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Poll

In a corrupt state that finances abortion and who knows what else am I... :

obliged to honestly render to Caesar what is due to him according to the spirit of the law
3 (23.1%)
obliged to render as little as possible according to the letter of the law, that is whatever is legal
4 (30.8%)
obliged to pay as little as possible, even illegally when opportune
2 (15.4%)
allowed to illegally pay as little as possible, but not obliged
4 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 13

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Author Topic: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state  (Read 3149 times)

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Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
« on: July 05, 2022, 10:52:00 AM »
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    • I am interested in Church teaching on the subject and any thoughts you might have.

    God bless.
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #1 on: July 05, 2022, 11:08:34 AM »
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    • The government knows about its loopholes.  There is nothing wrong in using them to your advantage, because they expect it.  Ergo, you are not deceiving anyone.
    Otherwise, render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. 
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #2 on: July 05, 2022, 11:11:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: epiphany on July 05, 2022, 11:08:34 AM
    The government knows about its loopholes.  There is nothing wrong in using them to your advantage, because they expect it.  Ergo, you are not deceiving anyone.
    Otherwise, render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's.
    They'll know what you're trying to do. Especially in the US, you could get prison time for tax fraud. It's not worth the risk.
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    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #3 on: July 05, 2022, 11:13:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Minnesota on July 05, 2022, 11:11:57 AM
    They'll know what you're trying to do. Especially in the US, you could get prison time for tax fraud. It's not worth the risk.
    I did not say anything about tax fraud.
    I mentioned using loopholes in the tax code to your advantage.  Two entirely different things. 
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    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #4 on: July 05, 2022, 11:16:03 AM »
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    • Let me clarify. I'm from Europe, I can get away with no problem doing work and being paid in cash, I was wondering about the morality of avoiding taxes by getting paid cash for example.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #5 on: July 05, 2022, 11:31:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: epiphany on July 05, 2022, 11:13:41 AM
    I did not say anything about tax fraud.
    I mentioned using loopholes in the tax code to your advantage.  Two entirely different things.
    It's moreso, I'm unsure if most people could get away with tax loopholes in the US. Most non-rich, that is.
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    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #6 on: July 05, 2022, 12:30:26 PM »
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    • Moral Theologian Father Jone O.F.M.Cap. says:

    "Where the tax laws are only penal laws they oblige in conscience only to accept the penalty inflicted for their transgression (Cf. 57). If they are not mere penal laws they oblige in conscience to the payment of the taxes even prior to a judicial sentence."

    "Direct taxes are probably not levied by legislation which obliges in conscience prior to a judicial sentence. Customary interpretation and the intention of the lawgiver would seem to render an obligation in conscience highly questionable in our country. Although citizens should be urged to pay their share of the taxes, nevertheless, post factum, it is not necessary to urge restitution."

    "Indirect taxes are commonly held to be levied as penal laws."

    To my understanding, in practical terms, he is basically saying that you only have to pay what you are forced to pay after a judicial sentence. Anyting else that you can getaway without paying, is no sin.
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #7 on: July 05, 2022, 12:54:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Minnesota on July 05, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
    It's moreso, I'm unsure if most people could get away with tax loopholes in the US. Most non-rich, that is.
    They can.  A good tax accountant is worth his price.
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #8 on: July 05, 2022, 12:54:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on July 05, 2022, 11:16:03 AM
    Let me clarify. I'm from Europe, I can get away with no problem doing work and being paid in cash, I was wondering about the morality of avoiding taxes by getting paid cash for example.
    The government knows people get paid in cash and don't report it.  It is not sinful in the least.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #9 on: July 05, 2022, 02:02:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on July 05, 2022, 11:16:03 AM
    Let me clarify. I'm from Europe, I can get away with no problem doing work and being paid in cash, I was wondering about the morality of avoiding taxes by getting paid cash for example.

    I recall my dad in the 1950s asking a priest in confession if it was a sin to avoid paying the full tax. The priest, if I remember said, 10% of it is enough. 
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #10 on: July 05, 2022, 02:55:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on July 05, 2022, 02:02:50 PM
    I recall my dad in the 1950s asking a priest in confession if it was a sin to avoid paying the full tax. The priest, if I remember said, 10% of it is enough.
    10% of it is enough
    GREAT!
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #11 on: July 05, 2022, 04:03:16 PM »
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    • What in world is "the spirit of tax law"?
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #12 on: July 05, 2022, 04:10:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on July 05, 2022, 04:03:16 PM
    What in world is "the spirit of tax law"?
    Beelzebub
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    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #13 on: July 05, 2022, 05:21:11 PM »
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    • Given the current conditions which are so similar to the French Revolution, one can expect government sources to be using shills to ferret out any potentially incriminating information which may be useful against Catholics, Chritians, pro-lifers and others who are despised by the current Leftist Revolutionary Regime.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Morality of avoiding taxes in a corrupt state
    « Reply #14 on: July 05, 2022, 09:15:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on July 05, 2022, 11:16:03 AM
    I can get away with no problem doing work and being paid in cash, I was wondering about the morality of avoiding taxes by getting paid cash for example.

    What do you think?
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    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."
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