained by physical matter and are capable of doing much more on their own.  Yet there's no way of knowing that's what went on here, and it's a huge risk that the devil will get involved.

So, for instance, my eyes are junk, but if removed from the defects of my body, I'm sure that I'd be able to "see" (however that works without eyeballs) once separated from my body.  There have been some cases of NDEs where blind people came back and reported in great detail things they saw and could only have seen (and not heard about), and other people who also reported poor vision but then stated they could see amazing (almost microscopic) detail from incredible distances.  So there MAY be something to it, but it's not for us to find out.  If we excel in sanctity and God wills to give us the grace of elevating our prayer to that of infused contemplation (where he acts directly upon our faculties rather than through the mediation of the senses and the physical organs of sense), that's one thing.  But this stuff, the drugs, is to be strictly avoided.

I do believe that there's some distinction between even the intrinsic capabilities of our senses and the capabilities of our typica sense ORGANS.  In other words, when we die, and before we've been rejoined with our bodies at the Resurrection of the Dead, I imagine we'd still be able to "see", albeit lacking the usual organs of sense, i.e. physical eyeballs.  We can only speculated about how that works, but I can't imagine we'd be blind and deaf ... similar to how the ancient Greeks thought of Hades.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Yeti on January 07, 2025, 02:47:00 PM
Quote from: Matthew on January 07, 2025, 12:16:32 PM
Drugs (natural OR artificial, God-made or man-made) have NOTHING to do with enhancing our spiritual life, giving us a taste or stronger connection to the spiritual/supernatural world, etc.

Drugs affect your brain in a physical manner, period. Dogs could have the same experience taking LSD, since they also have meat brains. But they don't have immortal souls. Dogs and humans also react similarly to sleeping medication, both can dream, etc.

Drugs are 100% in the domain of the MEAT WORLD (physical body), the natural world.

Drugs, being a 100% physical substance, have no connection themselves to the world of the Supernatural. So they can't help hybrid beings like man (half spiritual, half meat) to access the Supernatural. No one gives what he doesn't have. That is also why the world of silicon (computers) will never taste being human (reason, free will).

Unless you are a New Ager, there is NO connection whatsoever between drugs and the supernatural, spirituality, other dimensions, etc.
.

This is a fantastic response. I agree with every word of this.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Ladislaus on January 07, 2025, 02:51:47 PM
Just thinking out loud here.

So, when we see, there are various light waves coming from an object, either reflected or generated by the object itself, and these light waves come in different wavelengths, which then some combination of the eyeball (or organ of sight) and the brain, interpret as different "colors".  Some people are color blind and can't see them all.  Various animals see some wavelengths but not others.  In fact, there are many wavelengths of light that are there but that we cannot see, e.g. infrared, ultraviolet, the different kinds of radiation, etc.  If we had more of these "cones" in our eyeballs, we might see them, and then the brain might interpret them as even different "colors" (which is an interpretation of some intelligibility that allows us to distinguish one from the other).  But, then, I imagine, that the soul (both the higher faculties and the lower sensible faculties ... since there in fact a "sensible part of the soul", in addition to the higher faculties) somehow can sense and "know" (turn into some intelligible -- immaterial -- form) ALL the different wavelengths of light, radiation, etc.  AND it would sense / know about every photon (or wave or whatever) of light being emitted by something, and it would know / hear every soundwave (even if it's tiny and inaudible by our current sense organs for hearing, e.g. the ear), whereas our sense organ currently limits or constrains our ability to hear sounds that are either two "low" in volume, or perhaps blended in with other waves, or too high or low in pitch, etc.  So not only is there light, but sound, and all manner of other sensible / corporeal reality all around us that the sensible parts of our souls would be able to perceive directly when removed from the constraints of our physical sense organs, but we also wouldn't be limited by things such as "distance" from the object, etc.  So, based on these considerations, I believe that in theory, it's theoretically possible that some drug could free us from the constrains of our physical sense organs and provide a more direct and intelligible perception of reality ... though there's no evidence or proof that that is what is happening with these drugs, and that the drugs are simply lifting these constraints vs. creating experiences by directly acting upon our brains, which are the receptors and interpreters of all this perceived sense information.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Ladislaus on January 07, 2025, 02:56:39 PM
While it's true that drugs act upon the "meat world," I think we may be forgetting about the sensible part of the soul (which remains even when we're separated from out meat suits after death, and before the Resurrection of the Dead).  Is it possible that the drug could effectively disable the "meat", causing the sensible part of the souls to achieve some degree of separation from it similar to if the flesh had died, i.e. such as one would experience after suffering "death", say, due to traumatic injury.  I don't believe that we know enough to rule it out, but one cannot risk it, and it could also be that the phenomenon described did not result from a separation of the sensible part of the soul from the meat suit, but rather from an direct action of the drug on the brain, and that the brain merely perceived something cause by the drug rather than as connected to and perceiving objective reality.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: josefamenendez on January 08, 2025, 09:48:45 AM
I think psychadelic drugs can open portals, and even if you have had a "good" experience, God forbids us to go to these interdimensional places. 
Even if you think what you experienced was positive, it has opened your soul to any type of spirit that may have wandered in.  You can never really know what it may have done to depth of your soul until you attempt to expell it.
I always think it is a good idea to have a minor exorcism ( deliverence prayers) by a traditional priest if you can find one who will do it, if you feel "exposed".  They do not need the Bishop's permission to say these prayers. It's part of their minor orders.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Gray2023 on January 08, 2025, 02:22:39 PM
Trying to organize my thoughts.

1) Saints have described supernatural things happening to them, that cannot be explained.  (living on the Eucharist alone for years, levitating, healing others, knowing things they should not know, bi-locating ...  etc)

2) Spiritualists make things happen because they think they have some sort of ability and that if they do A then they get B.  Most likely they are being helped by demonic forces.

3) Tools such as LSD or Marijuana or Alcohol or prescribed drugs or tapping or acupressure or acupuncture or breathing certain ways or cold baths or hot springs .... etc.  Somehow allow some strange effects.  Why is this?

This is why one must get close to God by using the Sacraments and pray and penance and duty, then God will work freely with that person in any way God chooses.  Using the tools to get to God is not an option.  In fact, the closer you get to God the less you will probably need any tools.

Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: forlorn on January 08, 2025, 04:48:01 PM
I actually agree with what's described in this tweet, even though it's written like a joke (the author is indeed a Christian, however). Humans can become possessed by demons - hence the need for exorcism - and drugs lower our defenses and open ourselves up to demonic possession more easily. There's a reason why some of these pagan societies, those in Meso-America in particular, were so horrendously cruel - they were serving demons. Why? Their priestly classes (and likely much of the laity) consistently took drugs which opened themselves up to demonic possession.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GfyXRopXwAALqH3?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Seraphina on January 08, 2025, 04:53:05 PM
WHY would any true Catholic think an “experience” under the influence of a mind altering drug believe it enhanced his spiritual life? It’s a pagan practice. 
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: St Giles on January 08, 2025, 07:18:28 PM
Quote from: Seraphina on January 08, 2025, 04:53:05 PM
WHY would any true Catholic think an “experience” under the influence of a mind altering drug believe it enhanced his spiritual life? It’s a pagan practice.
Because God can bring good from evil. Because we don't fully understand all of God's creation, and it's possible that there is something beneficial there. Because there are many cases of it having led to people's conversion or helped them understand some spiritual problem. It also often can lead to spiritual problems if abused or used after the main benefit has been aquired. It may have some use as a medicine, but if the Church teaches that these things are forbidden, then they are. It doesn't mean it was a sin while someone was ignorant of Church teaching and the dangers involved.

I would argue that sleep is a mind altering condition of the body that impairs the will and causes loss of control of ones faculties, and it can be abused if someone chooses to sleep too much, but sleep is not evil of itself.

There is a substance from magic mushrooms that in sub hallucinogen doses may help faster and fuller recovery for certain stroke survivors, because of it's ability to help the brain form new connections to repair and reroute around the damage.

I think some of these substances may help the mind to think better in certain ways too complex for me to describe right now, but in short it may be like controlled (if you chose to) vivid dreaming. I have never used any such substances, so I only speak from accounts I've heard.
Quote from: Deusvult on January 07, 2025, 12:55:49 PM
I am not a New Ager, rest assured.
I am just sincerely wondering why I experienced all this.
I agree that LSD is simply a chemical molecule that acts in the brain. Yoga is also simply body positions, and yet we say that there is really something spiritual behind it. When King Saul went to consult the pythoness, he used a form of the occult, but yet it was really Samuel who appeared to him.
My experiences were so intense that I came to the conclusion that a perfect Being really exists and that he governs all things.
Did God have used or allowed that by an evil means (LSD) I am directed to him? When I took psychedelics, it was only to find the Truth, so perhaps God had mercy on me because my intention was right and he used this evil means as a path to Him? I am only speculating.
Be thankful for God's gifts, and now stay away from drugs. Thanks for sharing your story. I find this a very interesting topic.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Deusvult on January 09, 2025, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 07, 2025, 02:51:47 PM
Just thinking out loud here.

So, when we see, there are various light waves coming from an object, either reflected or generated by the object itself, and these light waves come in different wavelengths, which then some combination of the eyeball (or organ of sight) and the brain, interpret as different "colors".  Some people are color blind and can't see them all.  Various animals see some wavelengths but not others.  In fact, there are many wavelengths of light that are there but that we cannot see, e.g. infrared, ultraviolet, the different kinds of radiation, etc.  If we had more of these "cones" in our eyeballs, we might see them, and then the brain might interpret them as even different "colors" (which is an interpretation of some intelligibility that allows us to distinguish one from the other).  But, then, I imagine, that the soul (both the higher faculties and the lower sensible faculties ... since there in fact a "sensible part of the soul", in addition to the higher faculties) somehow can sense and "know" (turn into some intelligible -- immaterial -- form) ALL the different wavelengths of light, radiation, etc.  AND it would sense / know about every photon (or wave or whatever) of light being emitted by something, and it would know / hear every soundwave (even if it's tiny and inaudible by our current sense organs for hearing, e.g. the ear), whereas our sense organ currently limits or constrains our ability to hear sounds that are either two "low" in volume, or perhaps blended in with other waves, or too high or low in pitch, etc.  So not only is there light, but sound, and all manner of other sensible / corporeal reality all around us that the sensible parts of our souls would be able to perceive directly when removed from the constraints of our physical sense organs, but we also wouldn't be limited by things such as "distance" from the object, etc.  So, based on these considerations, I believe that in theory, it's theoretically possible that some drug could free us from the constrains of our physical sense organs and provide a more direct and intelligible perception of reality ... though there's no evidence or proof that that is what is happening with these drugs, and that the drugs are simply lifting these constraints vs. creating experiences by directly acting upon our brains, which are the receptors and interpreters of all this perceived sense information.
Whay your said here really makes sense, from my experiences.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: OABrownson1876 on January 09, 2025, 01:56:31 PM
In high school, prior to my traditional Catholic conversion, a buddy and myself did some red microdot LSD on Friday 13th.  Bad idea. My buddy started hearing voices and I said, "David are you hearing voices,?" to which he replied, "Yes, I am hearing voices that say, 'kill, kill, kill'."  I heard the same voices.  Luckily, I pulled out my St. Joseph Edition Bible and started reading it out loud, and the voices left.  We also saw angels outside flying through the air.  I am convinced that hallucigenic agents will very often open the door to the demonic.    

I knew one guy, his uncle did one hit of Grateful Dead LSD, and he thought spiders were all over his body.  He tried to get the spiders off with a steak knife.  The guy ended up stabbing himself to death. 
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Seraphina on January 09, 2025, 02:45:44 PM
Just because God can bring good from evil does not make evil good. Should we sin that grace may abound? 
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Mark 79 on January 09, 2025, 06:19:12 PM
Quote from: Seraphina on January 09, 2025, 02:45:44 PM
Just because God can bring good from evil does not make evil good. Should we sin that grace may abound?
Jorge answers: "Yes!!!" https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-rebbe-explains-hasidic-stratagem-of.html


the Rebbe explains the Hasidic stratagem of “descent for sake of ascent”


(https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644im_/https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-267Dj0uOlGs/WkfI1v9x-iI/AAAAAAAANvI/U0AXcyT6A1obJnED0G8odo4AwQKJQshUQCLcBGAs/s200/El%2Brebe%2Bcon%2Btefilim.jpg) (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-267Dj0uOlGs/WkfI1v9x-iI/AAAAAAAANvI/U0AXcyT6A1obJnED0G8odo4AwQKJQshUQCLcBGAs/s1600/El%2Brebe%2Bcon%2Btefilim.jpg)


As regular readers of this blog know, Francis is into all things Judaic, especially Chasidism.  Their doctrines creep out here and there in Francis’ sermons and docuмents.  One of the things which Francis does with regularity is to invert the teachings of the Church.  An example of this is the use of the term ‘pharisee’ which he applies to his enemies, who are not open to тαℓмυdic Judaism and Francis’ anti-Catholic machinations.  Another example is his favorite blasphemous painting, White Crucifixion (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2014/05/update-on-white-crucifixion.html).  Francis shows his hand, when he inverts Catholic doctrine, as a modernist (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2014/12/modernists-are-really-traditionalists.html) change agent (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2014/03/francis-is-change-agent.html) who is simply following the dictates of ‘The Rebbe’ to be (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/03/noahide-proselytizing-rabbi-riskin.html), “modern on the outside and Chabad on the inside.” One of the most blatant examples is Francis teaching (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/where-francis-doctrine-originates.html) the тαℓмυdic formula: Yeridah Tzorech Aliyah (“decent for sake of ascent”).  This teaching simply means that one has to descend into sin, which paradoxically has a positive status in Hasidism, in order to ascend to new heights.  This is done because the god of тαℓмυdic Judaism is one of opposites — a hermaphrodite god (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2007/06/vatican-instills-double-mind.html) of good/evil.  In the Hasidic lore, tzaddiks (saints or righteous people) wrestle not with evil but with goodness as they descend into sin in this process in order to ascend into righteousness.  Yeridah Tzorech Aliyah is one of the foundational beliefs of Orthodox тαℓмυdic Judaism along with Tikun Olam.  In the later belief the rabbis have the chutzpah to state that God made creation imperfect and the тαℓмυdic Jєωs are to correct his work.

The Hasidism of Francis’ mind is also shown when he says such things as, (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/francis-gnostic-gospel.html) “[Jesus] made himself the devil” and (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/03/another-day-another-blasphemous-joke.html) “the Holy Trinity [is] arguing behind closed doors but on the outside they give the picture of unity.”  Who else sees Jesus as a devil or God as a bunch of arguing rabbis other than a тαℓмυdist?  Whether he his parroting the ideas of Heschel (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/reading-francis-through-heschel.html), Levinas (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-hermeneutics-of-тαℓмυdic-alchemical.html), Buber (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/06/francis-kabbalistic-gnostic-god-man.html), Wiesel (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2016/07/elie-wiesel-pope-francis-rich-orthodox.html), a dead rebbe from the Steppes (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/francis-hasidic-concept-of-god-of.html), or having over rabbis as guests (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/09/how-many-books-on-тαℓмυdic-judaism-does.html) who often gift him with books (Gluck (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/05/francis-adds-copy-of-mystic-tales-from.html) & Steinsaltz (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2016/12/guess-who-had-private-audience-with.html)) there’s an excellent chance it’s comes from the Baal Shem Tov and his cult in one manner or another.

In the video clip below the late Chabad Lubavitcher rabbi, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, explains why Hasids should descend (into sin) in order to ascend — they are hunters getting ready to kill their prey.  Another late Chasidic rabbi, Abraham Heschel (of Vatican II’s Nostra Aetate), in a 1965 interview with Ma'ariv explained exactly whom the prey were (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://books.google.com/books?id=MYHmbLAm_csC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=I+want+to+attack+their+souls.+Today,+there+is+no+longer+any+place+for+religious+wars+as+such.&source=bl&ots=UNNbhGeVdI&sig=YQlapT5ywlHGEbSM0bXgdN_MkaI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9hGoVOLRJtWzyAT0yoCYAw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=I want to attack their souls. Today%2C there is no longer any place for religious wars as), “There are those who would like to attack [Christians] bodies. I want to attack their souls.”  The elevation which takes place is one which will incorporate the prey’s soul into the of cult тαℓмυdic Judaism and worship of their demonic hermaphrodite god.  It’s a total inversion of Catholicism, the religion instituted by Jesus the Christ.  So why is Francis teaching it (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/where-francis-doctrine-originates.html)?


Moving Back to Move Forward (1980)

video source:  https://tinyurl.com/2n5n8jey (https://tinyurl.com/2n5n8jey) 
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Giovanni Berto on January 09, 2025, 06:54:55 PM
Quote from: Mark 79 on January 09, 2025, 06:19:12 PM
Jorge answers: "Yes!!!" https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-rebbe-explains-hasidic-stratagem-of.html


the Rebbe explains the Hasidic stratagem of “descent for sake of ascent”


(https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644im_/https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-267Dj0uOlGs/WkfI1v9x-iI/AAAAAAAANvI/U0AXcyT6A1obJnED0G8odo4AwQKJQshUQCLcBGAs/s200/El%2Brebe%2Bcon%2Btefilim.jpg) (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-267Dj0uOlGs/WkfI1v9x-iI/AAAAAAAANvI/U0AXcyT6A1obJnED0G8odo4AwQKJQshUQCLcBGAs/s1600/El%2Brebe%2Bcon%2Btefilim.jpg)


As regular readers of this blog know, Francis is into all things Judaic, especially Chasidism.  Their doctrines creep out here and there in Francis’ sermons and docuмents.  One of the things which Francis does with regularity is to invert the teachings of the Church.  An example of this is the use of the term ‘pharisee’ which he applies to his enemies, who are not open to тαℓмυdic Judaism and Francis’ anti-Catholic machinations.  Another example is his favorite blasphemous painting, White Crucifixion (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2014/05/update-on-white-crucifixion.html).  Francis shows his hand, when he inverts Catholic doctrine, as a modernist (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2014/12/modernists-are-really-traditionalists.html) change agent (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2014/03/francis-is-change-agent.html) who is simply following the dictates of ‘The Rebbe’ to be (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/03/noahide-proselytizing-rabbi-riskin.html), “modern on the outside and Chabad on the inside.” One of the most blatant examples is Francis teaching (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/where-francis-doctrine-originates.html) the тαℓмυdic formula: Yeridah Tzorech Aliyah (“decent for sake of ascent”).  This teaching simply means that one has to descend into sin, which paradoxically has a positive status in Hasidism, in order to ascend to new heights.  This is done because the god of тαℓмυdic Judaism is one of opposites — a hermaphrodite god (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2007/06/vatican-instills-double-mind.html) of good/evil.  In the Hasidic lore, tzaddiks (saints or righteous people) wrestle not with evil but with goodness as they descend into sin in this process in order to ascend into righteousness.  Yeridah Tzorech Aliyah is one of the foundational beliefs of Orthodox тαℓмυdic Judaism along with Tikun Olam.  In the later belief the rabbis have the chutzpah to state that God made creation imperfect and the тαℓмυdic Jєωs are to correct his work.

The Hasidism of Francis’ mind is also shown when he says such things as, (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/francis-gnostic-gospel.html) “[Jesus] made himself the devil” and (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/03/another-day-another-blasphemous-joke.html) “the Holy Trinity [is] arguing behind closed doors but on the outside they give the picture of unity.”  Who else sees Jesus as a devil or God as a bunch of arguing rabbis other than a тαℓмυdist?  Whether he his parroting the ideas of Heschel (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/reading-francis-through-heschel.html), Levinas (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-hermeneutics-of-тαℓмυdic-alchemical.html), Buber (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/06/francis-kabbalistic-gnostic-god-man.html), Wiesel (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2016/07/elie-wiesel-pope-francis-rich-orthodox.html), a dead rebbe from the Steppes (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/francis-hasidic-concept-of-god-of.html), or having over rabbis as guests (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/09/how-many-books-on-тαℓмυdic-judaism-does.html) who often gift him with books (Gluck (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/05/francis-adds-copy-of-mystic-tales-from.html) & Steinsaltz (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2016/12/guess-who-had-private-audience-with.html)) there’s an excellent chance it’s comes from the Baal Shem Tov and his cult in one manner or another.

In the video clip below the late Chabad Lubavitcher rabbi, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, explains why Hasids should descend (into sin) in order to ascend — they are hunters getting ready to kill their prey.  Another late Chasidic rabbi, Abraham Heschel (of Vatican II’s Nostra Aetate), in a 1965 interview with Ma'ariv explained exactly whom the prey were (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/https://books.google.com/books?id=MYHmbLAm_csC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=I+want+to+attack+their+souls.+Today,+there+is+no+longer+any+place+for+religious+wars+as+such.&source=bl&ots=UNNbhGeVdI&sig=YQlapT5ywlHGEbSM0bXgdN_MkaI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9hGoVOLRJtWzyAT0yoCYAw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=I want to attack their souls. Today%2C there is no longer any place for religious wars as), “There are those who would like to attack [Christians] bodies. I want to attack their souls.”  The elevation which takes place is one which will incorporate the prey’s soul into the of cult тαℓмυdic Judaism and worship of their demonic hermaphrodite god.  It’s a total inversion of Catholicism, the religion instituted by Jesus the Christ.  So why is Francis teaching it (https://web.archive.org/web/20191011112644/http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/01/where-francis-doctrine-originates.html)?


Moving Back to Move Forward (1980)

video source:  https://tinyurl.com/2n5n8jey (https://tinyurl.com/2n5n8jey) 

Were you responsible for the Call me Jorge blog too? It was excellent.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Mark 79 on January 09, 2025, 11:03:52 PM
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on January 09, 2025, 06:54:55 PM
Were you responsible for the Call me Jorge blog too? It was excellent.
No. Neither was I responsible for the Maurice Pinay blog. I admire their work. Truly first rate!
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Ladislaus on January 10, 2025, 06:31:31 AM
Quote from: Seraphina on January 09, 2025, 02:45:44 PM
Just because God can bring good from evil does not make evil good. Should we sin that grace may abound?

Yes, since that's what the Taddie clergy told everyone . . that you can do evil to prevent greater evil, vote for and participate in the empowerment of a pro abortion, pro sodomite, pro genocide Jew-puppet to prevent an (arguably) slightly worse one from getting in.  So you can do any evil you want to prevent greater evil.  Muh Trad clergy told us so.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Deusvult on January 10, 2025, 09:20:45 AM
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 10, 2025, 06:31:31 AM
Yes, since that's what the Taddie clergy told everyone . . that you can do evil to prevent greater evil, vote for and participate in the empowerment of a pro abortion, pro sodomite, pro genocide Jєω-puppet to prevent an (arguably) slightly worse one from getting in.  So you can do any evil you want to prevent greater evil.  Muh Trad clergy told us so.
I think it's important to precise that we can do any physical evil (for example war), but never moral evil (sin itself), witch is always contrary to the will of God.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Ladislaus on January 10, 2025, 09:48:41 AM
Quote from: Deusvult on January 10, 2025, 09:20:45 AM
I think it's important to precise that we can do any physical evil (for example war), but never moral evil (sin itself), witch is always contrary to the will of God.

So, the term "evil" in the context of moral theology always includes the notion of moral evil.  Just war, for instance, is not evil.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: josefamenendez on January 11, 2025, 06:39:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jWsPYqd.png)
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 11, 2025, 08:00:21 PM
Re:  Aaron Rogers, drugs and the 'hat man'....as the saying goes...Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I've seen Rogers leave the field and hold up the 'devil horns' sign many times.  I think he's dabbled in the occult much more than simple drugs.  Yet, even God, in His infinite mercy, gives these types of people a view into their future...a view into hell...a view of demons...as this 'hat man' is, obviously.  I hope Rogers wakes up before it's too late.
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Giovanni Berto on January 11, 2025, 08:21:22 PM
Quote from: josefamenendez on January 11, 2025, 06:39:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jWsPYqd.png)

In this picture it looks like he is seeing something strange right there in the field. Look at his eyes. 
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Seraphina on January 30, 2025, 03:47:52 AM
Quote from: Seraphina on January 09, 2025, 02:45:44 PM
Just because God can bring good from evil does not make evil good. Should we sin that grace may abound?
Lad, Giovanni, Mark, in answer to your responses, I’m quoting St. Paul. 
 Check Romans 6:1. Read it in context.
It’s obvious that I am no fan of Jorge or his false V2, sinodal religion. 
Title: Re: My experience with psychedelic drugs
Post by: Mark 79 on February 01, 2025, 04:34:50 PM
Quote from: Seraphina on January 30, 2025, 03:47:52 AM
Lad, Giovanni, Mark, in answer to your responses, I’m quoting St. Paul.
 Check Romans 6:1. Read it in context.
It’s obvious that I am no fan of Jorge or his false V2, sinodal religion.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, so what are you trying to say?

"In context" it seems to me that St. Paul emphatically responds "God forbid!" in rejection of meatsack-from-hell jorge's тαℓмυdic Yeridah Tzorech Aliyah stratagem.

Is that what you mean to say?