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Author Topic: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress  (Read 7524 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
« on: November 11, 2021, 02:42:25 AM »
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  • From: https://www.salvemariaregina.info/Modesty.html

    The Marylike Standards for Modesty in Dress (as set down by the Vatican)

    "A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper."  (The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI)

    The standard set by the Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI (quoted above) is meant to delineate between "decent" and indecent; it would be sinful to wear clothes which "cannot be called decent."



    1. "Marylike" means modesty without compromise -- "like Mary," Christ's pure and spotless Mother.

    2. Marylike dresses have sleeves extending to the wrists; and skirts reaching the ankles.

    3. Marylike dresses require full and loose coverage for the bodice, chest, shoulders, and back; the cut-out about the neck must not exceed "two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat" and a similar breadth around the back of the neck.

    4. Marylike dresses also do not admit as modest coverage transparent fabrics -- laces, nets, organdy, nylons, etc. -- unless sufficient backing is added. Fabrics such as laces, nets, organdy may be moderately used as trimmings only.

    5. Marylike dresses avoid the improper use of flesh-colored fabrics.

    6. Marylike dresses conceal rather than reveal the figure of the wearer; they do not emphasize, unduly, parts of the body.

    7. Marylike dresses provide full coverage, even after jacket, cape or stole are removed.

    8. Marylike fashions are designed to conceal as much of the body as possible, rather than reveal. This would automatically eliminate such fashions as slacks, jeans, shorts, culottes, tight sweaters, sheer blouses, and sleeveless dresses; etc. The Marylike standards are a guide to instill a "sense of modesty." A girl or woman who follows these, and looks up to Mary as her ideal and model, will have no problem with modesty in dress. She will not be an occasion of sin or source of embarrassment or shame to others.

    Keep this guide with you when buying clothes. Make sure that you purchase or make only garments which meet the Marylike Standards.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2021, 02:48:16 AM »
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  • P.S.- a thanks to XavierSem for bringing this Marylike dress code to our attention in another thread.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #2 on: November 11, 2021, 04:57:23 AM »
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  • Just curious.  Does anyone on CI always wear dresses (or skirts and tops) that fit LastTrad’s  interpretation of Mary Like clothing?
    See #2 Mary-like dresses have sleeves extending to the wrists; and skirts reaching the ankles.  I’m by no means advocating immodesty, but the only women I know who consistently meet this standard are either conservative Muslims, the most conservative of the Amish, and perhaps some traditional nuns.  
    Outside of sewing them yourself, a skill which very few women have these days, or paying someone else to sew them for you—-very expensive—-it’s nearly impossible to purchase such a garment outside of a Muslim store that sells those dresses that meet these standards, but are drab, shapeless sacks.  Mary’s clothes are beautiful, even in the apparitions where she appears weeping.  

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2021, 05:48:24 AM »
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  • It’s hard to find dresses like that.  I found a long floral dress, with short sleeves like this picture of young woman   In Birkenstocks. 



    I have found skirts.

    I’m a fashion hit and miss. 

    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2021, 06:09:44 AM »
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  • It’s hard to find dresses like that.  I found a long floral dress, with short sleeves like this picture of young woman  In Birkenstocks.



    I have found skirts.

    I’m a fashion hit and miss.
    Pretty nice, but the neckline doesn’t qualify at all, or sleeves, or length, not sure about showing shape of the body.  This person is clearly female if you look only at her silhouette from neck to mid-thigh.  You could wear a white or beige shirt that comes up to the neckline beneath the dress, but it might look lumpy around the waistline.  It’s not the style of dress that looks good with a big scarf.  An attractive V-shaped silk filler with some sort of trim could be sewn in front, again, requires sewing skills, because if it isn’t fitted just right, it’ll look exactly like someone who tried to add on a cover up.  Maybe a ruffle of the same cloth added to the hem, a bit overdone, IMO, and the sleeves there’s no extending without looking ridiculous.  You’d have to wear a sweater or shawl, but that doesn’t meet these standards because they’re removable accessories.  
    The only solution I can think of that would meet the standards and look good would be to buy two dresses and use the cloth from the extra to fill in the neckline, lengthen the hem to the ankles, and remake the sleeves.  But if you’re going to pay double and go to that much trouble, you may as well buy cloth and make the dress, or, for most trad women, pay someone to make it for you!  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #5 on: November 11, 2021, 06:19:21 AM »
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  • Just curious.  Does anyone on CI always wear dresses (or skirts and tops) that fit LastTrad’s  interpretation of Mary Like clothing?

    To be fair, these standards comes from the Holy See ... at least the part from Pius XI, and the other general standards from whoever wrote the "Marylike" thing.  So this isn't LastTrad's interpretation of anything.  It's pretty concrete and detailed.

    If I recall the longer text from the Holy See, some concessions were made due to the unavailability of fashions.  So, for instance, in the longer version of the docuмent, the Holy See conceded half-length sleeves that didn't have to go to the elbow, simply because elbow-length sleeves are impossible to find.  So the "bolded" version about elbow-length sleeves was later modified by the Holy See to at least half-length sleeves.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2021, 06:21:21 AM »
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  • Neckline....oops.  

    I have been finding really cool tops that are cute and look pioneer/western and are long sleeve with high neck.





    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #7 on: November 11, 2021, 06:57:18 AM »
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  • Was going to add this on to comment, but it’s a separate idea.

    Does anyone know of trad women or any women willing and able to come to trad chapels to give free or low cost sewing lessons for the girls and women?  If they really knew how to sew, I think trad women would dress more modestly than at present.  Nobody, or almost nobody, young women especially, wants to look like a frumpy housewife dressed to scrub the bathroom floor.  
    (The long, loose denim jumper is fine for that purpose, but who goes to Mass or into town in it?  Even those who seldom go out want to look well.  Husbands, I think, like to be greeted by a wife who takes care to spruce herself up before Rosary and dinner.  IMO, men who do manual labor who arrive dirty and sweaty should also wash up and change clothes.)
    A woman who can sew with skill and ease will save money and see to it she is modestly and attractively attired.  She can pass the skill on to her daughters and make clothes for them instead of making discouraging, stressful trips to the stores or have to mail back the clothes ordered online.  The men and boys, also, can benefit from home sewing.  Men’s clothing is generally not as problematic as for women and girls, but too often, otherwise good clothing ends up in the bin for want of knowing how to remove and replace a pants zipper or fix a torn collar.  This is all assuming the woman and maybe older daughters have the time to learn and then to sew.  It’s not a skill acquired overnight or by taking an evening class once a week for three months.  If a woman has to work outside the home, or from home at a paying job, full time, even half time, there won’t be much time for sewing.  It’s a time consuming activity, even when mastered.  But some trads can at least make a start.  

    (A half-serious note!  If some men are so adamant about women’s attire being up to a standard commercially unavailable or unaffordable, perhaps they, too, can learn to sew.  After all, men are tailors, and in the past, did jobs that required some form of skilled sewing! Shoemakers, fishermen, sailors, tent makers, upholsterers, etc.  St. Paul and St. Peter surely knew how to sew!  Tents, nets, and sails!)

    I do know a place where a woman can get modest and fashionable clothes made to order.  The drawbacks are cost and location.  You have to go to Brooklyn, NY for your fittings, and the average dress price is $350-$450. That was in 2015. A woman from my workplace had a custom made dress made for her son’s wedding.  She paid about $800.  All the dresses available commercially in her size, very petite, were either obviously for little girls or they were slutty.  The few modest dresses came in black only, traditional mourning for funerals!  There were two seamstresses, a mother and daughter, in a basement with a sign in Yiddish, but it wasn’t actually Yiddish.  It was English written right to left with Hebrew (Yiddish) characters!  I knew about the place because there’s a long traffic light right next to it at which I’ve been stuck a few times.  I amused myself by trying to sound out the various writing on signs.  It’s a Hasidic way of keeping separate from the goyim.  But if a goy is smart enough to figure it out, they’ll gladly take your money!  Probably they’d set the limit at making things specifically Catholic or nαzι!  And that’s their right, just like the “Christian” couple in the bakery who refused to make the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ wedding cake.  

    Maybe Catholics could even open their own business, with the signs in Latin script!


    Offline Puzzle

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #8 on: November 11, 2021, 07:07:29 AM »
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  • Even potato sack dresses don't fit mary-like standards.

    It is very difficult to find long dresses or skirts, and not very practical especially working the land.  Long sleeve blouses are not always practical either, as they stain more easily and are overly hot in the southern summer months.

    As for wearing to church, it is certainly reasonable to dress mary-like but then women become sunday-only Catholics.

    The only people I have seen dress mary-like in this day and age are strict Muslims, Amish, and some pentecostal protestants.  

    Perhaps it is time we take mary-like standards back from those who do not venerate Mary.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #9 on: November 11, 2021, 07:29:59 AM »
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  • I may get downvoted and flogged like the kids in the schoolyard scene in The Birds for saying this, but might it be a plan, to seek out Orthodox Jєωιѕн fashion houses who specialize in producing women's apparel that meets tznius ("snoose") requirements, which are basically identical to Marylike standards?  I won't provide links, we all know how to use search engines.  Just a thought.

    I really don't think those merchants would turn away money from Catholics.  Never happened before.  Turning away money isn't their thing.

    Sorry, the Angry Birds character was just too good to resist:


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #10 on: November 11, 2021, 07:33:59 AM »
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  • "A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper."  (The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI)

    The standard set by the Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI (quoted above) is meant to delineate between "decent" and indecent; it would be sinful to wear clothes which "cannot be called decent."



    2. Marylike dresses have sleeves extending to the wrists; and skirts reaching the ankles.

    In the OP I had highlighted the sleeves and shirts part to show the contrast, one sets the liberal limits, the other the Marylike, which is the standard Our Lady set.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #11 on: November 11, 2021, 07:37:51 AM »
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  • To be fair, these standards comes from the Holy See ... at least the part from Pius XI, and the other general standards from whoever wrote the "Marylike" thing.  So this isn't LastTrad's interpretation of anything.  It's pretty concrete and detailed.

    If I recall the longer text from the Holy See, some concessions were made due to the unavailability of fashions.  So, for instance, in the longer version of the docuмent, the Holy See conceded half-length sleeves that didn't have to go to the elbow, simply because elbow-length sleeves are impossible to find.  So the "bolded" version about elbow-length sleeves was later modified by the Holy See to at least half-length sleeves.
    My mistake.  I didn’t know there were two versions and this was the original.  Sorry, Tradhican!  Pius XI was Pope 1922-1939, so already it was difficult to find ready to wear clothing that was Mary-like.  I’d like to know when the original dates from, and compare it Padre Pio’s requirements.  I’m pretty sure he said hems should be 8” below the knee, but that really doesn’t tell you much because women vary tremendously in height and leg length.  My school friend Patty almost qualified as being what we’d today call a small person.  Even as an adult, if she put on a dress eight inches below the knee, she’d literally be tripping on it.  One of my cousins, however, who is six ft., eight inches would be closer to the knee than the ankle.  

    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #12 on: November 11, 2021, 07:48:35 AM »
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  • Was going to add this on to comment, but it’s a separate idea.

    Does anyone know of trad women or any women willing and able to come to trad chapels to give free or low cost sewing lessons for the girls and women?  If they really knew how to sew, I think trad women would dress more modestly than at present.  Nobody, or almost nobody, young women especially, wants to look like a frumpy housewife dressed to scrub the bathroom floor. 
    (The long, loose denim jumper is fine for that purpose, but who goes to Mass or into town in it?  Even those who seldom go out want to look well.  Husbands, I think, like to be greeted by a wife who takes care to spruce herself up before Rosary and dinner.  IMO, men who do manual labor who arrive dirty and sweaty should also wash up and change clothes.)
    A woman who can sew with skill and ease will save money and see to it she is modestly and attractively attired.  She can pass the skill on to her daughters and make clothes for them instead of making discouraging, stressful trips to the stores or have to mail back the clothes ordered online.
    Man and Father here.

    At my parish, I literally only know one mom who sews, she has handed down some of her handmade dresses to my daughters. I bought a Pfaff 130 a couple years ago, but my wife has never bothered learning to sew on it. I was going to use it to so some light hemming and stuff because it's cheaper to do it yourself than take it somewhere. But she has shown zero interest in learning these skills. It's really pathetic that women nowadays don't sew, especially traditional Catholic women who should be leading the culture when it comes to modest attire and setting the example for our degenerate culture. Even amongst traditional Catholic women it's hard to find some that flat out refuse to wear pants, most of them wear pants at home. They'd rather buy some borderline modest dress from the store than bother sewing because "it's so hard" taking care of little ones, cleaning the house, making meals, etc. Convenience culture is destroying our society.

    Catholic women's problem today is they complain too much and have a horror of holy suffering. Their grandmother's and great-grandmother's of old put them to shame in terms of what they achieved and did in a day.

    I really hate to say this because I don't like criticizing people, but traditional Catholic women today need to wake up. I know plenty of traditional fathers who try their best to encourage their wives, even under obedience, literally commanding it, for their own good, that they dress more modestly and learn better homemaker skills, only to be told "no, I'm not doing that". Traditional Catholic women!

    What is up with that? I see it all the time with "traditional" wives. I could rant for hours on this topic because it is infuriating to me as a husband and father. Traditional Catholic women today think they know best, they think they know more than their husbands, it's really sad and it's an utter lack of humility.

    Women claim we're not leading them, but when we try to, they flat out disobey. How do you lead a disobedient wife? How do you lead someone who doesn't want to be lead? You can't. She has to will it. And now with no-fault divorce and all the other modern problems, it makes matters 1000x worse for trying to lead because she can just leave whenever she wants and take half your assets because "irreconcilable differences." Modern society is going to collapse.

    Sorry, I don't mean to rant, but this is a topic that really gets me going and priests are doing nothing about it, nor are the women. Men have unimaginable burdens these days even with so-called traditional Catholic wives.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #13 on: November 11, 2021, 07:56:48 AM »
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  • I may get downvoted and flogged like the kids in the schoolyard scene in The Birds for saying this, but might it be a plan, to seek out Orthodox Jєωιѕн fashion houses who specialize in producing women's apparel that meets tznius ("snoose") requirements, which are basically identical to Marylike standards?  I won't provide links, we all know how to use search engines.  Just a thought.

    I really don't think those merchants would turn away money from Catholics.  Never happened before.  Turning away money isn't their thing.

    Sorry, the Angry Birds character was just too good to resist:

    Yes.  I have seen many orthodox women dressed really beautifully at mall while thin  Catholic women dressed in tight revealing yoga pants athletic clothes with their obese teenage girls wearing their Catholic uniforms up their butts with black stockings that have rips in them waiting in line at the Starbucks. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #14 on: November 11, 2021, 08:01:02 AM »
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  • My husband says that he didn’t like my skorts this morning because it looked like 
    A feed bag.   
    May God bless you and keep you