Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Kephapaulos on September 04, 2007, 10:39:20 AM
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How about we just get it all out in this thread about the music issue. There are good and bad forms of music. In earlier days there were probably bad sorts of music but today, modern music very much can have expressions of anger and sentimentality. Not always is there music in our day that is harmless to pious ears. :incense:
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Music rocks!
:popcorn:
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I like music, I accept that some is bad for me, and perhaps gets the bad part of my nature stirred up. I try to avoid it, and sometimes I indulge.
I have to say though, sometimes just the sound of violins can induce passion. It's not necessarily a matter of classical = good / modern = bad
I have noticed since I have "grown up" so to speak. Music doesn't interest me nearly as much as it used to. I rarely listen to my CD collection anymore.
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Your right Clare. Heavy Rock/Metal tends to be satanic. I know because I listen to Metal. :headbanger: The music (if you can call it that) isnt demonic in my opinion, but the song becomes demonic when the singer begins roaring out blasphemous,immoral, sinful lyrics. Then the song becomes demonic. If the music (regardless of genre, classical etc.) excites any sinful passions or desires ( I exclude anger) then it is satanic and must be put away.
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Your right Clare. Heavy Rock/Metal tends to be satanic. I know because I listen to Metal. :headbanger: The music (if you can call it that) isnt demonic in my opinion, but the song becomes demonic when the singer begins roaring out blasphemous,immoral, sinful lyrics. Then the song becomes demonic. If the music (regardless of genre, classical etc.) excites any sinful passions or desires ( I exclude anger) then it is satanic and must be put away.
True enough. There are obviously demonic acts like Deicide, Upside Down Cross, and Marilyn Manson.
I once read an interview with the singer from Deicide. Sick.
Then there are other bands like Slayer and Sepultura. Are they demonic?
Not a problem for me, because I don't like that kind of racket anyway!
Clare.
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Sepultura and Slayer? Totally! All you have to do is look at the cover for their new album!
Hey, JS, how did you break your pop music addiction?
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Sepultura and Slayer? Totally! All you have to do is look at the cover for their new album!
When I was at college (a good 15 years ago) there was this lad who was a Slayer fan, and he kept asking me out!
I declined.
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Smart choice.
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"Music disposes the soul to virtue or vice."
Those who are addicted to modern so-called music, much of which is merely noise that accompanies lyrics ranging from banal to filthy, will make any excuse to justify their habit.
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Here is a link to part one of a video of a talk by Mr. Michael J. Matt on music and culture. It's pretty good. You can find the other five parts of the talk on youtube as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQHRoFMVyTU&mode=related&search=
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All music is of the Devil. :devil2:
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I think it's very edifying to see you asking questions like this in a true spirit of humility, Amiga. It's a pleasure to share thoughts with you.
As for the songs you're into, I would say there's nothing wrong with them. They're cute songs. I know that sappy love lyrics can sometimes be considered quite secular but many words to famous opera arias and dittys are similar in tone. As long as there's nothing sɛҳuąƖ in the lyrics there's no problem.
I had to rethink my music collection a couple years back as it was somewhat hardcore and inappropriate. I figured it wasn't good when I wouldn't let my kid brothers listen to the stuff i was into. I was told in confession (because I asked) that i probably shouldn't be listening to all the hardcore stuff I liked so (begrudgingly, I admit) I started going through my stuff and taking out bits here and there.
I like what would be generally known as "classical" music more than most pop music anyways, I prefer going to a really good concert than a gig.
One thing I often wondered is how far music can have a physical effect on us. I used to be into a lot of industrial metal (and still love it, but don't buy it) and I think an investigation into the effect of it upon the emotions and the body could be interesting. Check out these kids at a Rammstein gig (I was going to go to one of theirs, but missed it due to exams) In retrospect i'm glad I didn't go, because I think the atmosphere seems a tad unsavory. Aside from the music (which most people will think is rubbish, anyways, and probably demonic, which I don't disagree with, so don't waste time telling me how rotten it is please anyone...) it's unsettling to see its effect on the crowd. All the horn-throwing etc. While the main singer guy is ridiculous and rather unintentionally funny, with his silly little nαzι goosestepping etc,the atmosphere nevertheless seems very unGodly. I think, for myself at least, that I could appreciate the beauty of music and God's gift of it in at the Proms, but most certainly not here. That, for me, is the deciding factor.
Edit: please don't follow on the links to watch any other of their vids. Some are quite disgusting. I chose this one as an example of how the music, while not accompanied by anything directly immoral, can project an impression of something unsavory nonetheless.
Rammstein live at Volkerball: Reise Reise (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-wBH6HXidO4)
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Gregorian chant is certainly uplifting. I know of two people (one now no longer on this mortal world) who said that they liked to listen to it because it was soothing to them when they were troubled or upset.
I'm a big fan of the Te Deum, myself. ^_^
But as for worldly music... well, I can't afford much, but about/nearly half (I think) of my music is just instrumental, which I sometimes write to precisely because it has an emotional effect which can assist me in getting into the roles I'm writing at the time.
I don't think that music that clearly moves the emotions is necessarily evil. But we must recognize that music often does so, and I think we all ought to be mindful and careful to ask ourselves what kind of emotions are being stirred up by what we're listening to, and whether those emotions are good to have stirred up. Lust isn't the only bad in music. Music that greatly draws out melancholy or depressed feelings can lead one to wallow in sadness about their problems and circuмstances, which is certainly not good for any of us.
Emotion often influences our reason, even if it should be the other way around. I think guarding ourselves against the wrong kinds of emotion(al stimulation), not just the wrong kinds of lyrics, is also important. Is a song good for us if it makes us depressed or sad for no reason at all? I'd say probably not.
I also have an addiction to Japanese pop... but that's faded greatly since most of the groups I liked (which started out more or less harmless) had their lyrics decline into the moral gutter. I haven't the funds to know whether or not any of them climbed back out of it yet. (Not terribly likely.) But that's an interest that has all kinds of problems. Which is too bad, because I get a kick out of singing all those interesting lyrics in really bad English. lol
I dare say that the artists themselves are often as much of a problem as the music, for those who ever look at them (eg, those who go to concerts or purchase videos).
But I don't listen to much music anymore, outside of the car.
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I started going through my stuff and taking out bits here and there.
I've been pruning my whole media collection like a banzai tree for years.
If I had to estimate, I'll bet I've thrown away some hundreds of dollars worth of bad books, movies and cds. (I would often "buy to try" so that was quite a bit.) Some of it was very hard to part with, because of the parts that weren't bad. But even though the sacrifice was sometimes very difficult, I was always glad that I'd made myself choose the right thing. A few songs I really enjoyed only had "one little line" wrong with them as far as completely bad stuff... but I knew that I didn't want to have to answer for listening to and singing that "one little line." Other CDs had a few tracks that were okay, but many others that weren't, even if I didn't listen to them. Did I want music offensive to God in my collection, though?
So I go on 'pruning.' Perhaps one day I'll have the strength to give up the worldly stuff even if it's okay, but... for now I'm glad that at least I've greatly cleaned up the mess that was my media collection.
Thanks to God for His grace!
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I don't know any of the music you've listed, so I can't comment on the individual titles or even the sort of music in general.
However, this is well said and worth reading again:
I don't think that music that clearly moves the emotions is necessarily evil. But we must recognize that music often does so, and I think we all ought to be mindful and careful to ask ourselves what kind of emotions are being stirred up by what we're listening to, and whether those emotions are good to have stirred up. Lust isn't the only bad in music. Music that greatly draws out melancholy or depressed feelings can lead one to wallow in sadness about their problems and circuмstances, which is certainly not good for any of us.
Emotion often influences our reason, even if it should be the other way around. I think guarding ourselves against the wrong kinds of emotion(al stimulation), not just the wrong kinds of lyrics, is also important. Is a song good for us if it makes us depressed or sad for no reason at all? I'd say probably not.
I've never been "into" anything that anyone outside a good Catholic mindset would consider bad, but have been overly influenced by the emotional side of music. For example, if I was feeling lonely, I'd listen to songs which spoke of that and made me all the worse. Consequently, I was more inclined to make bad decisions on who I spent time with in an effort simply to squash the loneliness.
I'd also add that the more music you have in your head (that you can recite without the accompaning CD), the more you'll be influenced by those songs perhaps at the worst of times. An example of this would be, say, you're in a relationship and want to keep a level head and not be overly influenced by emotion, so you put aside your collection of love songs for awhile. But, you still have those songs running through your head and popping up every time you think of that wonderful person you're interested in courting. Your intentions are good, but you've set yourself up to be influenced by the music long before you (wisely) decide to put them aside.
Following the same concept, the more good, Catholic music you have memorized, the better! Why wait until Mass to have music stir your soul and lead you to offer praise to God?
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There is nothing neutral in the spiritual life.
There are, however, many actions which are, in themselves, indifferent.
For example, if I am out for a walk, all depends upon my intention (actual and/or habitual). I could be going to murder my neighbor, or simply giving my body some healthy recreation (which may or may not be meritorious, depending upon whether I am in a state of grace). The act of shooting a man could be murder, self defense, or I could kill him by mistake (perhaps I am hunting and mistake him for a deer, etc.).
Much in life is, in itself, indifferent. The motive determines the morality in many cases.
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Most people make the mistake of listening to "blue music" when they are already blue. DO NOT DO SO. ...Music imitates the emotions, that is why most are emotionally attached to music that they know in their heart is not good.
I'd say the farther away from worldly music we can get, the better. I will back it up by saying, that the less we play into our own emotions, and rather mortify them, the more room there is for God there.
True enough, I've experienced all these.
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Thanks! your advices are very well understood! God bless!
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If I had to estimate, I'll bet I've thrown away some hundreds of dollars worth of bad books, movies and cds. (I would often "buy to try" so that was quite a bit.
It does get a bit frustrating when you buy something and then have to throw it out! Books is probably my largest expenditure, it's appauling how many bad books are out there!
We have a policy at home which is pretty much rent before you buy, in the case of movies. I sometimes check out lyrics to a cd on the net before I buy it. I haven't bought music in years though...I'm a Limewire girl... :wink:
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Amiga, if you feel pressurized to lay off the pop music you like because of debatable lyrics, why not try singers like Sarah Brightman and Hayley Westenrae (sp)? They do modernized covers of older songs, often "classical". It's a quite a happy medium between pop and "classical". Operababes are another in a similar vein.
Aesthetically, I'm not saying they're the best out there. But for an easy transition into more "cultured" music, they're a good start.
I used to volunteer as a radio presenter and I managed to have several shows a week with decent "popular" music, so it's not all bad either. It is however a greater exercise in discretion.