Author Topic: Married outside the Church but still considered valid? (Read 1937 times)

Briget · « **on:** April 22, 2015, 10:28:26 PM »

A friend related to me that she was Baptized Catholic, and when she went to marry, she asked her uncle (a Bishop, 1983 time frame) to officiate the wedding in a Protestant Church. He said he could not, but instead, did a rather formal "Blessing" on their union (not a marriage ceremony though) that somehow allowed all her family to attend the wedding, AND, that the Church would recognize the ceremony as valid.

I hate to bother my priest unless I have too, so thought to ask you all- is it even possible for this to be ligit, or was this another case of "abuse" among the clergy?

Thanks for any thoughts you may have,

Briget

songbird · « **Reply #1 on:** April 22, 2015, 10:55:02 PM »

A baptized catholic who marries outside the catholic church is excommunication for that person. So, can it be blessed? No. The Bishop of 1983, is New Order, and is not acting as a Catholic. The Bishop should be excommunicated as well, hm?!

poche · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2015, 11:39:54 PM »

If you want your marriage to be recognized by the Catholic Church this is the book of rules that you will have to follow.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

poche · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2015, 11:41:07 PM »

From the Code of Canon Law;

2. If grave diffculties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having consulted the ordinary of the place in which the marriage is celebrated and with some public form of celebration for validity. It is for the conference of bishops to establish norms by which the aforementioned dispensation is to be granted in a uniform manner.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P41.HTM

songbird · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2015, 02:29:24 PM »

Grave difficulties: If you are out in no man's land and you want to marry, hm? War maybe, Grave difficulties. This marriage, which mentions no problems, is a problem.

GottmitunsAlex · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2015, 03:40:49 PM »

Oh, come one. Go to your local diocesan priest, they'll start up the "radical sanation" process.
In 1 year, your union will be recognized. Even without the consent of the "non-catholic" lover.
You'll get your decree of Radical Sanation in a jiffy by the diocesan tribunal!

It's the way they are joining protestants and NO Catholics together.

It's a joke.

Dolores · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2015, 04:05:21 PM »

The local Ordinary (diocesan bishop) has always had the right and ability to dispense with certain requirements for marriage and grant dispensations. In the pre-VII days, however, this was rarely done and saved for exceptional circuмstances.

If you regard the NO bishop as valid, then I suppose he had a right to do what he did, but it doesn't sound like it would have been done pre-VII.

GottmitunsAlex · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2015, 04:21:41 PM »

A 1995 SSPX report.
The statistics are interesting. In 1968 there were in the U.S. a total of 338 annulments. In 1992 there were no less than 59,030, that is one hundred and seventy-five times as many. Another interesting figure. The total number of annulments in the Catholic Church world wide in 1992 was 76,286, which means that no less than 75% of all annulments were from the U.S., that is from a little over 5% of the world's Catholic population. Moreover, not only do one in two Catholic marriages here in the States end up with a divorce, but one in five is officially annulled, 90% of the demands for annulment being successful. What do these figures tell us about the seriousness of such annulment processes, especially when the vast majority are granted for purely psychological reasons, namely lack of maturity, as if young age were sufficient to render one incapable of entering into a life long contract? What does that tell us about the authority of Pope John-Paul II, who has several times spoken out against such abuses, but without ever bringing any sanctions against or closing of the tribunals which allow such a fraud to continue?

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poche · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2015, 11:09:20 PM »

Quote from: Dolores

The local Ordinary (diocesan bishop) has always had the right and ability to dispense with certain requirements for marriage and grant dispensations. In the pre-VII days, however, this was rarely done and saved for exceptional circuмstances.

If you regard the NO bishop as valid, then I suppose he had a right to do what he did, but it doesn't sound like it would have been done pre-VII.

In the first part of the 19th century the Vatican made the ruling that in areas where the acts of the council of Trent had not been promulgated then the couple could make their vows privately and their marriage would be valid.

poche · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2015, 11:11:51 PM »

Quote from: GottmitunsAlex

Oh, come one. Go to your local diocesan priest, they'll start up the "radical sanation" process.
In 1 year, your union will be recognized. Even without the consent of the "non-catholic" lover.
You'll get your decree of Radical Sanation in a jiffy by the diocesan tribunal!

It's the way they are joining protestants and NO Catholics together.

It's a joke.

No one was talking about having a divorce or asking for an annulment.

Briget · « **Reply #10 on:** April 26, 2015, 12:37:28 PM »

Quote from: Dolores

The local Ordinary (diocesan bishop) has always had the right and ability to dispense with certain requirements for marriage and grant dispensations. In the pre-VII days, however, this was rarely done and saved for exceptional circuмstances.

If you regard the NO bishop as valid, then I suppose he had a right to do what he did, but it doesn't sound like it would have been done pre-VII.

Thanks for all the replies w info, good link poche sent. I think the above illustrates my dilemma of telling her anything at the moment. I just do not have the theological knowledge to guide her. But I will throw in my .02 that I reserve the validity to higher authorities, should she ever want to pursue it.

Briget

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2015, 12:49:43 PM »

Quote from: poche

From the Code of Canon Law;

2. If grave diffculties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having consulted the ordinary of the place in which the marriage is celebrated and with some public form of celebration for validity. It is for the conference of bishops to establish norms by which the aforementioned dispensation is to be granted in a uniform manner.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P41.HTM

Grave difficulties is a mild way to describe the post-Vatican II church and its cultural milleiu.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2015, 12:51:18 PM »

Quote from: Briget

Quote from: Dolores
The local Ordinary (diocesan bishop) has always had the right and ability to dispense with certain requirements for marriage and grant dispensations. In the pre-VII days, however, this was rarely done and saved for exceptional circuмstances.

If you regard the NO bishop as valid, then I suppose he had a right to do what he did, but it doesn't sound like it would have been done pre-VII.

Thanks for all the replies w info, good link poche sent. I think the above illustrates my dilemma of telling her anything at the moment. I just do not have the theological knowledge to guide her. But I will throw in my .02 that I reserve the validity to higher authorities, should she ever want to pursue it.

Briget

Talk it over with your parish priest also.

:cheers: