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Author Topic: Marriage question  (Read 43946 times)

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Offline Christo Rege

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Marriage question
« on: January 28, 2025, 02:35:46 AM »
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  • Our family is currently going through a potential marriage at this time. However, the man is a baptized Catholic but the girl was a Protestant. They entered a civil marriage of some kind, “just for legal papers” to claim they were married. The two of them are no longer together. 

    This man wishes to marry one of our family members. But she will not go through with the marriage unless she knows this “civil marriage” was invalid in the eyes of God. He was never married before a Catholic priest when he was living with the Protestant girl. Which is key to note in this situation.  

    We do have priests involved at this time to see about the validity. 

     Thanks if anyone could give my family some insight on this matter. 
    “The good God does not need years to accomplish His work of Love in a soul; one ray from His Heart can, in an instant, make His flower bloom for eternity.” 
    ~ St. Therese of Lisieux

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #1 on: January 28, 2025, 04:25:56 AM »
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  • Our family is currently going through a potential marriage at this time. However, the man is a baptized Catholic but the girl was a Protestant. They entered a civil marriage of some kind, “just for legal papers” to claim they were married. The two of them are no longer together.

    This man wishes to marry one of our family members. But she will not go through with the marriage unless she knows this “civil marriage” was invalid in the eyes of God. He was never married before a Catholic priest when he was living with the Protestant girl. Which is key to note in this situation. 

    We do have priests involved at this time to see about the validity.

     Thanks if anyone could give my family some insight on this matter.
    While it was very likely the marriage was invalid due to lack of proper form, it is presumed to be valid until it has been investigated by the proper authorities.  The man is not free to marry until he receives a declaration of nullity. The process for getting this can be different in different places, so you need to talk to your priest about that.   Often it involves filling in a bunch of paper work and sending it to a marriage tribunal and then waiting for the case to be processed.  Normally, the couple should not even get engaged until the declaration of nullity.


    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #2 on: January 28, 2025, 05:51:31 AM »
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  • Our family is currently going through a potential marriage at this time. However, the man is a baptized Catholic but the girl was a Protestant. They entered a civil marriage of some kind, “just for legal papers” to claim they were married. The two of them are no longer together.

    This man wishes to marry one of our family members. But she will not go through with the marriage unless she knows this “civil marriage” was invalid in the eyes of God. He was never married before a Catholic priest when he was living with the Protestant girl. Which is key to note in this situation. 

    We do have priests involved at this time to see about the validity.

     Thanks if anyone could give my family some insight on this matter.
    It sounds as if the marriage was likely invalid but you definitely need to have a good priest confirm this.  A friend of mine recently married a man who was in a similar situation but he was a Protestant after the priest confirmed the invalidity of the man's marriage.

    Praying for your sister and your family. 😇🙏
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #3 on: January 28, 2025, 08:10:24 AM »
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  • Normally, the couple should not even get engaged until the declaration of nullity.

    To be more precise, they should not even date until the declaration.  No matter how likely it is that the marriage was not valid, the man is currently married until this is proven.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #4 on: January 28, 2025, 09:04:03 AM »
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  • While it was very likely the marriage was invalid due to lack of proper form, it is presumed to be valid until it has been investigated by the proper authorities.  The man is not free to marry until he receives a declaration of nullity. The process for getting this can be different in different places, so you need to talk to your priest about that.  Often it involves filling in a bunch of paper work and sending it to a marriage tribunal and then waiting for the case to be processed.  Normally, the couple should not even get engaged until the declaration of nullity.

    Doesn't seem as though this should be too difficult.  The man was a Catholic, ergo bound to marry according to canonical form, either that, or dispensed from it.  This could easily be accomplished through docuмents and affidavits, though I'm not sure how you go about proving a negative, viz. that there was no dispensation recorded anywhere. 

    The Catholic Church isn't well-organized enough to have some kind of central registry or database of marriages and dispensations, and there are thousands of dioceses in the world.  A sect such as the Latter-day Saints [sic] would keep such records and have them easily available --- say whatever else you will about them, they're nothing if not efficient --- but that's just not how we roll.  (It took an act of Congress, figuratively speaking, to determine whether, when, where, and by whom my father's thirty Gregorian Masses were offered by the SSPX, and though I obtained verification after much effort, I understand that they finally threw up their hands and said they weren't accepting any more Mass stipends for the time being.  I had a similar experience with another traditionalist chapel in Florida when I attempted to have a Mass offered on the anniversary of his death.)


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #5 on: January 28, 2025, 09:18:50 AM »
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  • Doesn't seem as though this should be too difficult.  The man was a Catholic, ergo bound to marry according to canonical form, either that, or dispensed from it.  This could easily be accomplished through docuмents and affidavits, though I'm not sure how you go about proving a negative, viz. that there was no dispensation recorded anywhere. 

    Annulments due to lack of form are typically straightforward and relatively quick.  The parish at which a person is baptized is supposed to keep records of any subsequent Sacraments.  If there were a dispensation, the marriage would be recorded there.  If the parish records don't show a marriage that basically proves it did not have correct canonical form.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #6 on: January 28, 2025, 09:49:41 AM »
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  • Annulments due to lack of form are typically straightforward and relatively quick.  The parish at which a person is baptized is supposed to keep records of any subsequent Sacraments.  If there were a dispensation, the marriage would be recorded there.  If the parish records don't show a marriage that basically proves it did not have correct canonical form.

    Okay, I didn't think about that part, that is, one's parish of record (where they were baptized) having all of that information.  I can only hope that this system is as efficient as it's supposed to be.  Would be nice if all of this information were in some consolidated database.

    I struggle to understand why a faithful Catholic would ever have to seek dispensation from canonical form.  If one's prospective spouse refuses to marry in the Church, preferring their own sect's ministrations, is that really someone you want to marry in the first place?  And the $64 question, what if you have children, you die or become incapacitated, and you're looking to your spouse to bring up your children in the Faith?

    I can't speak for women (who seem to be more open to marrying non-Catholic spouses, guess they think "maybe he'll convert in time"), but no faithful Catholic man ever said "I am willing to entrust my non-Catholic wife with the Catholic upbringing of our children if I'm no longer around to provide it".

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #7 on: January 28, 2025, 09:50:59 AM »
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  • Doesn't seem as though this should be too difficult.  The man was a Catholic, ergo bound to marry according to canonical form, either that, or dispensed from it.  This could easily be accomplished through docuмents and affidavits, though I'm not sure how you go about proving a negative, viz. that there was no dispensation recorded anywhere. 

    The Catholic Church isn't well-organized enough to have some kind of central registry or database of marriages and dispensations, and there are thousands of dioceses in the world.  A sect such as the Latter-day Saints [sic] would keep such records and have them easily available --- say whatever else you will about them, they're nothing if not efficient --- but that's just not how we roll.  (It took an act of Congress, figuratively speaking, to determine whether, when, where, and by whom my father's thirty Gregorian Masses were offered by the SSPX, and though I obtained verification after much effort, I understand that they finally threw up their hands and said they weren't accepting any more Mass stipends for the time being.  I had a similar experience with another traditionalist chapel in Florida when I attempted to have a Mass offered on the anniversary of his death.)

    The SSPX is still not accepting Mass stipends, at least not unless they are given personally to the priest by whomever wishes to have a Mass offered:

    https://sspx.org/en/request-mass-intention-30124


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #8 on: January 28, 2025, 10:09:58 AM »
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  • .I struggle to understand why a faithful Catholic would ever have to seek dispensation from canonical form.  If one's prospective spouse refuses to marry in the Church, preferring their own sect's ministrations, is that really someone you want to marry in the first place? And the $64 question, what if you have children, you die or become incapacitated, and you're looking to your spouse to bring up your children in the Faith?

    When my husband and I first got engaged, I was not yet a Catholic or even seriously considering it.  But I did end up converting around a month before the wedding.  Unfortunately, such cases are the minority and it is more often spiritually harmful.  When people are young and in love, it is hard for them to make prudent decisions.  They leap into a mixed marriage, hoping that somehow they will be part of the minority where it works.

    Deep down, I think that parents should arrange marriages and that young people should not be making such an important decision on their own.:smirk:

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #9 on: January 28, 2025, 01:02:44 PM »
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  • Deep down, I think that parents should arrange marriages and that young people should not be making such an important decision on their own.:smirk:
    I think that makes a lot of sense.  I have the feeling, too.  Or at least the parents should help by making introductions with suitable choices.
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #10 on: January 29, 2025, 09:19:58 PM »
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  • I did not read here what the reason was for the split, reason?  And read all docuмents on file. Anyone can write reasons for not being for the marriage.



    Offline Christo Rege

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    Re: Marriage question
    « Reply #11 on: January 29, 2025, 10:34:28 PM »
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  • The reason for the split was because the girl did not wish to be with a man who suffered a permanent accident. It was too humiliating. According to HIPAA, it’d be best not to share what his condition is. 
    “The good God does not need years to accomplish His work of Love in a soul; one ray from His Heart can, in an instant, make His flower bloom for eternity.” 
    ~ St. Therese of Lisieux