Author Topic: Minimum Requirements for Salvation  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline Cantarella

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Minimum Requirements for Salvation
« on: December 25, 2013, 11:04:27 PM »
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  • Is there an official list with the minimum requirements for Salvation?

    Thank you!
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline roscoe

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #1 on: December 25, 2013, 11:11:03 PM »
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  • Genesis 9:3
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 12:27:25 AM »
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  • A reasonable question but in the practical order, at least in the experience of most folks, settling for "minimums" is all but a guarantee of not achieving much of anything, let alone salvation.

    Naturally, the protestant conceit has built its entire rickety empire on selling just such poppycock.

    And, supernaturally, they automatically "predestined" themselves for hell, the whole lot of 'em.

    Any number of saints have mentioned that a crucial issue at the moment of death will be what we failed to do when it was in our power to have done it for the glory of God, the salvation of sinners and the remission of the guilt and debt of our own sins?

    That, it seems to me, is an incentive for a rather "maximum" effort, 24/7, on anyone's part - if one's really intent on eternal life.

    Metanoia is a lifelong commitment.

    [DISCLOSURE: I do not, for a minute, think that I live up to one of the standards I discussed, above. It was as much a severe reminder to myself as much as an exhortation to anyone reading it that I have MUCH to make up for.]

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 12:50:16 AM »
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  • As an encouragement:

    "A single act of uniformity with the divine will suffices to make a saint."
    [St Alphonsus de Liguori]

    Offline Nadir

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 01:09:04 AM »
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  • Matthew 25: [31] And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
    [36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.


    [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

    [41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
    [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.

    [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

    [46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 03:05:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Is there an official list with the minimum requirements for Salvation?

    Thank you!


    I was going to say this and then I read it:

    Quote from: Anthony Benedict
    A reasonable question but in the practical order, at least in the experience of most folks, settling for "minimums" is all but a guarantee of not achieving much of anything, let alone salvation.



    It should be our daily objective to pray to God at every opportunity.  

    St. Francis said we should become prayer.

    St. Francis was speaking of our works, our charitable acts, the things we did in our lifetime, how we helped the poor, the sick, the humble, the prisoner, the downtrodden.  For when we do good to others, especially those who hate us, we become prayer.

    Our objectives in prayer are to become holy, which is the same thing as conformity with God's will.  

    Quote from: Anthony Benedict

    "A single act of uniformity with the divine will suffices to make a saint."
    [St Alphonsus de Liguori]



    To practice perfecting our contrition for our sins is an endeavor most pleasing to God, as it conforms with His will.  To become capable of making a perfect act of contrition should be the primary objective of EVERY VISIT TO THE CONFESSIONAL.

    It takes a continuous lifetime effort to develop this elusive faculty of fallen man -- one which hardly anyone is able to achieve in this life but the greatest saints ALL did so;  and one cannot expect to wait until later or some other time, or in the worst case, until one is at death's door to develop perfect contrition.  

    A common feature of ALL the damned is the final incapacity to evoke a good act of contrition for their sins.

    All these things, and more, are of a nature in life's direction that is inimical to looking for the "minimum requirements for salvation."



    In the natural order there are analogous situations:

    If you were the owner of a small business taking applications and conducting interviews of prospective employees, would you be impressed with an applicant who only wants to know what the MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS are to satisfactorily fill the position?  

    If you ask a friend's daughter if she would be interested in babysitting for you and your spouse one evening, would you be pleased to hear her say, "What is the very LEAST that will be expected of me?"

    If you were a professor at a university, would you enjoy hearing in private consultation with individual students, one after the other asking, "Please inform me what are the LOWEST achievements necessary to get an 'A' in your class?"

    If you were the captain of a ship, how would you like to hear a sailor ask you during a storm, "Just let me know what the bare minimum is I need to do, to keep the ship from sinking?"  And then when the storm is over, how would you enjoy hearing the same sailor approach you to say, "Anytime you're ready, I'd like to know what bare minimum is I need to do to become First Mate?"  

    Does the army give medals of honor to soldiers who never did more than was absolutely required as a bare minimum or to avoid dishonorable discharge, and who looked for every opportunity to avoid having to do even those things?

    What would you think of a movie actor whose approach to his film career is, "I'm only interested in doing as little as I have to do to act well and to improve my reputation?"

    What chance does a political candidate have of being elected, whose approach is, "I have no interest in campaigning any harder than I absolutely HAVE to, in order to get elected?"

    .
    .
    .

    And in the spiritual order, what would you expect the record of one would be, to whom God says at his particular judgment, "Come, you faithful servant, and enter into the mansion that I have prepared for you from the foundation of the world?"

    Do you suppose that would be one who lived his life looking for the minimum requirements for salvation?

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    Offline Cantarella

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 12:35:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Is there an official list with the minimum requirements for Salvation?

    Thank you!


    I was going to say this and then I read it:

    Quote from: Anthony Benedict
    A reasonable question but in the practical order, at least in the experience of most folks, settling for "minimums" is all but a guarantee of not achieving much of anything, let alone salvation.



    It should be our daily objective to pray to God at every opportunity.  

    St. Francis said we should become prayer.

    St. Francis was speaking of our works, our charitable acts, the things we did in our lifetime, how we helped the poor, the sick, the humble, the prisoner, the downtrodden.  For when we do good to others, especially those who hate us, we become prayer.

    Our objectives in prayer are to become holy, which is the same thing as conformity with God's will.  

    Quote from: Anthony Benedict

    "A single act of uniformity with the divine will suffices to make a saint."
    [St Alphonsus de Liguori]



    To practice perfecting our contrition for our sins is an endeavor most pleasing to God, as it conforms with His will.  To become capable of making a perfect act of contrition should be the primary objective of EVERY VISIT TO THE CONFESSIONAL.

    It takes a continuous lifetime effort to develop this elusive faculty of fallen man -- one which hardly anyone is able to achieve in this life but the greatest saints ALL did so;  and one cannot expect to wait until later or some other time, or in the worst case, until one is at death's door to develop perfect contrition.  

    A common feature of ALL the damned is the final incapacity to evoke a good act of contrition for their sins.

    All these things, and more, are of a nature in life's direction that is inimical to looking for the "minimum requirements for salvation."



    In the natural order there are analogous situations:

    If you were the owner of a small business taking applications and conducting interviews of prospective employees, would you be impressed with an applicant who only wants to know what the MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS are to satisfactorily fill the position?  

    If you ask a friend's daughter if she would be interested in babysitting for you and your spouse one evening, would you be pleased to hear her say, "What is the very LEAST that will be expected of me?"

    If you were a professor at a university, would you enjoy hearing in private consultation with individual students, one after the other asking, "Please inform me what are the LOWEST achievements necessary to get an 'A' in your class?"

    If you were the captain of a ship, how would you like to hear a sailor ask you during a storm, "Just let me know what the bare minimum is I need to do, to keep the ship from sinking?"  And then when the storm is over, how would you enjoy hearing the same sailor approach you to say, "Anytime you're ready, I'd like to know what bare minimum is I need to do to become First Mate?"  

    Does the army give medals of honor to soldiers who never did more than was absolutely required as a bare minimum or to avoid dishonorable discharge, and who looked for every opportunity to avoid having to do even those things?

    What would you think of a movie actor whose approach to his film career is, "I'm only interested in doing as little as I have to do to act well and to improve my reputation?"

    What chance does a political candidate have of being elected, whose approach is, "I have no interest in campaigning any harder than I absolutely HAVE to, in order to get elected?"

    .
    .
    .

    And in the spiritual order, what would you expect the record of one would be, to whom God says at his particular judgment, "Come, you faithful servant, and enter into the mansion that I have prepared for you from the foundation of the world?"

    Do you suppose that would be one who lived his life looking for the minimum requirements for salvation?

    .


    Excellent point, Neil Obstat. I did not ask the question trying to see how can I barely making it into Heaven. I am sorry I came across that way.

    The situation is that I have been asked by a Non - Catholic relative of mine what he needs to do in order to achieve Salvation, according to the Catholics? He resentfully said that all Catholics he's met had told him he is going to Hell unless he converts, which I could not deny.

    It is a very delicate conversation so I thought he would be a good idea if I found a compilation of official "requirements" for Salvation according to the Church. A book or article he could read to grasp a basic understanding on the topic.

    Again, I asked for the "minimum" not to lowers standards but because this person is a Non - Catholic, unknowledgeable of the Faith. He needs to be explained things on a rudimentary level and is not ready for complexities.



     




    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 01:57:15 PM »
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  • .

    This is interesting.  

    The question takes on an entirely new aspect because of this context.

    And the context is quite appropriate in our age when it has become very popular and commonplace for people to think that they can ignore the teachings of the Church and still "be okay with God" or something like that.  And it doesn't help this diabolical disorientation when the Pope has Assisi gatherings and 'ecumenical' events like that.

    Add to that the new outlook since Vat.II, by which Jansenism pervades our parishes to the effect that priests advise people with scruples to not go "overboard" with their devotions or don't become too "fanatical" about religion, as if it's not really all that important.  

    Any study of the lives of the saints shows that there wasn't one among them who wouldn't be considered a "fanatic" by today's standards.

    (I'm talking about traditional saints, not the Newsaints by and large.)

    We live in a time when mystics of old had wished they could have lived (in our time, instead of their own) because now there are so many opportunities for holiness and for becoming saintly.  This is the message your friend needs to hear, because he won't get it watching the TV News.

    Your OP question asks, how can one become a saint but not a GREAT saint.

    Because if you want to enter heaven you must become a saint, as only saints can go to heaven.  For most of us that means having to go to Purgatory on the way to heaven.

    Or, Cantarella,  your OP seems to say, I want to go to heaven but I want to seriously risk going to hell because I enjoy taking stupid risks.

    Or perhaps it says, since what the Church teaches is too difficult for me, there must be some exception whereby I can live in sin and still be rewarded as if I did not live in sin.  And then consequently, as with all of Liberalism, the exception becomes the rule, and everyone is NORMAL when they seek out the bare minimum for salvation, and anything more than that means you're really a fool.




    Jansenism advises, "Nothing too much!"  "No point in getting all worked up about this religion thing."  All false religions try to provide options for doing less than what the Catholic Church demands of those who would be saved.

    After all, if we're going to 'enjoy life' we have to commit a few mortal sins, just for fun -- what's wrong with that?  This false doctrine ignores how the saints all share a great HORROR of sin -- and rightly so, because it is the only thing that can send your soul to hell forever.  That's pretty important, and anyone who doesn't think so is an utter fool, for that's the essence of real folly.

    Now, just because heresy is commonplace, and it's everywhere you look, the unclean spirit of Vat.II would have the Church adopting this spirit of the world to accommodate the expectations of those outside the Church.  

    Like Pope St. Pius X cautions in Pascendi, that we should beware when novelty is introduced on the pretense of making adjustments to suit the NEEDS of the people and the NEEDS of the Church, even!  We should BEWARE of that.

    He did not say we should CATER to it, but that we should BEWARE of it.

    Of course, at Vat.II they threw that advice right out the window.  This was the great sin of Pope John XXIII -- and now they're claiming to glorify that great sin by making him into a Newsaint.  

    I know a priest from Hungary who says in all of Italy and France the Church has practically died out, because so-called Catholics in the main have stopped going to church -- 99% don't go to Mass anymore.  I asked him, "What about Rome, where the various basilicas are where our Cardinals are pastors, the cardinals who elect the new popes?" -- he just shrugged his shoulders.


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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 02:23:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    ... I have been asked by a Non-Catholic relative of mine what he needs to do in order to achieve Salvation, according to the Catholics? He resentfully said that all Catholics he's met had told him he is going to Hell unless he converts, which I could not deny.



    Non-Catholics usually appreciate it when you quote the Bible to them.  Is your friend willing to pay close attention to the words of Our Lord, when He answered this question?  What must a man do to be saved? ... And, I have done all these things, so is there anything else for me to do?  To which Our Lord answered, Go and sell all you have, give to the poor, and come, follow me.  

    Is your friend willing to learn what the Church teaches that means to us?  

    Is your friend willing to learn what it means to LOSE ALL ATTACHMENT TO SIN in this life because only those who are willing to give up their attachment to sin can enter into heaven -- and materialism is the means of much attachment to sin.


    Quote
    It is a very delicate conversation so I thought he would be a good idea if I found a compilation of official "requirements" for Salvation according to the Church. A book or article he could read to grasp a basic understanding on the topic.



    It's not a bad question, I just don't know of any such short list.  

    Scripture provides God's revelation on this topic;  the Two Great Commandments, and the answer to the rich young man, and John Chapter Six, in the Blessed Sacrament.  


    Quote
    Again, I asked for the "minimum" not to lower standards but because this person is a Non - Catholic, unknowledgeable of [in] the Faith. He needs to be explained things on a rudimentary level and is not ready for complexities.



    Jesus made it as simple as it can be.  

    There are two great Commandments, love God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind, and love your neighbor as you love yourself, doing it for the love of God.  First comes God, then comes your neighbor.  If you get that order backwards (like Pope Francis is wont to do) you've got a problem.  


    And if you want to avoid Purgatory, then lose all your stupid attachment to your sins.

    I don't know of any such short list, so I'll make one up for you.  

    IMHO:


    Anyone who does those three things will go to heaven, tell him:  

    1)  Love God without limits.

    2)  (Presuming you already love yourself, which is natural) love your neighbor as yourself for the love of God.

    3)  Lose ALL attachment to your sins.
    (This implies going to Confession regularly, and receiving the sacraments -- neither of which non-Catholics do!)



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    Offline Nadir

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 02:31:04 PM »
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  • Quote
    Mark 10:
    [17] And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man running up and kneeling before him, asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting? [18] And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God. [19] Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother. [20] But he answering, said to him: Master, all these things I have observed from my youth.

    [21] And Jesus looking on him, loved him, and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me. [22] Who being struck sad at that saying, went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


    Quote
    Luke 10:
    [25] And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life?

    [26] But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? [27] He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. [28] And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


    Quote
    Acts 16:
    [29] Then calling for a light, he went in, and trembling, fell down at the feet of Paul and Silas. [30] And bringing them out, he said: Masters, what must I do, that I may be saved?

    [31] But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. [32] And they preached the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house. [33] And he, taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately. [34] And when he had brought them into his own house, he laid the table for them, and rejoiced with all his house, believing God.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 03:41:40 PM »
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  • Thank you, Nadir.

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    Offline roscoe

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 04:16:09 PM »
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  • There is no need to speculate on the minimum requirements needed for Salvation as they are spelled out  in the Infallible Dogmatic Constitution of Holy Church ( Vatican Council).

    http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V1.HTM#4 and #6

    This is not an endorsement of ewtn
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline LoverOfTradition

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 05:34:53 PM »
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  • "Death, but not sin." -St. John Bosco

    Offline Cantarella

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 06:58:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: LoverOfTradition
    "Death, but not sin." -St. John Bosco


    So true! Can't get any more concise than that!
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline poche

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    Minimum Requirements for Salvation
    « Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 10:32:28 PM »
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  • to be in the state of sanctifying grace.


     

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