Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Millennials have lost the art of conversation.  (Read 2685 times)

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Offline ggreg

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Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
« on: September 07, 2013, 10:09:49 AM »
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  • http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23887807

    Very interesting video article about how 20 somethings have never developed an ability to engage humans 1 on 1 because of the mobile phone, video games and not being allowed out to play in the street or the local park.

    Want to be on six figures in the future?  Learn how to replace the generation of salespeople who are 20-30 years older than you.  Selling large business to business deals is, and always will be a personal thing built on meeting people and looking them in the eye.  Nobody in business spends over $100k without meeting a representative of the firm they are buying from and that rep nearly always gets a piece of the action.  No chinaman or computer can replace you in this role because people cannot chat with and form a close trusted relationship with an alien culture as easily as their own.  ( "How about those Mets?" Sounds very strange from a Chinaman or even a Mexican)

    Salespeople retire early. The best ones can afford to and the worst ones get fired or leave because they cannot make sales.  That means corporations are ALWAYS looking for fresh talent to start.

    It's a great job, if you can master it, because you often have you employer's balls in a bag.   If you are hitting targets and making them money you are one of the most important people in the company and VERY difficult to replace because of the combination of specific product knowledge and trusted relationships.  You can take days off, come in late leave early and there is nothing they can do about it.  Nor will they care if you make your numbers.

    It is ideal for a Catholic Father because you make your bones in your 20s and in your 30s and 40s it gets easier and less time consuming right about the time you need more time off work for the family.

    It is also the cornerstone of nearly all business.  Without sales no business can run.  With great sales you can run the rest of the business like an asshat and still make a profit.

    Skills required?  You have to like people and like talking to them.  College degree totally unnecessary.  When it gets technical you just roll in some guy wearing a pocket protector.  You sell VALUE to the senior people who control the purse strings.  They don't care a hoot how their fine suit is made, just that it fits them.

    So all you 20 somethings worrying about how 'the world has changed' and 'everything's a monopoly' and 'corporations only want cheap little chinamen doing everything', well HERE is an opportunity for you.  Something that in 2013 is a stronger opportunity for a young white native English speaker than in 1988 when I started out.  Especially one who is not wedded to his smartphone and Facebook account.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 11:10:33 AM »
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  • I noticed this dynamic when I was struggling along in the art world.  The ones with the sales pitch-no matter how shallow and stupid--were selling their work.  That was the time of the Cy Twomblys and the crowd nihilists making big bucks.  They used basically what you describe.  There was one spectacular example, whose name I forget, whose motto was "Live and Earn".


    Offline s2srea

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 11:18:12 AM »
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  • I work in sales, actually, and this is very true. I have no Bachelors degree, and someone in my office actually has no High School diploma. In our office, the lowest paid employee makes no less than 70k/ year. It is well known in my industry that the prospective buyer 'buys you, not the product.'

    Offline ggreg

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 11:18:25 AM »
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  • Well Catholics are taught to love our enemies and be a beacon of light and engage with the world and evangelise, so it would appear to me that professional selling should be an appropriate career choice.

    Offline s2srea

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 11:26:32 AM »
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  • Something to contend with, however, is that not all Catholics- especially Traditional ones, it seems- have the right temperament for sales. So we cannot, of course, view sales as the 'fix' to all of our problems. What do we do when we have a melancholic who has a great mental intellect, but may be introverted and quiet?


    Offline ggreg

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 11:46:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Something to contend with, however, is that not all Catholics- especially Traditional ones, it seems- have the right temperament for sales. So we cannot, of course, view sales as the 'fix' to all of our problems. What do we do when we have a melancholic who has a great mental intellect, but may be introverted and quiet?


    Internet blogger evangelist?  I hear they make reasonable money.  Just kidding.

    Seriously however, I guess the answer is that the people with the right temperament get job in corporations, do well, gain influence and then hire their friends from mass.  Pure nepotism.  My brother is a Chief Technology Officer and rather melancholic tech type and he has hired at least 10 Trads and given them a career start in financial data.  The first now works in a hedge fund and does very well indeed.  The second was my brother in law who now works at a leading investment bank programming algo trading computers and makes mega bucks at 25.  He is forever jetting around between Hong Kong, South Africa, New York.  He is about as introverted and intellectual as you could ever find, but an amazingly clever genius as well.

    Obviously, however, if those people come and work for an owner who is a Jew and in what is a very multiracial environment because they are translating and supporting financial data in different languages, then they have to learn to keep their opinions to themselves at work.  Not only does the big boss not appreciate paying someone who would like him in a gas oven, but my brother is likely going to be embarrassed by recommending them.  So the people with very strong views about the way they would like the world to be are sh!t out of luck I guess.

    "Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you, but don't ever side with anyone against the family again, ever."

    I employ one Trad myself and three Ukrainian Orthodox and a Greek Orthodox here in San Francisco, who actually goes to the Russian Orthodox because the Greek church in America is too modernist for her.  My Trad is a chap who had health problems and could no longer do his manual job.  Now he sits at a computer and does detailed research for me, looking up people I need to contact and making little dossiers about them and their contact details, including their direct and mobile numbers, so I can use the dossier when I contact them and be very knowledgable about every aspect of their business.

    It is my understanding that around these parts that is NOT a rare skill set.


    Offline Matto

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 01:43:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Not only does the big boss not appreciate paying someone who would like him in a gas oven

    You are fucked up for saying this as if trads want to put Jews in gas ovens.
    In a Station of the Metro
    The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.

    Offline Frances

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 01:53:59 PM »
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  •  :barf:
    Sorry, Ggreg, but the last thing I want in my handbag is my employer's balls!  Do you consider sales such as you describe an appropriate job for single Traditional Catholic woman?  If not, what DO you suggest?  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 01:57:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :barf:
    Sorry, Ggreg, but the last thing I want in my handbag is my employer's balls!  Do you consider sales such as you describe an appropriate job for single Traditional Catholic woman?  If not, what DO you suggest?  


    don't feed the troll Frances.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 02:00:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: ggreg
    Not only does the big boss not appreciate paying someone who would like him in a gas oven

    You are #### up for saying this as if trads want to put Jews in gas ovens.


    Good catch Matto.  It's very clear what his agenda is here.

    Offline Frances

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 02:08:47 PM »
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  •  :ready-to-eat:Even trolls get hungry!  I'm waiting for his answer.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Tiffany

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #11 on: September 07, 2013, 04:32:22 PM »
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  • It's not just quiet or not having the ability to make small talk or connect. Not everyone is comfortable forcing people into a buying decision or even in sales where the customer is ready to buy to push them to buy a higher priced product. Most people have a natural sense of empathy where they will somewhat "side" with the customer, not with the company they work for, they don't want to push or use pressure.
    If you really worked as a consultant Ggreg you would know there are different types of sales it's not just small talk. Someone who isn't real good at picking up on buying cues but great with product knowledge/features is more appropriate for some types of sales.

    Offline BTNYC

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #12 on: September 07, 2013, 05:36:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg


    Want to be on six figures in the future?  


    I see something of a recurring theme...

    Offline BTNYC

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #13 on: September 07, 2013, 05:43:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: ggreg
    Not only does the big boss not appreciate paying someone who would like him in a gas oven

    You are #### up for saying this as if trads want to put Jews in gas ovens.


    I didn't even stick around long enough to catch that.

    The obsession with filthy lucre and then this asinine use of a classic Christkiller's strawman...

    Thanks for outing yourself, Shylock.

    Offline Cuthbert

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    Millennials have lost the art of conversation.
    « Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 10:07:55 PM »
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  • Leaving the context of the topic as originally presented, being a good salesman &c. to one side, & thinking about it more from the standpoint of examining into some of the causes of the astonishing societal decline that has occurred over the past sixty or seventy years one can't help but notice that the intelligence of the general public has suffered a catastrophic decline. Modern people are sinking ever lower, I'm afraid that if God permitted things to go on as they're going now for another 100 years, the greater part of mankind would be reduced mentally almost to the level of the very beasts, they would become creatures like the eloi depicted in H.G. Wells's The Time Machine. Books printed for the general public 150 or 100 years ago are often unintelligible for moderns. They were never taught basic things such as the meaning of common grammatical terms. An Englishman of say 1880, who wanted to learn German would get a German grammar & learn how to compose grammatically correct sentences by memorizing things such as that any noun following the preposition wegen, because of, on account of, must be in the genitive case, wegen des regens, on account of the rain &c. Most young people now would find such a book useless, case? genitive? preposition? what are those things? They weren't taught history, geography, foreign languages, mathematics & so on, they were taught what a great man the communist negro agitator King was & how they should be ashamed of their own culture & ancestors. For the most part their minds have been entirely enervated by the wonderfully successful state schools, which are set up for this purpose. If God does not intervene the situation is utterly hopeless.

     

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