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Author Topic: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism  (Read 2761 times)

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Online AnthonyPadua

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Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
« on: October 16, 2024, 12:44:37 AM »
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  • Seeing this post and some others had me thinking. So I am just going to express some things, feel free to correct anything or add your opinions.


    Females love and need masculine presence.
    What is the proper definition and understanding for masculinity and femininity? When thinking of a 'masculine presence' I might immediately think of a stereotypical 'macho man' but not every man has the frame, mass and personality to fit that criteria, the same applies to a typical feminine woman. I've seen Lad (or was it someone else?) say that a man is someone who puts their reason first, this makes sense from a Catholic perspective, though I'm not sure if he was referring to man as in human or man as in male. Likewise a man who uses his reason and doesn't compromise against God may not by physically 'masculine', have an introverted personality and only speak when necessary, how would you know if he had a 'masculine presence'? And if a women is extroverted and likes to talk and tends to be on the louder side how can see have a 'feminine presence'?

    Regarding dominance this seems to do with recognising and accepting the order that God has made. That Adam was made more perfect than Eve, with the female nature being made inferior to the male nature. A male might not exert dominance and assertiveness in public or towards women who aren't his spouse but at home this may be different, but then would he really have a 'masculine presence'? Since in public he doesn't might not express those qualities. But dominance cannot be disordinate to God. A perfect example of disordinate dominance is with secular women, the most popular books for secular women is smut, filth which portrays an attractive male asserting a disordinate dominance over a women (though it also highlights that women do recognise their inferior nature and want a 'real man' to treat them as such, though in this case it's disordered). It's the difference between a kind and loving husband treating his wife as a woman made in the image and likeness of God whilst still retaining the authority, assertiveness and dominance as the man, the leader vs degrading and treating a woman like a whore. Proper order between a man and women is normal and necessary for a healthy relationship and I'll quote again "Females love and need masculine presence". It's the difference between leading as a man vs dragging/forcing. To lead still requires someone to follow willingly.


    A perfect example of a gentle and loving man who is dominant and assertive is our Lord. Throughout the gospels you will see Him handle both men and women, enemies and allies in the most perfect, optimal and orderly manner.


    Feminism appears to me to be an attack on Christ by the denial of God's order. Those who say/believe that men and women are equal are feminists and in reality deny God, because to deny the order that God has made is to deny God. Secular men who do not recognise or accept this order come on both ends of the extreme, from men who degrade women, to simps who extol women. It's no surprise that a women who is degraded as a whore becomes a whore because it is the women's nature to follow. If she is led to become a degenerate then who can be surprised when the outcome occurs? On the other hand women who deny God's order also go crazy and most do not live happy and fulfilling lives. In denying men the basic dignity and respect they are supposed to have as per natural order you are left with women being led straight into hell (by you know who) dragging everyone around them with them. The disorerded men exacerbate this problem. Interestingly these women are happy to submit themselves to men they find attractive yet for the other men they will not give the same respect and obedience.  There are plenty of testimonies online of feminist women expressing natural feminine behaviour when they come across a 'real man'. Yet they do not know nor understand what a real man is because their perspective is based on a perverse denial of God's order, their 'real man' is sorely judged on physical attractiveness and disordered dominance.


    Now I cannot make any statement regarding tradition Catholics because I have little experience as a traditional Catholic and my local trads are small in number and their business isn't my business (don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong). But I have heard from other users here that even trad circles have similar problems to the secular world, like the infamous 80/20 rule, or men not being men (whatever that means), disorderly families, though this many be outliers and not the general rule.

    So I would like to hear others thoughts on these matters. This information will be useful in preparing me to become a better husband and father when the time comes.

    Online AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #1 on: October 16, 2024, 01:56:03 AM »
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  • But dominance cannot be disordinate to God. A perfect example of disordinate dominance is with secular women, the most popular books for secular women is smut, filth which portrays an attractive male asserting a disordinate dominance over a women (though it also highlights that women do recognise their inferior nature and want a 'real man' to treat them as such, though in this case it's disordered).


    Also I don't think some understand how available bad smut books are for girls, even young guys under 14 are greatly effected. Important video on this. The comment section is very revealing.


    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #2 on: October 16, 2024, 01:30:08 PM »
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  • Also I don't think some understand how available bad smut books are for girls, even young guys under 14 are greatly effected. Important video on this. The comment section is very revealing.

    She's a protestant girl talking to other protestant and/or worldly girls. For a young Catholic man, the video itself is visually suggestive with numerous instances that'd lead to averting the eyes. The fact that she thinks it's OK to include so many of these images sort of sends a mixed message.

    These videos and their comment sections are a form of doomscrolling for young single Catholics whose sincere goal is the vocation of marriage. 

    Better to work on improving your own practical skills that you'll need later, cultivating a like-minded and right-living social circle IRL, and maintaining a positive readiness for whomever might have strolled by unnoticed while you were preoccupied with these videos! ::)
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline M1913

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #3 on: October 16, 2024, 01:36:06 PM »
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  • She's a protestant girl talking to other protestant and/or worldly girls. For a young Catholic man, the video itself is visually suggestive with numerous instances that'd lead to averting the eyes. The fact that she thinks it's OK to include so many of these images sort of sends a mixed message.

    These videos and their comment sections are a form of doomscrolling for young single Catholics whose sincere goal is the vocation of marriage.

    Better to work on improving your own practical skills that you'll need later, cultivating a like-minded and right-living social circle IRL, and maintaining a positive readiness for whomever might have strolled by unnoticed while you were preoccupied with these videos! ::)
    Great advice.

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #4 on: October 16, 2024, 02:15:56 PM »
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  • Seeing this post and some others had me thinking. So I am just going to express some things, feel free to correct anything or add your opinions.
    What is the proper definition and understanding for masculinity and femininity? When thinking of a 'masculine presence' I might immediately think of a stereotypical 'macho man' but not every man has the frame, mass and personality to fit that criteria, the same applies to a typical feminine woman. I've seen Lad (or was it someone else?) say that a man is someone who puts their reason first, this makes sense from a Catholic perspective, though I'm not sure if he was referring to man as in human or man as in male. Likewise a man who uses his reason and doesn't compromise against God may not by physically 'masculine', have an introverted personality and only speak when necessary, how would you know if he had a 'masculine presence'? And if a women is extroverted and likes to talk and tends to be on the louder side how can see have a 'feminine presence'?

    Regarding dominance this seems to do with recognising and accepting the order that God has made. That Adam was made more perfect than Eve, with the female nature being made inferior to the male nature. A male might not exert dominance and assertiveness in public or towards women who aren't his spouse but at home this may be different, but then would he really have a 'masculine presence'? Since in public he doesn't might not express those qualities. But dominance cannot be disordinate to God. A perfect example of disordinate dominance is with secular women, the most popular books for secular women is smut, filth which portrays an attractive male asserting a disordinate dominance over a women (though it also highlights that women do recognise their inferior nature and want a 'real man' to treat them as such, though in this case it's disordered). It's the difference between a kind and loving husband treating his wife as a woman made in the image and likeness of God whilst still retaining the authority, assertiveness and dominance as the man, the leader vs degrading and treating a woman like a whore. Proper order between a man and women is normal and necessary for a healthy relationship and I'll quote again "Females love and need masculine presence". It's the difference between leading as a man vs dragging/forcing. To lead still requires someone to follow willingly.

    Man is more perfect?  I am not sure that is the right statement.  If man was more perfect, then Adam would not have been tempted by Eve.
     
     Man was made with a heavy dose of reason and logic.  Women were made with a heavy dose of emotion.  Men can navigate the logic part of life better: government, leadership, etc.  Women can navigate the social emotional side: raising children, epikiea (maybe), emotional details, personality differences, etc.
     
     We were both made in the image of God, when we marry and have children we become one.  This is why it is important to know who you are and what you are missing and hopefully find that in your spouse.


    I think women want protection and safety = masculine presence. Thoughts?

    I think men want submission and docility = feminism presence. Thoughts?



    A perfect example of a gentle and loving man who is dominant and assertive is our Lord. Throughout the gospels you will see Him handle both men and women, enemies and allies in the most perfect, optimal and orderly manner.


    Feminism appears to me to be an attack on Christ by the denial of God's order. Those who say/believe that men and women are equal are feminists and in reality deny God, because to deny the order that God has made is to deny God. Secular men who do not recognise or accept this order come on both ends of the extreme, from men who degrade women, to simps who extol women. It's no surprise that a women who is degraded as a whore becomes a whore because it is the women's nature to follow. If she is led to become a degenerate then who can be surprised when the outcome occurs? On the other hand women who deny God's order also go crazy and most do not live happy and fulfilling lives. In denying men the basic dignity and respect they are supposed to have as per natural order you are left with women being led straight into hell (by you know who) dragging everyone around them with them. The disorerded men exacerbate this problem. Interestingly these women are happy to submit themselves to men they find attractive yet for the other men they will not give the same respect and obedience.  There are plenty of testimonies online of feminist women expressing natural feminine behaviour when they come across a 'real man'. Yet they do not know nor understand what a real man is because their perspective is based on a perverse denial of God's order, their 'real man' is sorely judged on physical attractiveness and disordered dominance.

    From my perspective Feminism was a result of something.  Never before in the history of the world did you have women raising up to run things, so why did this start happening in the early 1900s.  One women were coming off the Protestant Victorian Age, which treated women more like property.  Two we had two wars (WWI and WWII) that left many women scared and alone.  So women felt that they needed to act like men and protect themselves. Thoughts?

    Now I cannot make any statement regarding tradition Catholics because I have little experience as a traditional Catholic and my local trads are small in number and their business isn't my business (don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong). But I have heard from other users here that even trad circles have similar problems to the secular world, like the infamous 80/20 rule, or men not being men (whatever that means), disorderly families, though this many be outliers and not the general rule.

    So I would like to hear others thoughts on these matters. This information will be useful in preparing me to become a better husband and father when the time comes.
    The biggest suggestion I can give to you is to learn how to become a protector.  Open doors for women, even if they yell at you. 

    Side story:  My husband is an intellectual Mathematician, so not the outdoorsy type, but one of my fondest memories of him is rushing to open doors for me and another girl (The girl was totally a feminist and I can do it myself type, which was the result from severe trauma as a child)  She got mad at him.  He absolutely did not care.

    Stand up for a woman when someone is treating her poorly, even if she is acting atrociously and deserves to be yelled at, if you stop the yelling she can regroup and let her emotions go  (I know I am explaining this poorly).  Listen and try to understand her.  She totally speaks a different language and if you listen and try to understand from her perspective, she will realize that she might have been overemotional.  Men should learn how to guide women through the emotion instead of just joining them in their emotion or telling them not to feel.  Women will respect you more for it.  Thoughts?


    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #5 on: October 18, 2024, 06:01:26 AM »
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  • Maybe the mother of young woman watched too many soaps, Mary Tyler Moore or That Girl. They are brainwashed to be rude.  If they were taught manners, they would say thank you. 

    May God bless you and keep you

    Online AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #6 on: November 10, 2024, 09:44:47 PM »
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  • Man is more perfect?  I am not sure that is the right statement.  If man was more perfect, then Adam would not have been tempted by Eve.
    Pic related from Augustine's Confessions Book 13 chapter 32. My expression may not have been apt, St Augustine does it better.



    I think most modern women do not recognise God's order, to quote, "as to the bodily sex she would be subject to the male sex", hence feminism is a rejection of God by rejecting His order. (And also rejecting the order of the House, God/Christ > Husband > Wife > Children)

    Adam eating the apple is an interesting thing to think about, since he had a perfect nature and not a fallen one unlike us he surely knew what he was doing, yet he still choose to sin and betray God. So why did he do it? Perhaps he knew that God would save his wife through Christ if he did so? I wouldn't say that Adam sinned with the intention that God would save him because from what I understand the devil and judas both sinned assuming on God's mercy that He would have mercy on them, and this only accelerated satan's fall and solidified judas's damnation as they abused the Divine Mercy. So at least if it was for Eve's sake it would have been more charitable but this cope because you can't do evil to do good. This is just speculation and I don't really know why Adam chose to sin, interesting nevertheless.

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #7 on: November 10, 2024, 10:13:17 PM »
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  • What is the difference between quality of nature (which seems to say their equal) and bodily sex (which man has authority over woman)?
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine


    Online AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Masculine presence, dominance and feminism
    « Reply #8 on: November 10, 2024, 10:26:46 PM »
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  • What is the difference between quality of nature (which seems to say their equal) and bodily sex (which man has authority over woman)?
    I don't know but I presume it has to do with the body, i.e is male and female only qualities of the body and not the soul? So then to say female nature would be referring to the flesh and not the soul, which would make male nature > female nature. 

    So both men and women are equal in terms of their soul, being made in the image and likeness of God, which is reason and will (but in the image Augustine calls it the quality of nature, perhaps referring to the rational nature?). But their bodies is where things are unequal, as per the order God has made. I'm not certain on the details maybe some more educated users can chime in.