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Author Topic: MR people and the use of reason  (Read 1177 times)

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MR people and the use of reason
« on: January 27, 2010, 06:47:21 AM »
  I wonder what constitues use of reason and how much IQ is necessary for making one morally responsible.
  I know a boy who can:
speak using correct grammar, even figuritive language,
read and write,
help his parents in keeping the house and entertaining the guests,
fend for himself (ie. not needing help in eating, clothing bathing etc.)
make works of art with patience and deligence.
Play with other children without getting into trouble, (also taking care of younger ones.)
He also can argue with others, ask questions and remember things of past.
  But he has down syndrome......
I think he has some use of reason. His parents tried very hard to educate him, they sent him to a school especially designated for MR children.

MR people and the use of reason
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 02:12:59 PM »
   A human being cannot be 100% without reason. Even those children with severe genetic disorders who can never ever be more inteligent than a 4 year old, can know their nurses, learn some simple gestures and react to things around them.
   Perhaps, before the industization and introduction of technology and modern schools, people with mild retardation could not be recognized from others.
  When a mental disability is very low, the sufferer has normal appearence and can understand and learn simple manual jobs. He can't be a businessman or a lawyer, but he can interact and socialize like other people.
  I wonder if the inability to finish high school is considered lack of reason?


MR people and the use of reason
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 02:18:08 PM »
Actually, I do disability claims and just got a new case, wheras 2 yrs ago, someone with IQ in mid-60s was turned down as they were functioning higher than IQ and had significant earnings.

so, would think it is up to a good confessor to judge how much one knows and understands dogma, sin,etc..

Despite IQ, functioning is also a key...

Above IQ 70 is considered not MR, but likely could be BIF (borderline intellectual functioning).

Stantard IQ is 100

Offline Matthew

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MR people and the use of reason
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 02:21:14 PM »
Onset of reason is a gradual process.

Children aren't irrational animals up till the magic age of 7, when they wake up one morning with a rational nature.

It helps to understand what reason allows us to do -- to make abstractions (and hence, recognize patterns, categories, etc.), to use language, etc.

If a child understand the concept of "chair" -- and how this chair, those chairs, and that chair over there all participate in "chairness" even though they have different accidents (color, shape, texture, etc.) -- that's using one's reason.

I think children rapidly pass up "pets" about age 1 1/2 or so -- I noticed that, having kids of my own. Under a certain age, there is little difference between a pet cat, dog, or human. They all cuddle, are incredibly needy, can't communicate, and lack reason.

There are also stories about children in Purgatory (and even Hell) -- so you don't have to be an adult to have enough use of reason to commit sin. Of course, God judges based on one's heart, so we can't really judge how culpable a given person is.

Matthew

MR people and the use of reason
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 02:30:20 PM »
True, God alone knows the heart and mind.that si the problem I have with some threads and posters, seems they wish to take His role for themselves,instead of letting Him figure it out..barring blatant heresy such as Uriels comments about Mary...