Author Topic: Struggling With A Particular Doctrine (Read 2650 times)

VerdenFell · « **on:** March 10, 2025, 11:14:05 AM »

I've only been a Traditional Catholic for a few years, having been raised in the novus ordo.
It's been a steep learning curve as one can imagine. To give you one small example,
Thomas Aquinas was never mentioned once in the twelve odd years I attended private
"Catholic" schools.
I have subsequently done a quite a bit of studying on my own: reading, listening to sermons and talks by a lot of
trad and sede priests and bishops.
Although I do accept ALL the teachings of the Church there is one which seems to cause me the
most doubt. I have heard Bp Williamson and others repeat on many occasions that God provides
each person with the necessary graces to save their soul.
Yet, in all my dealings with family, friends, coworkers, strangers I simply don't see any glimmer of this.
What I do see is a complete absence of interest, awareness, knowledge of authentic Catholicism.
Despite the fact that we live in an age of unprecedented communication most people I encounter
are as remote or cut off from the true faith as some savage running about a Easter Island a thousand
years ago.
For those raised outside of the conciliar church their concept of Catholicism is that it's essentially an old
corrupt institution filled with kid touchers but back in the day they built some nice churches.
So, one of the most bitter fruits of Vatican II is this perception that in turn creates indifference or hostility
in the minds of those who were raised agnostic, atheist, or some other religion.
It seems like an unbreachable wall.
There comes a point in each person's life where they find their first love, discover their favorite band, favorite food.
I don't however see evidence where they are made privy to or their lives intersect with traditional Catholicism.
Now if it is difficult enough to be saved when you do possess the faith, how do these others have a hope in hell?
What am I missing?

Stubborn · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2025, 12:06:57 PM »

Quote from: VerdenFell on March 10, 2025, 11:14:05 AM

What I do see is a complete absence of interest, awareness, knowledge of authentic Catholicism.
Despite the fact that we live in an age of unprecedented communication most people I encounter
are as remote or cut off from the true faith as some savage running about a Easter Island a thousand
years ago.

In a word, the people don't know because people do not want to know. Every single person makes a very deliberate choice to either know, or to "not know." I find it remarkable but the choice you were faced with making, is the same choice I was faced with making, is the same choice all people are faced with making. We are no different in that regard.

OABrownson1876 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2025, 01:01:07 PM »

Quote from: VerdenFell on March 10, 2025, 11:14:05 AM

I've only been a Traditional Catholic for a few years, having been raised in the novus ordo.
It's been a steep learning curve as one can imagine. To give you one small example,
Thomas Aquinas was never mentioned once in the twelve odd years I attended private
"Catholic" schools.
I have subsequently done a quite a bit of studying on my own: reading, listening to sermons and talks by a lot of
trad and sede priests and bishops.
Although I do accept ALL the teachings of the Church there is one which seems to cause me the
most doubt. I have heard Bp Williamson and others repeat on many occasions that God provides
each person with the necessary graces to save their soul.
Yet, in all my dealings with family, friends, coworkers, strangers I simply don't see any glimmer of this.
What I do see is a complete absence of interest, awareness, knowledge of authentic Catholicism.
Despite the fact that we live in an age of unprecedented communication most people I encounter
are as remote or cut off from the true faith as some savage running about a Easter Island a thousand
years ago.
For those raised outside of the conciliar church their concept of Catholicism is that it's essentially an old
corrupt institution filled with kid touchers but back in the day they built some nice churches.
So, one of the most bitter fruits of Vatican II is this perception that in turn creates indifference or hostility
in the minds of those who were raised agnostic, atheist, or some other religion.
It seems like an unbreachable wall.
There comes a point in each person's life where they find their first love, discover their favorite band, favorite food.
I don't however see evidence where they are made privy to or their lives intersect with traditional Catholicism.
Now if it is difficult enough to be saved when you do possess the faith, how do these others have a hope in hell?
What am I missing?

By your own testimony you give evidence of the fact that God gives sufficient grace to every man. Not once were you ever introduced to the Angel of the Schools, St. Thomas. His complete works are 25 volumes, and not once did any of your teachers introduce you to St. Thomas. No, you did not go to Catholic schools. You went to schools run by a bunch of apostate heretics. Welcome to Traddie Land, it is a bunch of fun!

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2025, 01:12:11 PM »

A few points to remember:

1. Every person/soul is different and God deals with each person differently. You can't expect to "see" all that God is doing/prodding in each person.
2. Each person's "conversion" story/timeline is different. Some people need a longer time; some a shorter time.
3. Salvation is a supernatural mystery and God knew from all eternity the minute details of each person's life; His offering of salvation will be both merciful and Just.
4. At the General Judgment, all that God has done to each individual will be made known. And all will see His actions and how each person accepted/rejected grace.
5. The old saying "Grace builds on nature" is the biggest explanation of all of this.

a. A person who is living a life of sin (with no or little effort to improve) will be given less graces concerning religion, than one who is trying to live morally.
b. This is because God does "not cast pearls before swine"; He does not waste spiritual things on unspiritual persons.
c. Many people damn themselves due to immoral lives and the rejecting of the natural law. If they reject basic morality, this is an implicit rejection of religion altogether.
d. Those who try to live by the natural law (which is written on all men's hearts) then God will give them graces to grow in religion.

songbird · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2025, 01:45:14 PM »

God has Graces for anyone, "might" they accept. this is the catch, so to say. The book, The True Story of Vatican Council, by Cardinal Manning is a very good read. He explains, defines, the Graces/Gifts of the Holy Ghost, "might" the Pope....

After Pope Leo XIII experienced Satan and Christ have an encounter, Satan wanting more powers and time. Christ said, I will permit you have more time and powers. I can do so much more, says Christ. (1874) So, Pope Leo XIII and Cardinal Manning and magestrium had Vatican I Council Infallibility of Pope.

It was discussed, that nomination and election of pope is a form of infallibility. BUT can an elected Pope, go wrong in his pontificate? answer is yes. Some people have "myth" or opinion that the pope has the Holy Ghost , like the pope can do not wrong. BUT Cardinal Manning and magestrium decided on using the word "might" about 9 times in the definition of Infalllibility.

When you address your family and others, by example and etc. that is Graces for these people. Then Might they take on these Graces. All Free Will which is the Love of God. It is a pity. Pity was the word used by Pius VII, when Napoleon took him on, exiled the Pope. Napoleon said to Pope Pius VII, "you hate me". And the Pope replied, "No, I pity you". Did Napoleon take on these Graces?

St Giles · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2025, 04:30:18 PM »

How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! (Matthew 7:14)

If few find it, how many fewer enter in and persevere to the end?

The rarest things are highly sought after and considered most precious.

All would be so clear if only we knew God's thought and ways. Who would have thought just 1 cell of the human body could be so complex, let alone all of creation and whatever God's plan is for it. Surely His plan is perfectly just and overflowing with mercy and freely given abundance. Is there any greater work, perhaps not even creation itself, than God becoming man and taking upon Himself the punishment that we His lowly creatures deserve for having offended Him, who is infinite and most unworthy of offence? I don't think there could be any greater good, because much more mercy would involve a severe lack of justice, which has already been far exceeded. That so many don't give the slightest thought or effort to learn more about Jesus is both a great mystery and their own fault. And if anyone can willfully or negligently cause others to reject Christ or be careless and biased against anything Catholic, perhaps we who know better can do something by good works, especially by prayer and the sacraments, to cause others to accept the true faith. It would be an act worthy of the children of God to do the works of God; out of goodness obtaining the mercy and grace for the conversion of sinners. Though, I don't think we should expect the work of conversion to be attributed to ourselves, because it is the work of Christ, which is why you can show people the truth, and they blindly and foolishly reject it. Let us often and fervently ask the Father through His son, through His mother and the saints, who now worthily stand in the presence of God, to grant others the grace of a perfect and lasting conversion.

The path to salvation starts with humility.