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Author Topic: modesty for babies and children  (Read 3943 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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modesty for babies and children
« on: August 01, 2010, 04:52:42 AM »
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  •   There are mothers who have so little religion or, if you like, are so ignorant that if they want to show off their baby to some neighbouring mothers, they will show it to them naked. Others, when they are putting on diapers, will leave the babies, for a long period of time, uncovered before everyone. Now even if there is no one present at all, you should not do this. Should you not respect the presence of their Guardian Angels? It is the same thing when you are feeding them. Should any Christian mother allow her breasts to remain exposed? And even if they are covered, should she not turn aside to some place where there is no one else? Then there are others who, under the pretext of being foster-nurses, are continually only half-covered. This is very disgusting. It is enough to make even the pagans blush. People are compelled to avoid their company in order not to expose themselves to evil thoughts.

    But, you will say to me, even if everyone is around, we must feed our children and change their diapers when they cry! And I shall tell you that when they cry, you ought to do everything you possibly can to quieten them but that it is a far better thing to let them cry a little than to offend God. Alas! How many mothers are the cause of evil glances, of bad thoughts, of immodest touches! Tell me, are these the Christian mothers who should be so reserved? Oh, dear God! What judgment should they expect? Others are so cruel that they let their children run around for the whole morning, during the summer, only half-dressed. Tell me, unhappy people, would it not be better for you to take your places among the savage beasts? Where is your religion, then, and your anxiety to do your duty? Alas! As far as religion is concerned, you have none. As for your duties, have you ever known what they were? That you have not, you give proof every day. Ah, poor children, how unfortunate you are to belong to such parents!

    Cure of Ars

    And please don't remind us that he was not a Pope!


    Offline clare

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    « Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 01:20:23 PM »
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  • He wasn't infallible. No saint is.


    Offline Alex

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    modesty for babies and children
    « Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 01:43:40 PM »
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  • Well I agree completely with the Cure D'Ars on this one.

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 02:02:58 PM »
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  • I agree partly, but not completely.

    This for example:

    Quote
    Others, when they are putting on diapers, will leave the babies, for a long period of time, uncovered before everyone. Now even if there is no one present at all, you should not do this.


    Like their Guardian Angels would rather they got nappy rash!

    And the idea that feeding or changing a baby's nappy offends God. Chances are God would expect parents to do their duty and care for their babies, and ignore the pharisaical scandal of others.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #4 on: August 01, 2010, 02:16:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    I agree partly, but not completely.

    This for example:

    Quote
    Others, when they are putting on diapers, will leave the babies, for a long period of time, uncovered before everyone. Now even if there is no one present at all, you should not do this.


    Like their Guardian Angels would rather they got nappy rash!


    I think the key phrase here is for a long period of time. It doesn't take long to apply a little powder or cream to treat a rashy bottom.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #5 on: August 01, 2010, 02:21:26 PM »
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  • As for this:

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    But, you will say to me, even if everyone is around, we must feed our children and change their diapers when they cry! And I shall tell you that when they cry, you ought to do everything you possibly can to quieten them but that it is a far better thing to let them cry a little than to offend God.


    I seldom find it necessary to change a diaper or feed a baby with an audience. Most of the time you can do so discreetly or out of view of others. But, if necessary, I wouldn't let the presence of others keep me from changing/feeding the baby. I agree with Clare on this one.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 02:29:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    I think the key phrase here is for a long period of time. It doesn't take long to apply a little powder or cream to treat a rashy bottom.


    Exposure to air is itself a good treatment though. Perhaps even better than creams or powders.

    Offline Trinity

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    modesty for babies and children
    « Reply #7 on: August 01, 2010, 02:55:23 PM »
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  • A really bad case of rash can only be healed by exposure to air, or rather not being enclosed in a diaper.  If some Moms have not encountered this problem, thank God.  
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    modesty for babies and children
    « Reply #8 on: August 01, 2010, 02:56:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    As for this:

    Quote
    But, you will say to me, even if everyone is around, we must feed our children and change their diapers when they cry! And I shall tell you that when they cry, you ought to do everything you possibly can to quieten them but that it is a far better thing to let them cry a little than to offend God.


    I seldom find it necessary to change a diaper or feed a baby with an audience. Most of the time you can do so discreetly or out of view of others. But, if necessary, I wouldn't let the presence of others keep me from changing/feeding the baby. I agree with Clare on this one.


    It's important to remember children are much more sensitive to things than adults.

    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 03:36:17 PM »
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  • The only problem with parental advice is that it can rarely be absolute. I agree with much of this but, like any other parental advice, I take what I find reasonable and leave the rest.

    If my child has to remain naked, at home, for whatever reason, be it extreme rash, eczema, fever or other illness, I'm going to do what I have to do. He wouldn't be flaunted in front of anyone (including siblings depending on their ages), but I neither would I worry about his Guardian Angel having some puritanical fear of the flesh.

    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #10 on: August 01, 2010, 03:45:05 PM »
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  • I think the point St John Vianney is making is that the exposure should be as short as possible IN COMPANY.  If your child needs to be exposed for half the day to heal his nappy rash, don't invite people around while he is naked and don't take him out.  

    The offense against God is not the exposure per se, but unnecessary excess exposure.


    Offline clare

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    « Reply #11 on: August 01, 2010, 03:52:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jamie
    I think the point St John Vianney is making is that the exposure should be as short as possible IN COMPANY.  If your child needs to be exposed for half the day to heal his nappy rash, don't invite people around while he is naked and don't take him out.  

    The offense against God is not the exposure per se, but unnecessary excess exposure.


    But St John Vianney says:

    Quote
    Others, when they are putting on diapers, will leave the babies, for a long period of time, uncovered before everyone. Now even if there is no one present at all, you should not do this. Should you not respect the presence of their Guardian Angels?


    He is saying that parents shouldn't let babies be uncovered even when there is no one around, in case it upsets their Guardian Angels!

    Offline MyrnaM

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    modesty for babies and children
    « Reply #12 on: August 01, 2010, 03:59:43 PM »
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  • What would he say, I wonder about all those pictures of naked baby angels we see in holy places.  

    Are you sure that he even said, that or maybe someone just created an add on.  Not saying you did Spouse.

    We can't be sure of anything these days.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #13 on: August 01, 2010, 04:03:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Jamie
    I think the point St John Vianney is making is that the exposure should be as short as possible IN COMPANY.  If your child needs to be exposed for half the day to heal his nappy rash, don't invite people around while he is naked and don't take him out.  

    The offense against God is not the exposure per se, but unnecessary excess exposure.


    But St John Vianney says:

    Quote
    Others, when they are putting on diapers, will leave the babies, for a long period of time, uncovered before everyone. Now even if there is no one present at all, you should not do this. Should you not respect the presence of their Guardian Angels?


    He is saying that parents shouldn't let babies be uncovered even when there is no one around, in case it upsets their Guardian Angels!


    You are right - he did.  But we must presume that he understands fully the ethics behind certain actions and the fact that an angel would not be scandalized by a parent who leaves their child uncovered due to illness (such as nappy rash).  That is a different thing to leaving it uncovered when it is in full health.

    This is similar I guess to the morality of a person taking morphine to kill pain - that is ethically permitted - but taking it when you are not sick is not permitted.

    Offline Dawn

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    « Reply #14 on: August 01, 2010, 04:09:32 PM »
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  • Spouse thank you for this writing from the Cure. I must admit that at times I have been lax in my changing soiled diapers in front of the other children. And, Tele is saying the truth that children are more sensative to this than adults. Many a time I have caught prying eyes when I am taking care of an infant.

    I have never found the  need to let my six children run around naked due to sickness or diaper rash. A soak in cool water takes out the burn and calendula creme takes care of the nastiest rash without their bottoms hanging out.

    Modernism has crept in so heavily that we take the words of Saints as being out of date or not relevant to our enlightened time. I think that is a sad statement indeed.