Author Topic: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?  (Read 6985 times)

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Offline Clemens Maria

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Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
« Reply #405 on: September 09, 2020, 08:40:19 AM »
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  • So your vote won't count either (ie. it's not mitigating a loss). I might understand your position better if you lived in a swing state.
    My vote does count.  In MA they count votes for everyone listed on the ballot.  Write ins get grouped together in the “other” category so they don’t really count.  No one knows what you wrote except you and God.  So in a social context that’s a throwaway vote.  You might as well not waste anyone’s time and stay home.  But voting for a candidate listed on the ballot gets counted and reported publicly.  So if a trend of more votes for the losing Republican gets started, that will embolden better candidates and more money to be sent in that direction.  That is at least a moral victory if not a real advancement of Christian culture.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #406 on: September 09, 2020, 02:47:44 PM »
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  • My vote does count.  In MA they count votes for everyone listed on the ballot.  Write ins get grouped together in the “other” category so they don’t really count.  No one knows what you wrote except you and God.  So in a social context that’s a throwaway vote.  You might as well not waste anyone’s time and stay home.  But voting for a candidate listed on the ballot gets counted and reported publicly.  So if a trend of more votes for the losing Republican gets started, that will embolden better candidates and more money to be sent in that direction.  That is at least a moral victory if not a real advancement of Christian culture.
    Quite honestly, I think you're living in a dream world.  Sorry CM.  I typically agree with you about other things.

    I tend to believe that a vote for Christ, even if it doesn't get "counted" by the world, is not a waste of time and more apt to make a difference than a vote that partakes in The Game.  I wonder how long Catholics will continue to take part in The Game.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #407 on: September 09, 2020, 03:00:45 PM »
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  • Quite honestly, I think you're living in a dream world.  Sorry CM.  I typically agree with you about other things.

    I tend to believe that a vote for Christ, even if it doesn't get "counted" by the world, is not a waste of time and more apt to make a difference than another vote that partakes in The Game.  I wonder how long Catholics will continue to take part in The Game.


    I guess it comes down to whether you believe that Trump is part of the conspiracy or he is an outsider. I believe that he actually, in a natural way, is inclined to help people. I see that he has changed the “politically correct” narrative and has exposed the great conspiracy. No longer are the Bilderbergers, the illuminati, and the Club of Rome’s existence believed by us “fringe conspiracy nuts”. Trump brought it mainstream.


    I agree that you aren’t committing mortal sin by not voting for him, but I think you are mistaken. Humanly speaking, he is our only shot right now.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline alaric

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #408 on: September 09, 2020, 04:56:30 PM »
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    I agree that you aren’t committing mortal sin by not voting for him, but I think you are mistaken. Humanly speaking, he is our only shot right now.
    I disagree. I think not voting IS a vote for Biden, a patsy and a retard who will kill MORE babies, expose MORE children to pedophiles, give MORE rights to sodomites, cause MORE wars  and sell us out MORE quickly to the NWO and  their BS "virus" and the coming death serum in their attempt to mandate we all get VAXXED. And as much as a disaster creepy "uncle Joe" would be, that's just the start of it, because his ass isn't going to be around long and Congo-mala will take over and SHE WILL declare open genocide on whites and Christians, most of whom will not go along with the program of global enslavement.

    All this talk and waxing eloquently about sitting this one out because the Orangeman likes fags and joos is a moot point.

    Just the fact that all the freaks, weirdos and globalists like Soros who want Trump GONE  should be enough for anyone to wake up and smell the coffee that we are in a literal fight for our lives right now and the Orangeman has done more for Catholicism and the Faith than our own pope and faggot clergy on the entire planet.Not too mention what's in the best interest of America actually still being a sovereign nation.


    Maybe Trump might not be all to end all, but he's all we absolutely have right now. And as far as I'm concerned, you're an idiot to not vote and sit back and just let things "happen" with at least trying. IMO at least.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #409 on: September 09, 2020, 09:44:37 PM »
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    I think not voting IS a vote for Biden, a patsy and a retard who will kill MORE babies, expose MORE children to pedophiles, give MORE rights to sodomites, cause MORE wars  and sell us out MORE quickly to the NWO and  their BS "virus" and the coming death serum in their attempt to mandate we all get VAXXED.

    I do agree, to some degree.  I could argue that as St Thomas More stated, "Under the law, silence gives consent."  So there's no such thing as "sitting out a vote".  In a 2-party system (which is what we have), and since at this point in history, the 3rd parties are meaningless, then a non-vote, or an avoidance of voting, is an action.  "Sitting on the sidelines" is essentially, a vote (indirectly) for Biden. 
    .
    Theoretically, "sitting out an election" does not endorse 1 candidate or the other.  But in practical/real terms, based on the 2-party situation today, in our country, a non-vote is a (silent consent) vote for Biden.  I'm not saying such a non-vote is a sin (for i'm not the Church), but it could be argued. 
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    As much emphasis as the media puts on the "popular vote" and how they use that communist-mindset to stir up the people into riot against the integrity of our electoral college, then YES a vote for Trump EVEN IN A BLUE STATE can help.  That's how important such an election is today.
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    Wake up, people!  The communists are at the door!  Civil war, WW3, food shortages, FEMA camps are HERE!  It is the 11th hour!  WE ARE AT WAR!  Put down the moral theology manuals and make practical decisions!


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #410 on: September 10, 2020, 08:24:06 AM »
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  • Republicans printing up more debt. Voting on the Corona Virus bill soon. I can hear people say "Well, at least Democrats want 3 trillion compared to Republican 300 billion, that's why I'm voting for Trump."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #411 on: September 10, 2020, 02:38:08 PM »
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  • Based on this thread here:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/politics-and-world-leaders/pp-gets-more-$$-under-trump-admin-than-ever-b4/

    I now hold that it would be a grave sin to vote for Trump.

    Trump administration has not only continued to fund Planned Parenthood, but increased the spending by a record amount.

    Double effect vis-a-vis abortion no longer applies.  Voting for Trump means voting for Planned Parenthood funding.  You cannot commit one murder even to prevent millions of other murders.  Consequently, this fails the proportionality condition of double effect.  With sodomy, one could make the case that the evil of abortion far outweighed the evil of sodomy (though some might disagree) and so was an acceptable secondary effect.  $616 million given to Planned Parenthood is utterly unacceptable and under no circumstances can a Catholic vote for Donald J. Trump.

    So much for the "most Pro Life president ever".

    Offline Caraffa

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #412 on: September 10, 2020, 05:18:01 PM »
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  • Based on this thread here:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/politics-and-world-leaders/pp-gets-more-$$-under-trump-admin-than-ever-b4/

    I now hold that it would be a grave sin to vote for Trump.

    Trump administration has not only continued to fund Planned Parenthood, but increased the spending by a record amount.

    Double effect vis-a-vis abortion no longer applies.  Voting for Trump means voting for Planned Parenthood funding.  You cannot commit one murder even to prevent millions of other murders.  Consequently, this fails the proportionality condition of double effect.  With sodomy, one could make the case that the evil of abortion far outweighed the evil of sodomy (though some might disagree) and so was an acceptable secondary effect.  $616 million given to Planned Parenthood is utterly unacceptable and under no circumstances can a Catholic vote for Donald J. Trump.

    So much for the "most Pro Life president ever".
    There can be legitimate reasons for not voting for Trump, but this isn't one of them. The increase in Planned Parenthood funding is due to Medicaid reimbursement for health services. PP already left Title X funding and it's not like the number of live abortions or abortion rate is rising, though the fall predates Trump. 
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline Caraffa

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #413 on: September 10, 2020, 05:20:46 PM »
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  • The ironic part for those not wanting to vote for Trump over abortion is should Biden/Harris win, that issue would essentially be over. There could be a silver lining in that situation in that the "culture war"* comes to an end, but the demographic age comes more to the forefront.  

    *But as Pat Buchanan might note, you're not going to win a culture war unless you get the demographics right.
    Pray for me, always.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #414 on: September 10, 2020, 09:57:09 PM »
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    The increase in Planned Parenthood funding is due to Medicaid reimbursement for health services.
    Thank you for providing specific facts to an otherwise overly-general topic.  

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #415 on: September 10, 2020, 10:07:43 PM »
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    Republicans printing up more debt. Voting on the Corona Virus bill soon. I can hear people say "Well, at least Democrats want 3 trillion compared to Republican 300 billion, that's why I'm voting for Trump."
    I don’t like this anymore than anyone else, but at this point in time, the US is between a rock and a hard place, economically.  1) The dollar is cooked.  The fiat game is over, so printing must continue until it’s time for hyper inflation and a new currency reset.  It can’t be avoided, it’s just a matter of when.
    .
    2). This virus has shut down the economy, which is deflationary.  So all this spending and the Fed buying stocks/bonds is the only thing keeping the stock market from crashing.  Trump/republicans have to keep spending or else they’ll be blamed for the ticking time-bomb of going off the gold standard, which has been building since the 70s.
    .
    The democrats are all for printing too, they just want to use some of the money for welfare (or kickbacks to their voter base).  The bill will get passed, it’s just a matter of how it’s spent.
    .
    P.s.  this exact same scenario (currency crisis, crazy money printing) is happening all around the world, in Europe, China, Asia, etc.  And all these global banks are interconnected.  So if one country goes bankrupt and crashes, they all go.  It’s just a matter of time.  Then right after the crash, (as usually happens to distract the people from economic problems), a war will be started (this time WW3).  This follows many prophecies and was also the freemasonic plan of Albert Pike.  Buckle up!!  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #416 on: September 11, 2020, 09:39:23 AM »
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  • There can be legitimate reasons for not voting for Trump, but this isn't one of them. The increase in Planned Parenthood funding is due to Medicaid reimbursement for health services. PP already left Title X funding and it's not like the number of live abortions or abortion rate is rising, though the fall predates Trump.

    False reasoning.  Trump is responsible for these abortions by signing the budgets.  He can also attempt to use Execute Orders to put an end to these.  One cannot commit even a single murder in order to prevent many more murders.  Voting for Trump is voting for murder.  This fails the double effect test.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #417 on: September 11, 2020, 09:45:02 AM »
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  • False reasoning.  Trump is responsible for these abortions by signing the budgets.  He can also attempt to use Execute Orders to put an end to these.  One cannot commit even a single murder in order to prevent many more murders.  Voting for Trump is voting for murder.  This fails the double effect test.
    I think its a stretch to say people who vote for Trump in spite of his weaker position on abortion are voting *for* abortion.

    That said in the case of Trump himself, I agree.  Voting for these budgets isn't defensible morally.  Sure, if he was a Catholic, and we had pre Vatican II style bishops, he could be excommunicated for it.  But obviously that's not the situation

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #418 on: September 11, 2020, 10:04:57 AM »
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    He can also attempt to use Execute Orders to put an end to these.
    You obviously have no idea how a republic form of govt works.  Budgets are part of the LEGISLATIVE branch.  An EXECUTIVE order cannot overrule legislation but only affect EXECUTIVE POLICIES when a law gives an EXECUTIVE agency power to make decisions.  You’re making this out to be less complex than it is. 

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #419 on: September 11, 2020, 10:24:14 AM »
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  • False reasoning.  Trump is responsible for these abortions by signing the budgets.  He can also attempt to use Execute Orders to put an end to these.  One cannot commit even a single murder in order to prevent many more murders.  Voting for Trump is voting for murder.  This fails the double effect test.
    He did. Many times. Here's just one example, but if you look up "Trump Planned Parenthood" you'll find dozens more: 
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/health/trump-defunds-planned-parenthood.html


     

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