Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: McFiggly on September 12, 2015, 08:47:40 AM
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What is the nature and extent of man's authority over woman?
Where does man derive this authority? (I'm assuming it is God/Nature).
What are the differences between the authority a husband has over his wife and a "boyfriend" has over his "girlfriend"?
How should a man assert this authority properly and when should he assert it?
Is there a way of doing this without scandalizing modern people?
I want to know the difference between the Catholic relations between man and women and pagan woman domination on the one hand and modern emasculation on the other. What are the relevant biblical verses and are there any texts on this subject approved by the Church?
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I am not aware of any Catholic teaching that "man" in general has any authority over "woman" in general. A particular man may have authority of a particular woman but that authority comes from an authority of position rather than of sex.
The husband has authority over his wife, but this is an authority of position. I, as a husband, have no authority over other women to my knowledge. This authority is explained in multiple epistles of St. Paul and, I believe, one of the epistles of St. Peter. I think you can find this information in the Roman Catechism as well.
The very idea of "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" is anathema to Catholicism. Such relationships encourage divorce as they condition people to the idea that romantic relationships (for that is what the boyfriend/girlfriend relationship implies) can be thrown away and dissolved for any reason. The boyfriend has no authority over a girlfriend. In fact, both are merely placing themselves in grave occasion of sin.
The husband is to assert his authority over his wife with love. In fact, he is commanded to love his wife while the wife is commanded to merely submit to her husband. I'm not sure how this relationship can be a scandal to others, modern or otherwise.
In any other circuмstance, people have authority over others due to position. Frankly, there have been Catholic Queens who have ruled whole nations. So it is possible for a woman to have authority over men.
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God created not only the family, but the entire world a civilization based on patriarchy.
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What is the nature and extent of man's authority over woman?
Where does man derive this authority? (I'm assuming it is God/Nature).
What are the differences between the authority a husband has over his wife and a "boyfriend" has over his "girlfriend"?
How should a man assert this authority properly and when should he assert it?
Is there a way of doing this without scandalizing modern people?
I want to know the difference between the Catholic relations between man and women and pagan woman domination on the one hand and modern emasculation on the other. What are the relevant biblical verses and are there any texts on this subject approved by the Church?
. Look around you. Everything in this world was created by a Man. We build civilizations. Feminism destroys them and They know it. Women are a gift To Man From God. But they are not our equals. Look also at any world math competition or science field. They are almost always represented by men. But we cannot do what they do either. We are creatures of logic while they are creatures of emotion. But the rest of your post is common sense. Scandalize? Who cares. Be a Man for heavens sake. Don't apologize for being one. Breezy your woman with live, care and respect and demand the same. Love, honor and protect
But it is God's design that all these men are born of and nurtured by woman. These men would simply not exist in the first place if it was not for mothers and wives. The Catholic religion, unlike the pagans or the protestants, make the proper distinctions between the sexes. Men and women both are created in the image and likeness of God and both genres have immortal souls to save. We are different creatures, of course, and most definitely have different roles to fulfill during this earthy exile, but we are equal in dignity in God 'eyes. These differences between the sexes should be celebrated, not hidden, but complimentary to one another. True Catholic manhood is chivalrous, and unlike brute paganism, reflects proper respect and honor due to women. Misogyny simply finds no place in true Catholic manhood.
It was Our Lady Mary, the Mother of God, who was chosen by the Almighty to embody and nurture His Son, the Savior of Humanity, and she is the one perfect creature who restores women to their proper place of dignity, after Eve's fall. Feminism no doubt, is a great diabolical distortion, one of the worst, if not the worst, evils of our hyper-egalitarian days brought by masons and Jєωs. “As women go, so goes society" this is why the Cultural Marxists encourage Feminism because, through corrupted women they can indirectly corrupt men and children too, and bring down the traditional family and the corruption and total moral degradation in the world today proves that the strategy has great effect.
Mc Fliggy, there is a book called "The Three Marks of Manhood: How to be Priest, Prophet and King of Your Family" by G.C. Dilsaver. In this book you may find the answer to your questions and how to restore a true Christian patriarchy, not pagan, or protestant.
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I am not aware of any Catholic teaching that "man" in general has any authority over "woman" in general. A particular man may have authority of a particular woman but that authority comes from an authority of position rather than of sex.
The husband has authority over his wife, but this is an authority of position. I, as a husband, have no authority over other women to my knowledge. This authority is explained in multiple epistles of St. Paul and, I believe, one of the epistles of St. Peter. I think you can find this information in the Roman Catechism as well.
The very idea of "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" is anathema to Catholicism. Such relationships encourage divorce as they condition people to the idea that romantic relationships (for that is what the boyfriend/girlfriend relationship implies) can be thrown away and dissolved for any reason. The boyfriend has no authority over a girlfriend. In fact, both are merely placing themselves in grave occasion of sin.
The husband is to assert his authority over his wife with love. In fact, he is commanded to love his wife while the wife is commanded to merely submit to her husband. I'm not sure how this relationship can be a scandal to others, modern or otherwise.
In any other circuмstance, people have authority over others due to position. Frankly, there have been Catholic Queens who have ruled whole nations. So it is possible for a woman to have authority over men.
Spoken like a true Catholic man, TKGS.
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I am not aware of any Catholic teaching that "man" in general has any authority over "woman" in general. A particular man may have authority of a particular woman but that authority comes from an authority of position rather than of sex.
I would modify this in two ways.
Man in the universal sense, being the principle of woman, has authority over her. This natural priority does not give particular men direct authority over particular women unless, as you say, they have an authority of position. Here I note that husband and priest are but two positions of authority among many; one could think for instance of statesmen or policemen and other directing roles which in Catholic society could only be filled by men. On the other hand, the natural priority could directly manifest in exceptional, perhaps chaotic or life-threatening circuмstances, in which women in general should naturally defer to men of good will.
Second, in an organic society social relationships will reflect familial ones, since the society will be a kind of family writ large. The mores and manners that govern relationships between men and women, in general, will therefore be ritualized to evoke familial ones in which men of majority have the protectorship, and therefore a kind of authority. This is more of a ritual consideration dealing with manners, but it shouldn't be underestimated how these subtle evocations of profound realities serve to cultivate the emotions and ideas and loyalties of the people.
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I have to laugh when I read people extolling the greatness of society being built by men as evidence that men are to have natural authority over women. I think of all the great societies that were ruled by men: The Aztecs, the Incas, The Muhammadans, the Babylonians, every Pagan society of Europe, Africa, Asia... Even the one human society that existed immediately prior to the flood.
You get the picture. Every human society that has been headed by men has been absolutely depraved--until the society was ordered on the God-man, Jesus. When society is no longer governed by the moral truths of the Catholic Church, society literally goes to hell. The current Western society has declined in a sea of feminism, that is true. But that is certainly not why every non-Christian society is and always has been depraved.
As for taking cues from Lutherans and Calvinists, I'll let the heretics posting on this forum do that.
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"Absolutely depraved"? That's an odd choice of words.
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"Absolutely depraved"? That's an odd choice of words.
Do you have a better choice to describe the non-Christian societies that the earth has had over the centuries? I'm not sure why this choice is "odd".
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. The husband is to assert his authority over his wife with love. In fact, he is commanded to love his wife while the wife is commanded to merely submit to her husband. I'm not sure how this relationship can be a scandal to others, modern or otherwise.
To be even more specific, he is commanded to love his wife as Christ loves His church. I'm not sure how any wife would not submit to such a husband.
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"Absolutely depraved"? That's an odd choice of words.
Do you have a better choice to describe the non-Christian societies that the earth has had over the centuries? I'm not sure why this choice is "odd".
I question whether there is a single phrase that can accurately describe the moral caliber of all pre-Christian and non-Christian societies throughout time, from savage tribes to Greeks and Romans, as if there were no distinctions to be made because none of these societies had any natural goodness whatsoever, since I reject the Calvinist heresy of total depravity which your chosen phrase so closely resembles.
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"Absolutely depraved"? That's an odd choice of words.
Do you have a better choice to describe the non-Christian societies that the earth has had over the centuries? I'm not sure why this choice is "odd".
I question whether there is a single phrase that can accurately describe the moral caliber of all pre-Christian and non-Christian societies throughout time, from savage tribes to Greeks and Romans, as if there were no distinctions to be made because none of these societies had any natural goodness whatsoever, since I reject the Calvinist heresy of total depravity which your chosen phrase so closely resembles.
Ok. I really don't know anything about Calvinism so I didn't know this phrase closely resembles Calvinism.
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"Absolutely depraved"? That's an odd choice of words.
Do you have a better choice to describe the non-Christian societies that the earth has had over the centuries? I'm not sure why this choice is "odd".
I question whether there is a single phrase that can accurately describe the moral caliber of all pre-Christian and non-Christian societies throughout time, from savage tribes to Greeks and Romans, as if there were no distinctions to be made because none of these societies had any natural goodness whatsoever, since I reject the Calvinist heresy of total depravity which your chosen phrase so closely resembles.
Ok. I really don't know anything about Calvinism so I didn't know this phrase closely resembles Calvinism.
Calvin used a specious reading of St. Augustine to argue that because of original sin, men are incapable of anything good without God's grace.
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@Leila Beating women? It is Protestant to objectify women or to treat them as dumb animals.
Also, celibacy was instituted partially to keep priests in holiness.
The so-called "male chauvinism" is an inferior, beastly thing as God created us, humans as equal. Also, we should be equal in Christ...
but this cannot be possible in this sinful world where our rebellion against God has earned us some beastly attributes.
The role of women as mothers is not inferior and beastly, however.
The beastly "male chauvinism" was intended to be a punishment for taking the forbidden fruit... but there are remarkable women in the history of the Church.
But unity in Christ is simply not possible fully in this sinful world... and thus, we remain under curses.
And sometimes fleeing the punishment is worse. Like, Caesarian sections predispose children to a myriad of illnesses. Don't flame me as I do not oppose Caesarian sections.
And it seems like that we want to get back to Eden so badly but sometimes (or almost always) we do it without God, thus generating the opposite outcome. Feminism is the same oppression as the so-called "male chauvinism". And nudism just makes us more beastly.
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Sorry for double post, but as Catholics, we must realize the will of God and the unity in Christ as much as possible.
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You sound like my Wiccan acquintance on the celibacy thing.
Women are not slaves, but this does not mean that I'm anti-family. I read an article on VacTruth about a vaccine-damaged woman who had a relapse in her vaccine-induced arthritis due to eating junk food. She responded to this by quitting walking and treating her husband as a slave. As a result, their children grew up in a dysfunctional family and their daughter literally ran the house. Also, they had unsupervised TV time as a substitute to a normal family... this landed their daughter to a mental hospital.
God didn't order a harmony in family with the Fall of Adam. It was there in the beginning. I don't know how much of the Curse of Eve is eradicated, but it's still there.
Also, there are cases where the wife must take action (eg. the husband is a drunkard).
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Actually the patriarchal hierarchy of the family appears to be an infallible doctrine of the Church. in Casti Connubii, Pope Pius XI specifically characterizes the teaching on patriarchal hierarchy as an unchangeable law of God:
Pope Pius XI:
This order (the primacy of the husband over his wife and children, and the ready submission and willing obedience of the wife) was constituted by an authority higher than man's, that s, by the authority higher than man's, that is, by the authority and wisdom of God Himself, and neither the laws of the State nor the good pleasure of individuals can ever change it"
This is an authoritative statement in a papal encyclical addressed to all Bishops in the world. Of course, likewise, the husband is commanded to love his wife as his own body. The Apostle in Ephesians provides the basis for the hierarchy of marriage:
22 Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
23 Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:
26 That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life:
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy, and without blemish.
28 So also ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife, loveth himself.
29 For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, as also Christ doth the church:
30 Because we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh.
32 This is a great sacrament; but I speak in Christ and in the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular love his wife as himself: and let the wife fear her husband.
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Yes, I agree. Thank you for that.
A man beating his wife or daughter is un-Christlike on so many levels and its diabolically cowardly. How can a man be the head of the household and at the same time, use his status to hurt and injure the weak and people less powerful than him? It makes no sense.
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Well now, what you've just said is heresy JezusDeKoning.
Corporal discipline of all family members is the prerogative of the head of the family. Corporal discipline takes place in monasteries, convents, government, and finds its place fundamentally in the family.
The effeminate drive against it well.. what can one say but that it is based on the twisted feelings brought about by the corrupt rulers of the NWO who have upside down matriarchal families. Since matriarchal -- feeling of fallen people guided by demons triumphs over constructive self-sacrificing reason.
Various straw men are created against corporal discipline, i.e. using it excessively, in its wrong time and place, etc. But all of these things are not what it actually is, and is often necessary and good for.
'Folly is tied together in the heart of a child, and the rod of discipline shall drive it away.'
Proverbs 22:15 [discipline gives wisdom, removes folly]
'Withdraw not discipline from a child: for if thou shalt strike him with the rod, he shall not die.
Thou shalt strike him with the rod: and deliver his soul from hell.'
Proverbs 23:13-14 [withdrawn not from corporal discipline of children]
'Rod and rebuke giveth Wisdom: but the child, that is left to his own will, confoundeth his mother.'
Proverbs 29:15 [corporal discipline gives wisdom, without it, child rebels and confounds especially the mother of the family, (and too think of the Church)]
'My son, neglect not the discipline of our Lord: neither be thou wearied whiles thou art rebuked of him. For whom our Lord loveth, he chasteneth: and he scourgeth every child that he receiveth, Persevere ye in discipline. As unto children doth God offer himself to you. for what son is there, whom the father not correct? But if you be without discipline, whereof all be made partakers: then are you bastards, and not children.'
Hebrews 12:5-8
[So you see, you are a bastard, not part of the family of God, if you are not scourged, nor one who scourges when called for.]
'My son, cast not away the discipline of our Lord: neither do thou faint when thou art chastened of him: for whom our Lord loveth he chastiseth: and as a father in the son he pleaseth himself.'
Proverbs 3:11-12
'A whip for a horse, and a snaffle for an ass, and a rod on the back of the unwise.'
Proverbs 26:3 [those who lack wisdom, all in general, the rod is suitable for]
'They that trust in him, shall understand truth: and the faithful in love shall rest in him: because rest and peace is to his elect. But the impious according to the things which they have thought, shall have correption: which have neglected the just, & have revolted from our Lord. For he that rejecteth wisdom, and discipline, is unhappy: and their hope is vain, and labors without fruit and their works unprofitable. Their wives are senseless, and their children most wicked. Cursed is their creature. . .'
Wisdom 3:9-12, c.f. [without wisdom, without discipline, senseless wives, wicked children, cursed people and families]
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Well, heresy understood one way.
Of course there is violence and beating that is no good, just prompted by the passions. This is clearly distinguished from proper corporal discipline.