I have become convinced of this lately.  I started a new job months ago and am working with a very nice man, a Novus Ordo Catholic who is strictly pro-life.  I have not revealed my "traddie" side to him, but he has, from time to time, talked about the Faith.  And, he has also expressed his doubts about it, going so far as to say that if there is no afterlife that he would be okay with such.

Explains a lot about the post-conciliar Church and, no doubt, Francis.

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Quote from: Jehanne

Most Catholics are agnostics.

What a load of bunk.

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I thought this was off as well.  It seems to be a stretch given one statement made by one NO Catholic.  Most of the NO Catholics I knew when I was NO were most definitely not agnostic.  They were ignorant, as I was, but not agnostic.

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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Quote from: Jehanne

Most Catholics are agnostics.

What a load of bunk.

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I thought this was off as well.  It seems to be a stretch given one statement made by one NO Catholic.  Most of the NO Catholics I knew when I was NO were most definitely not agnostic.  They were ignorant, as I was, but not agnostic.

The guy I know is active in his NO parish, serves on the parish council, and goes to Mass regularly.  He seems to me like a typical NO Catholic.  I doubt that he would express his views publicly which he expressed privately to me, but thinking about it, his attitude seems to be the norm.

After all, why do most NO Catholics continue to attend the New Mass when it is patently obvious that the "old" Tridentine Mass is far more reverent and far more expressive of the belief in the Real Presence, unless, of course, one either doubts or simply does not believe in the Real Presence?  Yet, where I live, the Tridentine Masses are poorly attended, as is the SSPX Mass.

It's worse than that:

When I confronted my two Catholic colleagues on the panel with the apparent miracle of the virgin birth and asked how they could reconcile this with basic biology, I was ultimately told that perhaps this biblical claim merely meant to emphasize what an important event the birth was. Neither came to the explicit defense of what is undeniably one of the central tenets of Catholic theology.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124597314928257169

Now, in fact, I would argue most people who even call themselves religious choose reason over God for many reasons. Most people who believe in the ʝʊdɛօ-Christian God, don’t really believe in most part—the way—people are happy to call themselves Christians or Jєωs, but they, but they pick and choose from the Scriptures. They say, well, Jonah didn’t live inside a whale. You know, I don’t really like the idea that Lot told the, the people of Sodom—he said, O.K., rape my daughters because I don’t want to you rape the angels. So go rape my daughters because they are just women, and women are chattel, and it’s O.K. I doubt many Catholics actually believe—in fact, I would be amazed to find any, including priests, who believe that when a priest blesses a wafer it turns into the body of a first century Jєω. I was on a stage with several people from the Vatican—the Vatican astronomer and, and several colleagues of mine: religious Catholics—and I asked them if any of them believed in the virgin birth and not one of them would said they did.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/life-the-universe-and-nothing-is-it-reasonable-to-believe-there-is-a-go

Yes, there is a crisis in the Church. This anecdotal evidence certainly helps support that fact.

This is why we must avoid the conciliar Church and the Novus Ordo mass, lest we become heretics as well. Heresy isn't going to get us into heaven, that much is for sure. It might get us into hell though.

My thoughts:  my mother is age 83 and I think she stays in New Order because she wants the changes.  She agrees with contraception, agrees with divorce with remarriage and now, agrees that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs are children of God.  My other siblings stay there for the same reasons, and I get shunned.

I knew of a deacon and he is 80 and he told me that if he had his way, yeah, baptism would wait til one is 18, that is ready to take on the faith.  So, he does not see baptism as the removal of original sin, but initiation.  They are taught these notions when taking classes.

Another notion was that Our Lady was just like us at her death, old and wrinkled.  Hm?  She is not free of original sin.  That was taught in classes for catechesis.

I would like to get the New Order people to realize they are in communism/marxist and supporting it.  Then would they leave?  My siblings aren't moving!

In my local Novus Ordo parish which I attended for about a year before I became traditional there is only one family that seems like they might have the faith. Of course the females wear pants and do not cover their heads and the parents might use contraception, but they seem to care about the religion and go to Mass regularly and have a respect for the blessed sacrament during exposition and they always genuflect. And the mother once was talking about a baby who died without baptism and she seemed sad like she really believed that the baby did not go to heaven because of the lack of baptism. But that is just one family in a large parish. Outside of them I doubt if anyone believed in the whole faith.

I believe that many of them are not agnostics and do believe in some kind of God, but they reject the true God and the teachings of the Catholic Church and believe in a God of their own making, an idol.

I think most of us agree that your typical NO is something alright, but I don't think agnostic describes them. Agnostics claim that they believe in nothing because nothing can be proved. NO Catholics generally always believe in something (many, quite ardently), though it's usually the wrong thing.