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Author Topic: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?  (Read 10639 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
« Reply #390 on: September 08, 2020, 07:09:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on September 08, 2020, 06:56:48 AM
    How many times on CI is this quote going to be posted and falsely attributed to Trump? This is at least the third time I have pointed this out. Please people, before posting do a bit of research.

    And it doesn't even matter.  There's no shortage of evidence that Trump is a Jєωιѕн sock puppet.
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    Online Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #391 on: September 08, 2020, 10:05:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 08, 2020, 07:09:42 AM
    And it doesn't even matter.  There's no shortage of evidence that Trump is a Jєωιѕн sock puppet.

    Lad, you *suspect* that and you definitely have evidence that supports you, but I contend he is being cagey. I readily admit that he believes that the “ends justify”, thus no good Catholic, without Gods intervention, could spoil the plans of the conspirators. I also believe he *naturally* has a good heart and has good intentions.

    God uses imperfect and sinful people in accomplishing His will. We should all remember that we only profess the True Faith and are, hopefully, in a state of sanctifying grace because we have cooperated with God’s grace. Also, remember that we can lose that grace (and, God forbid, the Faith) at any time and be just as sinful as (and perhaps even worse than) President Trump.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Geremia

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    Be subject to every human creature for God's sake.
    « Reply #392 on: September 08, 2020, 11:19:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Croixalist on September 07, 2020, 06:05:06 PM
    some people don't want to be willing pawns for the NWO?

    That doesn't exempt you from being a citizen and from the duties associated with citizenship.
    Quote from: 1 Pet. 2:13-14
    13 Be ye subject therefore to every human creature for God's sake: whether it be to the king as excelling,
    14 Or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of the good.

    Quote from: Geremia on September 06, 2020, 04:24:58 PM
    Fr. Titus Cranny, S.A. (1921-1981), The Moral Obligation of Voting:
    Quote from: Fr. Cranny
    It is better for the state to have an evil ruler than no ruler at all, for where there is no ruler the state cannot long endure, as the wise Solomon observed: "Where there is no governor the people will fail" [Prov. 11:14].
    The State, no matter how corrupt it may be, is still a good.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #393 on: September 08, 2020, 11:24:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on September 08, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
    Lad, you *suspect* that and you definitely have evidence that supports you, but I contend he is being cagey. I readily admit that he believes that the “ends justify”, thus no good Catholic, without Gods intervention, could spoil the plans of the conspirators. I also believe he *naturally* has a good heart and has good intentions.

    God uses imperfect and sinful people in accomplishing His will. We should all remember that we only profess the True Faith and are, hopefully, in a state of sanctifying grace because we have cooperated with God’s grace. Also, remember that we can lose that grace (and, God forbid, the Faith) at any time and be just as sinful as (and perhaps even worse than) President Trump.

    Right, but it's not about Trump being a sinner; it's about what he stands for publicly and what his agenda is.  God can turn any evil to good, of course, but that doesn't mean we're allowed to commit evil with the hope of God turning it into good.

    And of course, I'm convinced that the elections are rigged and that our votes will never be allowed to offset the person they've already pre-selected to hold office.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #394 on: September 08, 2020, 11:52:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 08, 2020, 11:24:54 AM
    I'm convinced that the elections are rigged and that our votes will never be allowed to offset the person they've already pre-selected to hold office.
    Even if this is true, it doesn't exempt Catholic citizens from their moral obligation to vote.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #395 on: September 08, 2020, 12:45:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on September 08, 2020, 11:52:43 AM
    Even if this is true, it doesn't exempt Catholic citizens from their moral obligation to vote.

    Sure it does.  You could argue that it's not certain (though it is to me), but if you know that your vote will not be counted, then there's no obligation to go vote, since the very reason for said obligation (to influence the direction of the country) no longer applies.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #396 on: September 08, 2020, 01:06:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 08, 2020, 12:45:18 PM
    the very reason for said obligation (to influence the direction of the country
    Example is another reason.
    If all Catholics abstained from voting, what sort of example would that give to the non-Catholic citizens, especially since (real) Catholic candidates (on the national level at least) don't exist? It would seem to tell them Catholics are apolitical, apathetic, and unpatriotic.
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #397 on: September 08, 2020, 01:47:59 PM »
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    • There is no way that you can convince me that Trump is equivalent to Biden/hαɾɾιs.  It’s not even close.  Therefore I will vote for Trump and I will not have even the least pang of conscience.  I might be indignant that you non-voting people will enjoy the benefits of a president you did not vote for.  Or I might be angry that I can’t worship in my chapel anymore because it was shut down by a national edict from Biden/hαɾɾιs who was elected because thousands of people who should know better failed to vote against him.  But I will not be worried in the least that I have offended God by voting for Trump over Biden.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #398 on: September 08, 2020, 02:32:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on September 08, 2020, 01:47:59 PM
    There is no way that you can convince me that Trump is equivalent to Biden/hαɾɾιs.  It’s not even close.  Therefore I will vote for Trump and I will not have even the least pang of conscience.  I might be indignant that you non-voting people will enjoy the benefits of a president you did not vote for.  Or I might be angry that I can’t worship in my chapel anymore because it was shut down by a national edict from Biden/hαɾɾιs who was elected because thousands of people who should know better failed to vote against him.  But I will not be worried in the least that I have offended God by voting for Trump over Biden.
    Ditto.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #399 on: September 08, 2020, 02:48:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on September 08, 2020, 11:52:43 AM
    Even if this is true, it doesn't exempt Catholic citizens from their moral obligation to vote.
    Why? A vote actually represents the person voting.  Can Catholics vote for even a little ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity or Covid vaccines or perhaps a little cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρing?  Our votes should not be wasted on deceptive persons promoting evil.  Not even when they promote a great good, because that isn't truly good, it's a tactic.    
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #400 on: September 08, 2020, 03:27:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on September 08, 2020, 05:21:55 AM
    If you don't vote at all, or vote a "write in", then you may as well vote Biden because write ins and no votes only means more votes for the guy hell bent on destroying our country.

    Not in my state.  It's electoral votes are already going to Biden.  So, whether it's a vote for Trump or a write in or no vote, the end results are the same.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #401 on: September 08, 2020, 03:50:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on September 08, 2020, 01:47:59 PM
    There is no way that you can convince me that Trump is equivalent to Biden/hαɾɾιs.  It’s not even close.  Therefore I will vote for Trump and I will not have even the least pang of conscience.  I might be indignant that you non-voting people will enjoy the benefits of a president you did not vote for.  Or I might be angry that I can’t worship in my chapel anymore because it was shut down by a national edict from Biden/hαɾɾιs who was elected because thousands of people who should know better failed to vote against him.  But I will not be worried in the least that I have offended God by voting for Trump over Biden.
    I don't have a problem nor think it a sin if a Catholic chooses to vote for Trump.  I do have a problem when other Catholics wag their fingers at those of us who will not/considering not doing what they do.  
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #402 on: September 08, 2020, 09:54:45 PM »
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    • You may not have noticed how Obama purged the military and intelligence agencies of conservatives.  You may not have noticed how Obama only appointed lunatic left judges.  You may not have noticed that attorneys general became Marxist persecutors under Obama.  And you may not have noticed that under Obama we facilitated wars in Libya, Egypt and Syria.  Despite all the Sabre-rattling, how many wars did Trump start?  Zero!  So he may have had limited success in getting us out of current military commitments but at least he didn’t start up new ones. If Clinton had been elected, you can bet that we’d have had troop surges in Iraq on the Syrian border if not a full invasion.  How is the fact that the military brass hates Trump not prima facie evidence of his opposition to warmongering?  Trump opposed transgenders in the military.  Read the thread about how Trump outfoxed the Jєωs.  Unlike any other Republican candidates I can remember, he is keeping his campaign promises. At least as much as his Republican confrères will support him.  So there is no equivalence between Trump and Biden.  A write-in will not be counted.  Not voting is a failure to support a candidate who is favorable to your position.  It is basically political ѕυιcιdє.  I also live in a solid blue state so I sympathize with your plight but even mitigating the loss is something like a moral victory.  Those SOB demonrats will not suppress my vote.  I vote against them as much as I vote for Trump.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #403 on: September 09, 2020, 05:59:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on September 08, 2020, 09:54:45 PM
    You may not have noticed how Obama purged the military and intelligence agencies of conservatives.  You may not have noticed how Obama only appointed lunatic left judges.  You may not have noticed that attorneys general became Marxist persecutors under Obama.  And you may not have noticed that under Obama we facilitated wars in Libya, Egypt and Syria.  Despite all the Sabre-rattling, how many wars did Trump start?  Zero!  So he may have had limited success in getting us out of current military commitments but at least he didn’t start up new ones. If Clinton had been elected, you can bet that we’d have had troop surges in Iraq on the Syrian border if not a full invasion.  How is the fact that the military brass hates Trump not prima facie evidence of his opposition to warmongering?  Trump opposed transgenders in the military.  Read the thread about how Trump outfoxed the Jєωs.  Unlike any other Republican candidates I can remember, he is keeping his campaign promises. At least as much as his Republican confrères will support him.  So there is no equivalence between Trump and Biden.  A write-in will not be counted.  Not voting is a failure to support a candidate who is favorable to your position.  It is basically political ѕυιcιdє.  I also live in a solid blue state so I sympathize with your plight but even mitigating the loss is something like a moral victory.  Those SOB demonrats will not suppress my vote.  I vote against them as much as I vote for Trump.
    So your vote won't count either (ie. it's not mitigating a loss). I might understand your position better if you lived in a swing state.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Mortal Sin Now to Vote Trump?
    « Reply #404 on: September 09, 2020, 07:20:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on September 09, 2020, 05:59:43 AM
    So your vote won't count either (ie. it's not mitigating a loss). I might understand your position better if you lived in a swing state.

    Indeed, the double effect of "mitigating a loss" does not rise to the level of justifying the vote with double effect.  I live in a swing state myself, Ohio, so here it might make some kind of a difference.  Of course, my own single vote will hardly decide the election, and I doubt there are many of us conservative types in Ohio are contemplating not voting Trump because of his promotion of sodomy and other evils.

    As you said, I'm not going to point any fingers at those who vote based on double effect.  I can see a case being made for that ... if you believe that the voting system is not entirely rigged and controlled.  I might be persuaded to myself, but I am convinced that they have already selected the next President and the popular vote will make no difference.
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