Author Topic: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress  (Read 3933 times)

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Offline StLouisIX

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Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
« Reply #105 on: November 19, 2021, 10:41:04 PM »
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  • I'm not sure if Gustave Doré was a practicing Catholic or not, but he was a famous French artist from the 19th century who illustrated the Bible and the Divine Comedy. Something very interesting, in my view, is that when illustrating the Inferno, he chose to portray the damned as being naked (which is common in many other depictions of Hell throughout history), but when he illustrated the Paradiso he has the just fully clothed. Quite different from Michelangelo's artistic decisions.

    Here are two examples of this distinction in his work:




    Inferno XV (The Violent Against Nature) 






    Paradiso III (The Inconstant) 


    As an aside: I would prefer it if we kept the discussion about controversial Catholic art in the new thread dedicated to that topic instead of derailing this one.

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #106 on: November 19, 2021, 10:53:14 PM »
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  • I honestly never understood why the Sistine Chapel was so highly regarded in the art world. I much prefer other paintings by other artists. The conclusion I came to was that since for so long the art world was full of perverts going back to at least the renaissance, the high esteem the perverted artists gave to the Sistine Chapel was because they were celebrating the entrance of such perversion into the Heart of the Church.

    Savonarola had a lot of perverted art from that time period burned publicly, which gets him villainized today. People don't seem to understand that he wasn't opposed to art in principle (The beautiful art that was made by the Dominican brothers of the priory of San Marco during this time period is solid proof of this), but rather he wanted to stamp out perverted art, as he understood its damaging effects on a society that ought to be in all things Christian. His "Bonfire of the Vanities" was entirely justified. In terms of the clergy of his time, he was a lion among the wolves. He led the charge against the immorality of his era, and we have much to learn from him. As implied from other posts, Savonarola died before the Sistine Chapel was painted, so we don't know what his reaction would have been to Michelangelo's decisions regarding it. 


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #107 on: November 19, 2021, 10:57:58 PM »
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  • This thread is entitled Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress, who and where did someone turn it into a sodomite discussion?

    Who wants to even hear of such filthiness, let alone see paintings and discussions on it?

    "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you, as becometh saints" (Eph 5:3)
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #108 on: November 20, 2021, 12:16:27 AM »
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  • Have you ever seen the chapel in person Nadir?
    I never have seen the real one but a number of years ago I was able to go to a traveling exhibit of artifacts from the Vatican that had a miniature of the chapel scaled down to about 10 feet tall. Unfortunately each person only had about 5 minutes before having to move on. The detail was amazing.
    No, Emile. I never have. Only images. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #109 on: November 22, 2021, 04:33:44 PM »
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  • I get questions from you now and again and I think the answers could be beneficial to others and so I have posted them here….I have changed some words to protect anonymity.
    Disclaimer: If in doubt with anything I say, please check with your spiritual director. He knows you and your situation and has the grace of state to advise you.
    Question: What is the reason you and your daughters wear dresses vs. slacks? I think it’s wonderful but would like to know the thoughts behind it. Thank you.
    Answer: Thank you for your question and well, since you asked…
    I am not a confrontational person…at least I don’t think I am. So I would like to be able to say that what a woman wears is a personal choice, it is up to them. But, I think all of us would have to admit, this is not true in so many spheres of the moral order. What we do (and what we wear) affects those around us…greatly! Especially our men, when it comes to our clothing. So here is why we don’t wear slacks…
    Pants accentuates our curves. It’s as simple as that. A skirt is more modest and concealing, (provided the woman/girl is wearing a modest skirt).
    They are also more feminine. This is what Father Ripperger has to say:
    While it is not sinful for a woman to wear pants, nevertheless it is more perfect or virtuous for a woman to wear a dress rather than pants. It more perfectly fits her as a woman. It is more feminine. Therefore it is more modest because it is more decorous. 
    I remember reading an article about the Latin Mass. It said that the liturgy will actually form who we are, if we give it enough time. The more we attend, the more It will change us on the inside..
    Well, I feel the same way about our dress.
    There is a saying….
    “The body is the shell of the soul, and the dress the husk of that shell. But the husk often tells what the kernel is.”
    What is that saying to us? Our externals matter. Our husk, our clothing, reveals who we are on the inside. And on the reverse, our mode of dressing, will work to change us intimately, too.
    The virtuous person will manifest this virtue through the use of proper dress.
    From Cardinal Siri, 1960:
    The clothes a person wears conditions, determines and modifies that person’s gestures, attitudes and behavior such that from merely being worn on the outside, clothing comes to impose a particular frame of mind on the inside. So when a person changes their dress it will change how that person views her self image. On the converse of that, if she has a distorted self-image it will be manifested in her dress.
    Fr. Ripperger:
    Women who go back to dressing like women find an inner change which occurs within them. They feel more feminine. Which is a good thing…femininity is a perfection proper to a woman. And those perfections are very admirable.
    I believe and have experienced this myself, that when we, as women, dress like women, we will change. We will become more feminine in what we do, the way we walk, the activities we take part in, the way we think. This is good. We will see a very positive change in ourselves. We will also see a positive change in how others treat us.
    Another important tidbit was something I read quite a bit later along my modesty journey.  And it served to reinforce in me and my girls our decision as a family. It was this…
    From Dressing With Dignity:
    Advertising agencies quickly prepared marketing research to find out the reaction of men to a woman wearing pants. Do you know what they found? Using newly developed technology, they tracked the path that a man’s eyes take when looking at a woman in pants. 
    They found that when a man looked at a woman in pants from the back, he looked directly at her bottom. When he looked at a woman wearing pants from the front, advertisers found that his eyes dropped directly to a woman’s most private and intimate area. Not her face! Not her chest! 
    Advertisers figured out a long time ago how to apply Gestalt psychology and the Law of Closure (Humans tend to enclose a space by completing a contour and ignoring gaps in the figure) and the Law of Good Continuation (Humans tend to continue contours whenever the elements of the pattern establish an implied direction) when devising advertising that is aimed at men. 
    Gracious, what does all of that mean? It means that the eye will follow a line, and a viewer will complete the picture with his or her imagination. 
    Advertisers know that the same holds true when a man views a woman wearing slacks or a skirt with slits. Men’s eyes will follow the lines right up her legs and finish the picture in their imagination. 
    Women’s eyes may do the same thing, but since women don’t have the same type of temptations, their imaginations don’t complete the picture in the same way as men’s do.
    Because we have raised our girls in dresses, this negative aspect of why we dress modestly is not something we dwell on too much.  We don’t think about it…dressing this way is part of who we are. And we like to focus on the positive aspects of wearing dresses. There are so many…
    Consistently wearing dresses may seem over-the-top to many these days. And that’s okay. The rewards are great! (And every one of my daughters and daughters-in-law will attest to that!)

     
    Cardinal Siri wrote a strong article in support of dresses for women. The article is here.

    This Maglet (magazine/booklet) is for you…dear young (and not-so-young), Catholic, Feminine Soul. It is a compilation of traditional, valuable Catholic articles on the subjects that touch the hearts of serious-minded Catholic young ladies. There are articles on courtship, purity, singleness, vocation, prayer, confession, friends, tea parties, obedience, etc. This information is solid, written by orthodox Catholic writers (most of them gone to their eternal home) that cared about the proper formation of a young Catholic adult in a confused world. Take this information to heart and your journey through adulthood will be filled with many blessings! It is 40 pages, packed with information. See photo for Table of Contents.
    My Disclaimer: This book is, in general, appropriate for ages 14 and up. There are some articles on purity in courtship, etc. These do not go into graphic detail but you are the only ones to decide if it is good timing. I would let my own 14 year old read it. If she came up with questions, good. I would answer them. Ignorance is not innocence.


    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #110 on: November 22, 2021, 04:39:45 PM »
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  •  


    THE REQUIREMENTS FOR MODESTY IN DRESS

    LOOK TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY AS A PERFECT EXAMPLE

    In order to benefit from reading this article it is highly recommended that you say the following prayer from Sacred Scripture:  "Speak Lord, your servant listens." (Kings 3:9)  It is also necessary to reflect on the virtue of humility which is the indispensable foundation of all Christian life.  This truth God wished especially to impress upon us by His Incarnation, when "He humbled Himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to death on a cross." (Phil. 2:8)  We are also taught in the Holy Bible that:  "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble." (James 4:6)  It is realized that this appeal will only affect a few because Our Lord tells us by another passage that the road to hell is broad and many are those who go in thereat.  How narrow is the gate and straight is the way that leadeth to life, and few there are who find it! (Matt. 7:13-14)  But if this article eliminates only one mortal sin, it will be worth the effort. 
    In regard to modesty in dress and deportment, let us first consider what the Holy Bible has to say on this subject:  "In like manner I wish women to be decently dressed, adorning themselves with modesty and dignity, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but with good works, such as become women professing Godliness." (1 Tim. 2:9-10) 
    Modesty should be promoted by mothers in their children from early infancy.  Many foolish mothers train their little daughters to consider scanty attire as the normal thing.  Let such mothers take to heart the serious admonition of Pope Pius XII:  "O Christian mothers, if you knew what a future of anxieties and perils, of ill-guarded shame you prepare for your sons and daughters, imprudently getting them accustomed to live scantily dressed and making them lose the sense of modesty, you would be ashamed of yourselves and you would dread the harm you are making for yourselves, the harm which you are causing these children, whom Heaven has entrusted to you to be brought up as Christians." 
    Purity is like a precious pearl; it is purchased at a great price, retained only with great care and watchfulness and easily lost or destroyed.  Beware of pride and flattery, as arch-enemies of your purity.  You may not be finely dressed or pretty and graceful; you may not have those attractions which are most admired by the world; but if you have the virtues of modesty and purity you have something which money cannot buy and an ornament which will outlast all the fading treasures of earth.  "How beautiful then is modesty and what a gem among virtues it is." (St. Bernard, Confessor and Doctor of the Church) 
    Let us listen to the Holy Ghost speaking to us again in the Holy Bible:  "Do not love the world, or the things that are in the world.  If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because all that is in the world is the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life; which is not from the Father, but from the world.  And the world with its lust is passing away but he who does the will of God abides forever." (1 St. John 2:15, 17) 
    Our Sorrowful and Immaculate Mother, who in all Her apparitions is fully covered, is presented by Her divine Son to us as the perfect model of modesty and purity.  She is terribly saddened by the immodest and impure conduct so prevalent in our society.  Our Lord speaks to us through His Blessed Mother in condemning the modern trends of uncovering the body.  In fact, Our Lady came down from heaven to warn against this disrobing trend.  Listen to what She revealed to little ten-year-old Jacinta of Fatima while she was dying in a hospital in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1920:  "Certain fashions will be introduced which will offend Our Divine Lord very much.  Those who serve God ought not to follow these fashions.  Our Lord is always the same."  And she also revealed to Jacinta that "the sins that lead most souls to Hell are the sins of the flesh." 

    Now let us look at pictures of Our Lady in three of Her most famous apparitions.


    In Her appearance to Blessed Juan Diego in Mexico, She left a self portrait which has been miraculously preserved for over four centuries.  It is on display in the Basilica in Mexico City.  The pictures of Our Blessed Mother as She appeared at Lourdes to St. Bernadette and to the three children at Fatima are from descriptions provided by the seers.  These appearances occurred over a period of more than four centuries, but see how Her dress is always the same. 
    Ladies, men, girls and boys should always wear clothing that they would not be ashamed of in the sight of God.  This would certainly eliminate shorts, bathing suits and pants for females.  Christ's words are very clear:  "A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel; for he that doeth these things is abominable before God." (Deut.22:5)  If Christ said that the sexes should not wear each other's clothes, it stands to reason there is a distinct difference in men and women's clothes.  Now let us reflect again on how the Mother of our Savior has been adorned in Her various appearances.  Can you imagine Her wearing slacks?  How can we say that we have a true devotion to Our Blessed Mother and continue to follow worldly fashions and trends?  Should we not follow her perfect example? 
    Now if you are inclined to think that what this paper suggests is not really necessary or that it is too demanding, reflect again on how few take that narrow path to Heaven and how many lose their souls.  It seems that very few people really think of Hell and think that not too many go there.  Yet Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, warned that "few find the narrow way to life, but many find the broad way to Hell." (Mt. 7:13-14)  So we cannot dispute this argument for we know His words are infallibly true.  But how many are saved?  St. Bonaventure, once speaking in Constantinople, asked this question and, giving his own answer, said:  "Of all the thousands in this city, how many will be saved?  How ought I to answer this question, or ought I answer it at all?  Perhaps hardly a hundred.  Would to God I could be certain of so many.  " When St. Bernard died, a holy anchorite who had also died at the same time appeared to the bishop of Langres and told him that 30,000 had died at the same time.  He and St. Bernard went straight to Heaven, 3 others went to Purgatory and all the rest were damned. 
    Father Eusebius Nieremburg, who resided at the College of Madrid, where he died in the odor of sanctity in 1658, relates the story of a noble and exceedingly pious lady, who asked God to make known to her what displeased His Divine Majesty most in persons of her sex.  The Lord vouchsafed in a miraculous manner to hear her.  He opened under her eyes the eternal abyss. There she saw a woman a prey to cruel torments and in her recognized one of her friends, a short time before deceased.  This sight caused her as much astonishment as grief:  the person whom she saw damned did not seem to her to have lived badly.  Then that unhappy soul said to her:  "It is true that I practiced religion, but I was a slave of vanity.  Ruled by the passion to please, I was not afraid to adopt indecent fashions to attract attention, and I enkindled the fire of impurity in more than one heart.  Ah!  If Christian women knew how much immodesty in dress displeases God!"  At the same moment, this unhappy soul was pierced by two fiery lances and plunged into a caldron of liquid lead. 
    St. John Chrysostom (347-407), the illustrious Bishop of Constantinople and one of the 32 doctors of the Church, had this to say about women who dress immodestly:  "You carry your snare everywhere and spread your net in all places.  You allege that you never invited others to sin.  You did not indeed by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment.  And much more effectively than you could by your voice.  When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent?  Tell me whom does this world condemn?  Whom do the judges in court punish?  Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion?  You are more criminal than those who poison the body.  You have given the death-dealing drink.  You murder not the body but the soul, and it is not to enemies do you do this nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity nor provoked by injury.  But you do it out of foolish vanity and pride."
    Woe to women who dress immodestly!  Woe to fathers and husbands who do not correct their wives and daughters!  Woe to pastors of souls if they remain silent!  Woe to us, for this is one of the sins which causes most souls to go to Hell, sins of the flesh.  "O that they would be wise and would understand and would provide for their latter end." (Deut.32:29)  "There is a way that seemeth just to a man; but the ends thereof leadeth to death." (Prov.14:12)  "Few find the narrow way to life."
    The problem of salvation is a very difficult thing; for according to the maxims of the theologians, when an end demands great efforts, only a few attain it; but not to make every effort to avoid eternal damnation and to make sure of one's salvation is something inconceivable.  God wants all men to be saved.  He tells us so in the Holy Bible; that He enlightens every man that cometh into this world.  In a hundred places in Holy Scripture, God tells us that it is truly His desire to save all men.  "I live, saith the Lord God.  I desire not the death of the sinner.  Be converted and live." (Ex.18-32)  He provides us with all the means most proper for us to be saved. 
    Now let us listen to St. Anselm, Bishop, Confessor and Doctor of the Church, on this matter of salvation:  "If you want to be certain of being in the number of the Elect, strive to be one of the few, not one of the many.  And if you would be quite sure of your salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few; that is to say:  do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or night, so that they may attain everlasting blessedness."
    Let this paper be ended on a positive note.  The eminent way to protect and nourish an unsullied and perfect chastity, as proven by experience time and again throughout the course of centuries, is solid and fervent devotion to the Virgin Mother of God.  St. Gregory of Nicomedia encourages sinners by assurance if they have recourse to Our Blessed Mother, with a determination to amend their lives, She will save them by Her intercession.  To obtain favors from Our Lady, we must perform certain devotions practiced by Her servants:  First, to recite at least five decades of her Rosary every day.  Second, to wear the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel.  Third, to have a picture or a statue of Our Lady in our home and recite Her litany every day.  There are other devotions by the servants of Mary, but most of all we should recommend ourselves frequently to Her in prayer.  "If you persevere until death in true devotion to Mary, your salvation is certain" (St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori, Bishop and Doctor of the Church). 
    You are urged to adopt a true devotion to Mary by beginning to practice the exercises listed above.  This is a small price to pay to be assured of our eternal salvation. 



    Copies of this item available from:
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    Prospect, KY 40059

    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #111 on: November 22, 2021, 06:37:25 PM »
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  • Just skimming over it and kind of "reading it for the plot", as it were, this paper is well worth reading.

    The "Marylike Code" on pages 75 and 76 is golden.
    Starting on page 55 she quotes an article by Fr. Woywod (I assume the same one of Canon Law commentary fame).

    https://archive.org/details/sim_homiletic-pastoral-review_1931-07_31_10/page/1099/mode/1up  (starts about half-way down the page)


    While searching for the above I came across a line in an article on instructing converts that struck me:

    "Sincere souls do not fix their attention on the human shortcomings of the Church."

    https://archive.org/details/sim_homiletic-pastoral-review_1930-11_31_2/page/119/mode/1up
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #112 on: November 23, 2021, 08:24:58 AM »
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  • Sincere souls aren’t lukewarm and indifferent to any sin. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #113 on: November 23, 2021, 03:59:15 PM »
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  • cf. Shein.com's "Modest"-tagged dresses (though occasionally a few immodest necklines crop up)
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #114 on: November 27, 2021, 07:53:29 AM »
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  • To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #115 on: November 27, 2021, 08:49:33 AM »
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  • To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #116 on: November 27, 2021, 08:51:52 AM »
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  • To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #117 on: November 27, 2021, 09:12:14 AM »
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  • To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #118 on: November 27, 2021, 07:11:09 PM »
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  • Ew! I find that ugly, sloppy and with style. Looks like she grabbed anything at all when someone knocked on the door when she was home alone and under the shower. Though the others you posted are quite stylish
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Modest Dress In Women Detailed - How to Dress
    « Reply #119 on: November 28, 2021, 11:32:09 AM »
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  • Ew! I find that ugly, sloppy and with style. Looks like she grabbed anything at all when someone knocked on the door when she was home alone and under the shower. Though the others you posted are quite stylish
    I agree. There are some who go to Mass dressed like that.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)